Aloha - I would appreciate some help with vitamins. My naturopath is telling me I am undermethylated so not to take folate. I already figured that out as it gives me D. I see that the Rice Chex I eat daily gives me 50% RDA of folate and wonder if I should stop that (would hate to have to). My BMs are fine.
I have been taking various supplements including B12 and Pyridoxial-5-Phosphate. She wants me to take B-6 50 mg on top of that - it has pyridoxine HCL. I notice that I get a funny feeling in my stomach in between meals when I do (goes away if I eat something - feels like too much HCL in my stomach I guess). BYW - I also take a digestive enzyme before lunch and dinner that has Betaine HCL, Pepsin and L-Glutamin acid HCL. Any benefit from taking P5P and this B6 that anyone is aware of? I thought the former is the activated form of the latter. I have many other supplements questions but I'll just stick to this one for now. Thanks in advance for any input! Mahalo
Vitamin B 6 and P5P
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
Vitamin B 6 and P5P
LC, strong reaction to cola, squash and D & C Orange #4; moderate reaction to sugar cane, sulfite, sardine, flaxseed, coriander, black-eyed peas and FD & C Blue #1. Enterolab Anti-gliadin IgA 6 units.
Folate (and any other nutrients found in food) are not nearly as likely to cause problems as supplements. If fact, vitamins and minerals in food virtually never cause any problems — it's almost impossible to overdose on them when they are in whole food, for example). I never worry about vitamins and minerals in food, and I also have methylation problems. Of course the problem with my statement is that the folate in many foods (such as cereals and flour) are added during processing. That said, if you are not having major digestive system problems, I doubt that the folate in Chex presents much of a problem.
Yes, P5P is the active form of vitamin B-6. I don't claim to know much about this, but i really don't understand why you would need to take both forms in supplements. Too much B-6 has been shown to cause certain neurological issues such as paresthesia (numbness). I wonder if that could be the cause of the "funny feeling" you experience in your stomach between meals. That said, I take Metanx (a prescription combination of the active forms of B-12, B-9, and B-6), and I have never experienced any unusual stomach sensations between meals. Of course that's not surprising, because there are many different forms of methylation issues, and the odds of us having the same DNA mutations are probably rather slim.
Incidentally, I just noticed that you have a very rare condition — LC without gluten sensitivity. In fact, you do not list a sensitivity to any of the foods for which EnteroLab offers stool tests. Are you sure that you do not have selective IgA deficiency? I don't mean to be nosy, but if you have had a test to rule out selective IgA deficiency (and the result was negative for selective IgA deficiency), then you are a very rare case, and as a student of MC, I'm always interested in rare cases. This is important because for my next book on MC, I am exploring alternative avenues by which MC/LC/CC can be triggered (such as methylation issues and mast cell issues). According to the official medical description of MC, only T cell-based intestinal inflammation is considered to be the cause of the inflammation that perpetuates the disease. You might be an example of a case to verify my theory.
You're very welcome,
Tex
Yes, P5P is the active form of vitamin B-6. I don't claim to know much about this, but i really don't understand why you would need to take both forms in supplements. Too much B-6 has been shown to cause certain neurological issues such as paresthesia (numbness). I wonder if that could be the cause of the "funny feeling" you experience in your stomach between meals. That said, I take Metanx (a prescription combination of the active forms of B-12, B-9, and B-6), and I have never experienced any unusual stomach sensations between meals. Of course that's not surprising, because there are many different forms of methylation issues, and the odds of us having the same DNA mutations are probably rather slim.
Incidentally, I just noticed that you have a very rare condition — LC without gluten sensitivity. In fact, you do not list a sensitivity to any of the foods for which EnteroLab offers stool tests. Are you sure that you do not have selective IgA deficiency? I don't mean to be nosy, but if you have had a test to rule out selective IgA deficiency (and the result was negative for selective IgA deficiency), then you are a very rare case, and as a student of MC, I'm always interested in rare cases. This is important because for my next book on MC, I am exploring alternative avenues by which MC/LC/CC can be triggered (such as methylation issues and mast cell issues). According to the official medical description of MC, only T cell-based intestinal inflammation is considered to be the cause of the inflammation that perpetuates the disease. You might be an example of a case to verify my theory.
