The Extinction inside our guts

[Erica P-G]

Really makes a person wonder how we can start turning this around, especially for us "westerners"....less bacteria is a bit disturbing, and we have brought this on ourselves, it's such a pity.


http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la ... paign=1428

[tex]

Erica,

It's not disturbing news for those of us who are not gut bacteria huggers. It's only concerning if you happen to mistakenly believe that the little freeloaders somehow actually provide a net benefit to their hosts. The truth is that (not unlike politicians) they have managed to convince most of their human hosts that they are indispensable. In fact, their lobbying organizations have successfully convinced millions of humans to modify their diet in order to cater to the little leeches. The yogurt industry is now a multibilion-dollar industry. It's not easy to rationalize that much money being wasted annually in the form of gut bacteria chow. The gut bacteria union is surely the most powerful union in the world, and their lobbyists are clearly the best in the industry.

The article you cited reflects a common viewpoint to perpetuate the mistaken viewpoint that extinction is somehow an unnatural event. But the fact of the matter is that of all the species that have at one time or another existed on Earth, 99.9 % are now extinct. And most of the extinctions occurred during five cataclysmic events. So what's the big deal with gut bacteria? Is there any reason why they shouldn't be subject to the same laws of nature under which the rest of us are forced to live?

But seriously, guys who write such articles as that don't understand the human digestive system nor do they understand gut bacteria. Gut bacteria are simply opportunistic parasites who hang around as long as something in our gut appeals to them. If we change our diet and the item that attracted them disappears from their menu, they pack up and leave, to be replaced by a new crew of parasites who find the new diet appealing.

Comparing the gut biome of primitive hunter-gather tribes with ours might provide some interesting reading, but any information that comes from that is totally irrelevant. Consider this quote from the article:

Hunter-gatherers from Tanzania, Venezuela and Peru have a microbiota that is remarkably similar to one another and yet very different from ours in the West. Their guts harbor up to 50% more bacterial species and twice as many bacterial genes than ours do.

Naturally their gut microbiota is similar — they are hunter-gathers and they hunt and gather basically the same foods. Obviously their gut bacteria demographics would have to be similar. And naturally their gut will provide housing for many more bacterial species — they have no refrigeration, no antiseptics or food preservatives. They don't even have plates on which to place their food. They're bound to eat a lot of stuff that you and I would never touch. So they would have to have much higher bacterial diversity in their guts, by definition. But a comparison with our gut flora and fauna is irrelevant, because the bacteria populations in our guts are determined by our diet. If you feed those subjects from hunter-gatherer tribes the same diet you are eating, within a month or so their gut biome will closely resemble yours. In the world of guts, diet, and gut bacteria, it's every bacterium for him or herself.

As you may already know (from my past posts on the topic of gut bacteria balances) I'm not a huge fan of the little parasites. As far as I'm concerned, they can all go the way of the dinosaurs and I'll be a happy camper because then I won't have to support them.

Tex

[Erica P-G]

Hmmm, well then my lasts tests that said I have 0.00 Lacto bacteria must mean I am not eating anything that requires it to be there

The way you explained it Tex, brings a whole new meaning about bacteria needs, and uses.

Thank you for such an enlightened explanation to the realm of bacteria

Perhaps I just got suckered into the whole 'why aren't we living like those in Tanzania!"....probably because I'm not living there!!! LOL

[tex]

Hmmm, well then my lasts tests that said I have 0.00 Lacto bacteria must mean I am not eating anything that requires it to be there

IMO it means that you are not eating any foods that provide the nutrients (at some stage during the digestive process) that they thrive on.

Families always have very similar gut biomes (provided that everyone in the family is eating a similar diet). That's why when fecal transplants are used to treat C. diff (for example), a close family member is selected as the donor (because other than the C. diff infection, close family members should be hosts to the same gut bacteria profile as the transplant recipient's normal gut bacteria profile.

One reason why this is not as consistent as it used to be is because these days so many meals are eaten away from home (by various individual family members) and as a result everyone in the family does not eat exactly the same diet. A couple of generations ago, virtually everyone in a family ate all but occasional meals at home. And we naturally pick up gut bacteria from our home environment if they happen to be missing from our gut genome. But if our diet is different, some of the strains may not be able to compete in our gut.

