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JFR
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Post by JFR »

gac wrote:BACON!!!!!!! I love bacon!!!!! I hadn't even thought of that as I'm still thinking like a fat person, a person who isn't supposed to eat bacon. But at this point, I need food, food that will stick with me, food I like, food that tastes good so I don't feel hungry all the time. I noticed that the fattier the beef is that I eat, the better I feel. Which is why white meat chicken doesn't work for me. Ground chicken and turkey don't work either. I used coconut oil to make GF brownies the other day as I was so hungry and felt OK after those. Will use coconut oil whenever I can, same with butter.

I need to start a list of foods that work, foods that don't, although that seems to be a flexible list. Some foods that I was able to eat 6 months ago I cannot eat now as I am going thru a flare-up right now.

Will I ever get to the point of being able to drink any fruit juices? I love fruit juice and miss it so much. I never drink anything but water and coffee and I am missing other beverages.
I was once a fat person. I now weigh 115 pounds less than I did at my highest. I have no trouble maintaining what is now considered a "normal" weight. I lost all of the weight eating a real food diet (no processed foods with long ingredient lists) low in carbohydrates, moderate in protein and high in fat (coconut oil, olive oil and ghee along with fatty meat). This kind of diet corresponds nicely with my MC food requirements. As Tex said, the past 50 years of low fat dietary advice has been all wrong, not only as it pertains to weight loss but as it pertains to health in general.

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Post by dfpowell »

gac
I use my bacon dripping on ground turkey, I cook the turkey up and freeze it, and when I reheat it I will add the bacon fat. I use quite a bit of bacon so always have some fat on hand. Also, like jean my diet is 50%+ in fat and I have maintained a healthy weight.

Tex,
I've been buying cultured ghee, because they test it and list the ppm of casein, do you have any idea what regular ghee might have for levels of casein?

Thanks,
Donna

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Post by tex »

Hi Donna,

Well, the bad news is that probably none of it is actually safe for someone who has a serious casein sensitivity. The "regular" versions are typically highly variable on casein content. Early on when I was recovering, I tried some ghee that I found in my local health food store. I didn't have a major reaction, but it was suspicious enough that I stopped using it and have never tried it since. It's clearly a "low-casein" product.

You may be like me — after I was in remission for a year or 2 I discovered that I can tolerate casein without any digestive system issues. But the problem is that I produce antibodies to it, which means that it causes chronic inflammation (and things such as slowly increasing osteoarthritis), so asymptomatic or not, I avoid casein. While trying to find some actual statistics on casein content I came across this blog, which I believe sums up the issues surrounding ghee rather well:
So what is Doctor DiNezza's opinion on ghee if you're casein intolerant?

No. No. No. No. Sweet Jesus, NO. Don't do it. ESPECIALLY if you have an autoimmune disease.

Here's the thing, kids: Casein sensitivity is just as serious as a gluten sensitivity, which is just as serious as full-blown Celiac disease (in my opinion). If you are sensitive to this nasty stuff any little bit of exposure has the potential to piss off your immune system. Interestingly, if you read the comments on many of these "hooray for ghee" blogs you'll see many, many people saying that they do, in fact react to ghee. Frustratingly, this is usually met with a response from the posting author saying "well, have you tried THIS ghee?" Oy vey. You wouldn't see any Celiacs reaching for low-gluten bread if there was such a thing, let alone questioning the quality or the type of low-gluten bread when they react to it poorly. So, why are so many dairy intolerant people so eager to embrace ghee?

1. It's freaking delicious
2. One of the big "selling points" of paleo is the whole "holy crap I was told for years that I couldn't eat these foods but now you're telling me they're okay to eat and possibly even healthy?? BOOYA!" Dairy is one of those foods.
3. Paleo and primal people like to talk about the health benefits of dairy, which I readily admit are numerous if your immune system and gut don't say otherwise. Heck, many people now put butter or ghee in their coffee, even. Obviously we casein intolerant folk don't want to feel left out of the fun.
4. What else are you supposed to use for cooking oil? Soy bean oil? Psssssh
5. Did I mention it's delicious?

I personally don't trust ghee and I don't recommend that my patients use it if they are sensitive to dairy.

Commercially available ghee can only be guaranteed to be so pure. Purity farms, for example states that their ghee contains no more than 0.11% casein. I remember digging a few months ago and figuring out that 0.11% comes out to around 1200 PPM casein (I will try to find where I found that number). To give you a reference of how much casein that is, for beer to be considered "gluten free" it needs to test below 20 PPM of gluten. 20 versus 1200 Parts Per Million. No thank you- I'll stick with my coconut spread and play it safe.