You're very welcome,
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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Gabes-Apg
- Emperor Penguin
- Posts: 8332
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:12 pm
- Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia
The supplementing with B6 on empty stomach causes nausea for most people..
one advantage of having the P5P is that you are taking it in its active form.. and getting benefit faster for your Methylation Cycle
B6 / P5P is one of the cornerstones of the methylation cycle so it is pretty important.
it is also part of the histamine cycle, metabolism of protein, the other key role is down regulator of several receptor sites, estrogen, progesterone and androgen
it is also one of the key synergising agents for key minerals etc
Check with your naturopath regarding the Rice Chex
Due to my non MC health issues, I will be on B6 / P5P supplementation for life.
one advantage of having the P5P is that you are taking it in its active form.. and getting benefit faster for your Methylation Cycle
B6 / P5P is one of the cornerstones of the methylation cycle so it is pretty important.
it is also part of the histamine cycle, metabolism of protein, the other key role is down regulator of several receptor sites, estrogen, progesterone and androgen
it is also one of the key synergising agents for key minerals etc
Check with your naturopath regarding the Rice Chex
Due to my non MC health issues, I will be on B6 / P5P supplementation for life.
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
This is important because diamine oxidase (DAO) enzyme requires vitamin B-6 for activation. And as most of us are aware, DAO enzyme is used by the body to purge excess (unused) histamine. Without the action of DAO enzyme, histamine tends to build up and cause problems.Gabes wrote:it is also part of the histamine cycle
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Vitamin B 6 and P5P
Aloha Tex - thanks for your quick and informative reply. Yes, I do think I do not fit the usual profile of what is mentioned here (more on the C side than D) but there is much helpful and useful info. I am happy to give any info that could be helpful to others.
The only Enterolab test I had was for gluten. I do not believe the results are accurate. I have been avoiding and limiting gluten for 30 years since I noticed the impact - stuffy or runny nose, tiredness etc. Do you suggest I get any other Enterolab tests?
I got testing by ELISA/ACT that shows the strong and moderate reactions to foods. They say I am non reactive to foods that I know I react to though such as apples and pears. I started off 40 years ago with sensitivity to apples, pears, peaches, plums etc. Swelling in throat with apples which now my 26 years old daughter just told me she has now too.
As for the IgA issue: I got tested 1-16 and results: IgA 69.8 mg/dl; IgM 61.5 and IgG 689.0 mg/dl. GI doc never contacted me to say there is a problem. I never have actually met with the GI doc (they keep changing) since the MC diagnosis 6-15.
I'm not sure how to reply to Gabe's post too. I just wanted to ask her if she does takes 2 separate supplements - P5P as well as vitamin B6.
Thanks for your help.
The only Enterolab test I had was for gluten. I do not believe the results are accurate. I have been avoiding and limiting gluten for 30 years since I noticed the impact - stuffy or runny nose, tiredness etc. Do you suggest I get any other Enterolab tests?
I got testing by ELISA/ACT that shows the strong and moderate reactions to foods. They say I am non reactive to foods that I know I react to though such as apples and pears. I started off 40 years ago with sensitivity to apples, pears, peaches, plums etc. Swelling in throat with apples which now my 26 years old daughter just told me she has now too.
As for the IgA issue: I got tested 1-16 and results: IgA 69.8 mg/dl; IgM 61.5 and IgG 689.0 mg/dl. GI doc never contacted me to say there is a problem. I never have actually met with the GI doc (they keep changing) since the MC diagnosis 6-15.
I'm not sure how to reply to Gabe's post too. I just wanted to ask her if she does takes 2 separate supplements - P5P as well as vitamin B6.
Thanks for your help.
LC, strong reaction to cola, squash and D & C Orange #4; moderate reaction to sugar cane, sulfite, sardine, flaxseed, coriander, black-eyed peas and FD & C Blue #1. Enterolab Anti-gliadin IgA 6 units.
Your IgA level seems fine. Your EnteroLab test result for gluten might have been negative because you've been avoiding gluten for so long. Usually 2 to 5 years on a GF diet should cause a negative test result, depending on how high your antibody level was when the diet was started.
I'm surprised that the ELISA/ACT test didn't detect the fruit allergies, because those tests expose your lymphocytes to food allergens directly. Throat swelling is a strong allergic reaction (anaphylaxis), so the test surely should have caught that. Maybe they tested the wrong allergens in apples and pears. Your sensitivities to the various items in your list certainly suggests that you do indeed have significant mast cell issues that may be affecting your LC.
If you're still having digestive symptoms, the EneroLab tests might be helpful if you're eating any of the foods that the tests cover (dairy, soy, eggs, corn, rice, oats, beef, chicken, pork, tuna, almonds, cashews, walnuts, and white potato). But if you're not having any symptoms, or if you're not eating any of those foods, then there wouldn't be much benefit in ordering the tests.
You can just write another post to Gabes. It doesn't necessarily have to be the next in line. But she may notice your comments in the post above.
You're very welcome.