And remember that this is just my opinion, and 99.999 % of "health experts" will surely disagree with me because they have been "indoctrinated" by the gut bacteria lobby. I have had 2 major emergency abdominal surgeries during the past 10 years or so, and since there was no time for cleanout on either occasion, I had enough antibiotics to annihilate (for all practical purposes) all the bacteria in my digestive system. While recovering, for several weeks at least, my guts were bacteria-free and my digestion (and my general health) was excellent. Clearly I didn't need them for digestive purposes.

And I would point out that until the bacteria managed to move back into my gut, my feces had no characteristic odor. It was as sweet as a baby's breath. That all changed after about 5 or 6 weeks or so as the bacteria began to become established again.

If we moved to Tanzania and joined a family there and ate the same diet they eat, I'll guarantee that our gut bacteria profile would be a close match to theirs after a month or so (provided that we didn't die of food poisoning or an infection that our immune system had not yet learned to handle).

Tex

[Blueberry]

When I read the article I was thinking similar, in that one could really interpret what is mentioned in different ways. Regardless, I personally have not had luck with taking probiotics. I've pretty much given up on them. I tried several brands but didn't notice a difference.

On another IBD sight I have seen threads were members are asked to give their opinion on probiotics. As an example, in this thread some write in that probiotics did not help. Others though give reviews that he/she believed the probiotics provided great benefits. I guess everyone is different.

http://www.crohnsforum.com/showthread.php?t=23071

[Erica P-G]

This is completely the other end of the body.....but I have not had to use any type of deodorant since I have gone off my offending foods. I know totally random thought here, but it also correlates with the baby breath feces

I don't take any probiotics...in fact I probably wont unless I really have a bout with a course of antibiotics then I may consider it again, just to jump start my system. With the info along the lines of having killed off all bacteria and the gut still digesting things just fine, makes me scratch my head...are the bacteria there as guides for our immune system to give it clues as to what our bodies should attack and what it shouldn't???

Bacteria are strange things indeed...just glad we can live with the majority of them.

[tex]

are the bacteria there as guides for our immune system to give it clues as to what our bodies should attack and what it shouldn't???

Naw — they're just there to take advantage of free room and board. Note that I didn't take any probiotics either time (nor at any other time).

And note how in that article the researchers try to promote the idea that a low fiber diet is unhealthy, because it exterminates some of the bacteria in the gut. IOW, this is supposed to support their point that reducing gut population diversity or numbers is a bad thing.

Our laboratory recently set out to test whether a lack of dietary fiber could have contributed to the deteriorated microbiota observed in Western people relative to hunter-gatherers. We fed mice a low-fiber diet and “watched” — using DNA sequencing — what happened to their guts. As we had suspected, the number of bacterial species declined precipitously. But when we bred these mice, we were astonished to find that the decline worsened with each subsequent generation.

We should have seen this coming. Much of our microbiota is, in a way, inherited from our mothers as we pass through the birth canal. If a mother's microbiota is missing species, it follows that her child's microbiota is also at risk of missing species. Putting the mice back on a high-fiber diet in an attempt to regain these lost species was futile. The damage to the microbiota was irreversible.

But note that no mention is made of what (if any) health effect this loss of gut bacteria diversity had on the mice. You can jolly well bet that if it had even the slightest negative effect on the rodent's health the researchers would have trumpeted that observation from the highest hill. Since no mention was made of any effect at all, we can safely conclude that if the loss of those bacteria had any effect at all it was probably beneficial (but they're not about to mention that, since that would contradict their agenda).

But what their little fiber experiment does prove is that gut bacteria are a family phenomena, just as I mentioned in my previous post. If close family members do not have a certain strain of gut bacteria, then we are not likely to carry it either.

And note this quote from that article:

People with more diverse microbiomes tend to be leaner and have better metabolic function.

Look at what that actually says — it verifies that gut bacteria are parasites that consume a substantial part of our nutrients. We could do the same thing with helminths (worms), but unfortunately for helminths, they don't have any lobbyists working for them in the probiotic industry, so no one views them as warm and cuddly, the way they view gut bacteria.