Homemade ghee is likely even worse than store-bought ghee as far as casein content goes*. I'm all about making stuff from scratch but come on, folks. I've seen people make ghee before- you simmer the butter until the proteins foam at the top, then you scoop off the foam with what looks like a wonton scooper or a spoon. I would get the heebie jeebies if somebody cooked gluteney pasta in my pots and pans even if they cleaned them out afterward. What makes us believe that we can do an adequate job getting rid of those pesky milk proteins? I don't buy it.

Lastly, a plea to all the paleo bloggers out there:
Please, please stop telling people they can have ghee if they are casein intolerant. Unless you have the laboratory testing from multiple people to back up your claims, I'm just not buying it- but that's not the problem. The problem is that your audience might believe you. Regular people who don't know any better believe what they find on the internet. Don't be the person who gives them incorrect and potentially dangerous information.
Why Ghee Is NOT Safe If You Are Casein Intolerant/Sensitive

Her math is a little shaky. In the example she uses, 0.11% casein is actually 1,100 ppm.

The website at the following link states that:
Very pure ghee (99 -99.5% pure butter oil) may have trace amounts of casein and lactose remaining, but unless a person is extremely sensitive, it will normally not cause problems, even if other dairy does.
https://www.pureindianfoods.com/dairy-i ... -a/259.htm

But of course that 0.5 to 1 % impurity content could be all sorts of things. The point is though, if this is the best that "very pure ghee" is capable of, the casein content of any ghee is highly suspect.

Cultured ghee is simply ghee made from cultured butter. All that said though, I'm not sure that casein is as grave a threat as gluten, because it seems to be relatively easy for many of us to develop a tolerance for it (as long as our diet is gluten-free). IMO the biggest threat from casein occurs in combination with gluten or gluten cross-contamination.

Tex
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It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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Post by brandy »

I've had no problems with the PureIndian foods ghee. A lot of the ghees sold in my town have artificial colorings or artificial flavors on the label. I don't buy those. I can get the PureIndian locally or online.

I don't think I could have tolerated ghee when i was new to MC, i.e. I think coconut oil, bacon fat, and olive oil are safer.

It is cheap and easy enough to make ghee. I used Joe's (one of our members) procedures to make ghee.

My experience is that after I made ghee myself I have no doubt the a commercial food processor like PureIndian foods gets much more of the casein out than I can.

Prior to using ghee I used Earth Balance Soy Free. The Earth Balance Soy Free tastes good but once I eliminated it I did better. There are a lot of artificial ingredients in the Earth Balance Soy Free.

Ghee is the fat I use the least but I use it when I want buttery flavor.
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Post by JFR »

I've been using Ancient Organics Ghee. I had tried, several years ago, the ghee from Pure Indian Foods. I didn't notice a reaction but I didn't really like the taste so I stopped using it. A few months ago I tried the Ancient Organics ghee and like the taste a lot better and it doesn't seem to cause any reaction. I am scrupulous about my diet and haven't had any gluten or casein or anything else I am sensitive to in over 4 years. I eat only foods I prepare myself so I am sure of what is going in my body. That said it is certainly possible that the casein in the ghee is causing the production of antibodies but for the moment it seems like a safe thing for me to be doing. Time will tell.

Jean
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Post by brandy »

Tex and Donna,

I finally tested cheese about 6 weeks ago. I ate 3 1" cubes of cheddar and 3 1" cubes of swiss cheese at the American Airlines club in the Charlotte airport.
I had 6 cubes traveling north then 6 cubes a week later traveling south. This is my first dairy consumption since diagnosis--August 2011. Believe me, cheese tasted as good as I remembered. I did however cause extreme joint pain in my right knee for about 5 days after each test.

So, no cheese since.

I think the ghee is pure enough that it does not cause joint pain and I use it maybe once every 2 or three weeks.
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Post by brandy »

Thanks for the tip on Ancient Organics. :pigtail:
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Post by dfpowell »

Tex,

Thank you for the info on Ghee! I just recently bought the Indian Foods cultured ghee because they have labeled it as 2.5 ppm for its casein and whey content. What is interesting is they list the gluten content as less than 5 ppm, now I do not understand how gluten is even getting into the ghee.

Guess I will only use it occasionally and monitor any reaction I may be having. I don't really miss not having it, but would like to have something with shrimp or lobster.
Donna

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Post by tex »

Donna wrote:they have labeled it as 2.5 ppm for its casein and whey content.
At that level you should be able to eat unlimited amounts with no problems.
Donna wrote:What is interesting is they list the gluten content as less than 5 ppm, now I do not understand how gluten is even getting into the ghee.
Call me paranoid but I have a hunch that you could find that level of contamination in virtually anything, anywhere in the developed world. Gluten is ubiquitous and every time someone opens a bag of flour in Los Angeles, the prevailing winds carry the flour dust particles across the country. They weight nothing, so they can travel thousands of miles if the winds cooperate. Multiply that by the millions of times that happens every day, and then multiply that by all the cities in the world where people are pouring flour into bowls, or coating pizza crusts, or harvesting wheat, or milling it, or . . . and I'll bet that you could test a sample of sand in death valley and discover that it contains gluten. I'm serious. The stuff is everywhere.