Tex
I'm surprised that the ELISA/ACT test didn't detect the fruit allergies, because those tests expose your lymphocytes to food allergens directly. Throat swelling is a strong allergic reaction (anaphylaxis), so the test surely should have caught that. Maybe they tested the wrong allergens in apples and pears. Your sensitivities to the various items in your list certainly suggests that you do indeed have significant mast cell issues that may be affecting your LC.
If you're still having digestive symptoms, the EneroLab tests might be helpful if you're eating any of the foods that the tests cover (dairy, soy, eggs, corn, rice, oats, beef, chicken, pork, tuna, almonds, cashews, walnuts, and white potato). But if you're not having any symptoms, or if you're not eating any of those foods, then there wouldn't be much benefit in ordering the tests.
You can just write another post to Gabes. It doesn't necessarily have to be the next in line. But she may notice your comments in the post above.
You're very welcome.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Aloha Gabes - one or 2 more questions about the P5P and Vitamin B6. I am glad I am still trying to work this out as it looks like they meant to sell me Vit B 6 50 mg but sold me 100 mg. Yikes - I just saw the dosage was wrong.
About dosage: it looks like I am being directed to take P5P 50 mg daily. Vital Nutrients seems to sit well with me.
For Vitamin B6 (pyridoxine HCL) it says take 50 mg for 2 weeks and build up to 100 mg daily. I was given Douglas Labs. Do you have a brand you can suggest?
What dosages do you take of these? I know everyone has to figure out what is best for them but I do not want to overdo it.
Thanks!
About dosage: it looks like I am being directed to take P5P 50 mg daily. Vital Nutrients seems to sit well with me.
For Vitamin B6 (pyridoxine HCL) it says take 50 mg for 2 weeks and build up to 100 mg daily. I was given Douglas Labs. Do you have a brand you can suggest?
What dosages do you take of these? I know everyone has to figure out what is best for them but I do not want to overdo it.
Thanks!
LC, strong reaction to cola, squash and D & C Orange #4; moderate reaction to sugar cane, sulfite, sardine, flaxseed, coriander, black-eyed peas and FD & C Blue #1. Enterolab Anti-gliadin IgA 6 units.
-
Gabes-Apg
- Emperor Penguin
- Posts: 8332
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:12 pm
- Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia
Aloha
thus far i have had to get my P5P as a compound as I was not able to buy a suitable safe one online.
My chiro also has access to a practitioner only version that is safe for me.
I do know that in the past few months some of the aussies (non MC;ers but with other health issues) buy the Now foods brand or Thorne brand via iHerb. I have not investigated if these products of P5P are MC safe.
for B6, I have used the now foods B6 (via iHerb) 50 mg tablets. once i finish these i will be using drops that are practitioner only via my chiro..
definately start low and go very gradually with dosage increases (for both) given their key roles methylation, hormones, neurotransmitter synthesis, nervous system function,
too much too soon can have noticeable effects on various areas of your body... (not just a MC reaction)
My dosages are not a good indicator for anyone who is non Pyroluria patient.
( at times i have done 100mg B6 and 140mg of P5P per day - this dosage was built up over time with close guidance via functional doctor who treats pyroluria patients and confirmed via my chiro/kinesiologist who via my test results (methylation, hormones, thyroid, and various other tests), symptoms, and her knowledge of methylation, pyroluria and cell health)
thus far i have had to get my P5P as a compound as I was not able to buy a suitable safe one online.
My chiro also has access to a practitioner only version that is safe for me.
I do know that in the past few months some of the aussies (non MC;ers but with other health issues) buy the Now foods brand or Thorne brand via iHerb. I have not investigated if these products of P5P are MC safe.
for B6, I have used the now foods B6 (via iHerb) 50 mg tablets. once i finish these i will be using drops that are practitioner only via my chiro..
definately start low and go very gradually with dosage increases (for both) given their key roles methylation, hormones, neurotransmitter synthesis, nervous system function,
too much too soon can have noticeable effects on various areas of your body... (not just a MC reaction)
My dosages are not a good indicator for anyone who is non Pyroluria patient.
( at times i have done 100mg B6 and 140mg of P5P per day - this dosage was built up over time with close guidance via functional doctor who treats pyroluria patients and confirmed via my chiro/kinesiologist who via my test results (methylation, hormones, thyroid, and various other tests), symptoms, and her knowledge of methylation, pyroluria and cell health)
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
Alohagirl,
I've used Vital Nutrients brand of Pyridoxal-5 Phosphate, 50 mg. Inert ingredients are: rice powder, gelatin capsule, leucine, and silica.
Tex
I've used Vital Nutrients brand of Pyridoxal-5 Phosphate, 50 mg. Inert ingredients are: rice powder, gelatin capsule, leucine, and silica.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.