And talk about scare tactics to make sure that people who fall for their hype aren't likely to forget it:

Conversely, if your diet is poor in fiber, you are starving your microbial self. Even more upsetting: You may also be starving your children's microbiomes.

Wow! As if it should be illegal for parents to try to prevent their children from being forced to feed and care for 10 to 15 pounds of gut parasites for their entire lives. IMO such parents should be praised, not ridiculed or shamed by misguided pseudo scientists.

Tex

[Blueberry]

I've noticed that also, that I don't really smell much either since the change of diet, or at least I thought. It was funny, tonight while watching a movie our least sociable cat jumped up next to me and began licking my arm. While on this fish diet of mine, I'm thinking it might be a good idea for me to keep the bed room door locked at night.

[Martha]

Gut bacteria chow!!! I laughed right out loud. You crack me up, Tex.

Martha

[tex]

I'm glad you enjoyed it. I'm probably risking a public thrashing for my politically incorrect treatment of the little pests, but I consider it kind of funny the way that so many people cater to intestinal parasites. When you stop and think about it, such behavior has to be the height of irony. No other species reveres it's parasites the way that humans do.

Tex

[Mrs. Poopy Jeans]

Tex, I am learning so much from you and others on this site. The book is marvelous and everyone is so helpful. I have started a food diary and all was hunky dory until 9:00 tonight Explosive urgent D and a clean up. Sigh.....I hate this,but I am still o a learning curve with diet. Maybe it was the 2 cinnamon fire hard candies I ate. Oh well tomorrow is a new day.

Btw I love your political incorrectness. LOL!

[tex]

Sorry that you had a setback. I was a sugar addict before my symptoms began, and after I learned that secondary to gluten and alcohol, sugar is probably the next most common cause of leaky gut, l cut my sugar consumption down to a minimum, and that helped a lot. Most candies contain ingredients that most of us cannot tolerate, especially while we are recovering.

The food diary should prove to be very helpful in the long run. I kept one for several years on a computer spreadsheet while I was trying to figure out what was wrong with my digestive system, and I continued it after I was in remission but still healing.

Tex

[Mrs. Poopy Jeans]

Thanks Tex! Hope you are having a good day.

[Karen.gerstle@gmail.com]

My first post here, I have read Tex's book, and most of the archives. Today finally figured out why searches for best probiotic to obtain remission for MC find so little. Should have known the answer would be something very different from expected. Everyday is an adventure in thinking outside the box and hopefully outside of the bathroom!!!

[tex]

Hi Karen,

Welcome to our Internet family. For decades the American Gastroenterological Association Institute recommended the use of probiotics to treat MC. But most of the members of this forum (who have tried probiotics) have found that either probiotics do not help, or they make our symptoms worse. Probably less than 1 % of members here who have tried them have found that they actually help. So we have always recommended not using probiotics (except for a 2-week period following an antibiotic treatment). I note that in mid-December, 2015, the American Gastroenterological Association Institute finally reversed it's position on probiotics when they published new guidelines on the treatment of MC. One of their guidelines now says:

The association specifically does not recommend treatment with probiotics or Boswellia serrata, when attempting to induce clinical remission.

You can download a copy of their new guidelines at the link below:

http://www.gastrojournal.org/article/S0 ... 1625-X/pdf

Here's a little anecdote about this issue:

Dr. Kenneth Fine, the founder of EnteroLab, was one of the first researchers to make any real progress in the treatment of the disease. He began researching MC after he developed the disease himself, and he is the only gastroenterologist I am aware of who actually has MC. He is the researcher who first recommended the GF diet for treating MC and he developed the Pepto-Bismol treatment, roughly 20 years ago.

Anyway, like most GI specialists, he always recommended the use of a "good" probiotic for treating MC. But when pressed to come up with a recommendation of a specific type or brand, he was never able to make a recommendation because he claimed that he was still searching for one that worked for most people. He used a probiotic but apparently when others tried the one that he used, it made them sick.

I agree with you that this disease is probably the greatest challenge that most of us will ever face, and there is never a dull day during the first year or 2 while we are learning how to control the symptoms.

Again, welcome aboard, and please feel free to ask anything.

Tex