Look at the result of this spot check of gluten-free flours on grocery store shelves that was done a few years ago:
The following products contained above the limit of quantification for gluten:

Product/Mean ppm
Millet flour/305
Millet flour/327
Millet grain/14
Millet grain/25
White rice flour/8.5
Buckwheat flour/65
Sorghum flour/234
Soy flour/2,925
Soy flour/92

The following products tested below the limit of quantification for gluten: basmati rice; long grain brown rice; enriched corn meal; instant polenta; 1 sample of rice flour; hulled buckwheat; buckwheat groats; amaranth flour; flax seed; and amaranth seed.
Contamination of naturally gluten-free grains

Note that the phrase "tested below the limit of quantification for gluten does not mean gluten-free — it means that the samples tested below 20 ppm. I'm pretty sure it's a safe bet that absolutely none of them tested zero.

This is the reason why Dr. Fasano argued long and hard a few years ago to set the labeling requirements at 20 ppm, because if the level were set significantly below that, there wouldn't be very many legal products available. Personally I feel that the limit should be 10 ppm. 5 ppm is doable (I think the Aussies use that limit if I recall correctly, and they can probably get away with it because our flour dust is not likely to drift that far — the prevailing winds blow the wrong way :grin:), but in most developed countries, the GF sections of stores would be only a tiny fraction of their current size if a 5 ppm gluten limit were imposed and rigidly enforced. A lot of expensive changes would have to be made in this country, and probably in Europe, also.

But as I said, maybe I'm just paranoid. :lol:

Tex
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Post by Gabes-Apg »

Yes - aussie labelling requires Gluten Free to be 5 ppm or less
that is why alot of the USA based gluten free products are not available here - they dont meet the strict labelling requirements to be sold here

This issue is part of why I encourage people on this board to minimise/avoid eating processed food items and go with good protein and safe veges (with safe oils)

(PS we still have wheat and sorgham crops here in Aus! and there are two grain and oil processing plants in the state where i live (one of them is within 60km of me)
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Post by gac »

I too no longer trust anything that says GF after getting sick too many times. When in doubt? Go back to an original food that cannot be gluten like a potato or a meat that you prepare yourself. I quit trying to read all the labels on foods as they made me absolutely BONKERS. If I have to eat out somewhere or at someone's home, then I will try to read a label (like on a dressing or a sauce) but since I'm back to basics on foods right now, I'm eating everything PLAIN PLAIN PLAIN with no sauces or seasonings of any kind. Food really can taste good with only salt. And shut up, doctor, my BP is just fine so don't tell me to give up salt as it is my only seasoning right now.
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Post by gac »

"Rutabagas, turnips, beets, sweet potatoes are some other options." - OMG - if I ate any of those I would be so sick. Sweet potatoes sent me over the edge as did beets, which I love. I haven't tried the other two since so far the only 2 veggies I can tolerate are carrots and white potatoes and even carrots are "iffy" most weeks. I've accepted that veggies will not be my friends for quite a while and that is OK. Meat and white potatoes OK with me.

I had terrible muscle cramps the other night and grabbed a bottle of gatorade to see if that would help, which it did but all that sugar sure screwed up my intestines again. Won't do that again.

My list of what I can eat is very short - what not to eat is very very long and that is OK for now. I just want to feel better. I know patience needs to be my code word.
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Post by crervin »

Gac,
I couldn't eat sweet potatoes 10 months ago, but now I can. I cut both ends off before I bake it. It may be a wives tail, but it seems to not cause me as much gas when I do that. I eat those twice a week. You may be able to add those back later. Also it took awhile before I realized my OTC meds bothering me because they contained corn. Especially antihistamines! Corn is in everything, OTC meds especially! They hide that stuff.
Martha E.

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tex
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Post by tex »

Martha wrote:Corn is in everything, OTC meds especially! They hide that stuff.
:iagree: I had to avoid corn while I was recovering and I found that much, much tougher than avoiding gluten or dairy. Corn works just fine for me now, though.

Tex
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Post by gac »

I haven't had a problem with corn - I eat corn chex, corn chips, corn bread, have even eaten pureed corn and not had a problem so I don't think corn is a problem for me, thank goodness or I'd have to give up cereal for breakfast and right now, cereal/almond milk or peanut butter/gluten free bread are my only breakfasts. I know I should give up the peanut butter and bread but it keeps my intestines SLOW SLOW SLOW. Without it I end up with diarrhea again. So I eat what works for now.

I hate the thought that the antihistamines may be a problem as I desperately need them for my allergies which are so out of control this year - cannot breathe, sneeze a lot, many headaches from allergies. And every time someone in neighborhood cuts grass, it kicks in again. I take pills constantly for it. Hoping to see relief soon.
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