So good to know, Marcia and Gabes! I've got both the dark circles and the puffiness under the eyes, and it's a 24/7 thing and only since the LMC diagnosis - that's why I inquired here. Thanks again so much.
~ Holly
Dentist
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
Holly,
Puffiness and/or dark circles under the eyes can be caused by food allergies:
What Food Allergies Cause Under Eye Circles?
There are also a number of individuals who blame them on prednisone, so presumably budesonide might also cause the problem for some individuals. Some mothers have noted that their babies have developed dark eye circles when using corticosteroid asthma inhalers.
Tex
Puffiness and/or dark circles under the eyes can be caused by food allergies:
What Food Allergies Cause Under Eye Circles?
There are also a number of individuals who blame them on prednisone, so presumably budesonide might also cause the problem for some individuals. Some mothers have noted that their babies have developed dark eye circles when using corticosteroid asthma inhalers.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
This continues to be so interesting and such a journey! Again, thank you for this board, and for all the individuals so willing to share their own experiences as well as what they've learned.
Well, Tex, hopefully between your book arriving and my Entero Lab results, I'll be able to find out more about this. It's not even that I'm not thrilled with this change in my appearance so much as that I understand that the dark circles/edema under the eyes is telling me "something is wrong" in my body and I want to fix it!!
Reading the article (thank you for that, Tex, it's fabulous!), I can see some definite possibilities. I truly have been virtually gluten and dairy free for 8+ months now, and the dark circles/bags under eyes hasn't changed a bit. I've been having Normans for the past almost month now, after having added the anti-histamine and going OFF the Budesonide (can't even express how wonderful this is - you ALL know!!!!) on my current regime which I've already posted. Thank you again for the article; I've often wondered if I am one of those with the salicylate (sp) sensitivity as my symptoms are clearly synonymous. I have been eating and tolerating well small amounts of very high % cacao dark chocolate, and I do still enjoy my glass of red wine/day. Those are my "treats" - if I find out I have to give them up, then so be it.
Will know more after results from Entero Labs, I'm hoping. I have been including rice cakes and sometimes white rice cooked in homemade organic chicken broth, and tolerate them well; however, until my Entero Lab results are in, I've been relying on the very low blood test reading for reaction (virtually 0) to rice. So many others have gone before me, so bravely, into the world of finding out what is truly causing inflammation in their guts from the Enter Lab testing. You all give me the courage to do this. I know that the actual knowing is better, even if it means yet another huge change in eating program. It's worth it to have the answers that make the difference with MC.
This isn't exactly related to the above post, but I'm wondering ... how does one find out if one is sensitive to the salicylates (sp)? And what about cheese ... Tex, you wrote me a wonderful response to another post explaining all the different proteins involved with the different grains, etc. (My question had been whether chicken and eggs were synonymous, as my blood test and personal food testing had shown me able to tolerate chicken well, but the egg WHITE substance came back as the largest of all my food allergens on the 95 Panel blood allergen test - I KNOW blood testing is unreliable for MC). My blood panel said I was highly reactive to all cheeses except Swiss cheese, which was again, virtually a 0 reactive. I've heard that sometimes aged cheeses are in a different "category" for MC'rs, and am wondering if somehow they have much less of the protein that other cheeses/dairy products normally cause us to react to??
That's the only dairy I've had in 8+ months, is a couple of slices of aged Swiss cheese. And it's hard to know exactly what is in the cheeses, as their labels typically don't break down the ingredients to a point where people with conditions like MC can have full confidence in what exactly is in that cheese. Any thoughts??
~ Holly
Well, Tex, hopefully between your book arriving and my Entero Lab results, I'll be able to find out more about this. It's not even that I'm not thrilled with this change in my appearance so much as that I understand that the dark circles/edema under the eyes is telling me "something is wrong" in my body and I want to fix it!!
Reading the article (thank you for that, Tex, it's fabulous!), I can see some definite possibilities. I truly have been virtually gluten and dairy free for 8+ months now, and the dark circles/bags under eyes hasn't changed a bit. I've been having Normans for the past almost month now, after having added the anti-histamine and going OFF the Budesonide (can't even express how wonderful this is - you ALL know!!!!) on my current regime which I've already posted. Thank you again for the article; I've often wondered if I am one of those with the salicylate (sp) sensitivity as my symptoms are clearly synonymous. I have been eating and tolerating well small amounts of very high % cacao dark chocolate, and I do still enjoy my glass of red wine/day. Those are my "treats" - if I find out I have to give them up, then so be it.
Will know more after results from Entero Labs, I'm hoping. I have been including rice cakes and sometimes white rice cooked in homemade organic chicken broth, and tolerate them well; however, until my Entero Lab results are in, I've been relying on the very low blood test reading for reaction (virtually 0) to rice. So many others have gone before me, so bravely, into the world of finding out what is truly causing inflammation in their guts from the Enter Lab testing. You all give me the courage to do this. I know that the actual knowing is better, even if it means yet another huge change in eating program. It's worth it to have the answers that make the difference with MC.
This isn't exactly related to the above post, but I'm wondering ... how does one find out if one is sensitive to the salicylates (sp)? And what about cheese ... Tex, you wrote me a wonderful response to another post explaining all the different proteins involved with the different grains, etc. (My question had been whether chicken and eggs were synonymous, as my blood test and personal food testing had shown me able to tolerate chicken well, but the egg WHITE substance came back as the largest of all my food allergens on the 95 Panel blood allergen test - I KNOW blood testing is unreliable for MC). My blood panel said I was highly reactive to all cheeses except Swiss cheese, which was again, virtually a 0 reactive. I've heard that sometimes aged cheeses are in a different "category" for MC'rs, and am wondering if somehow they have much less of the protein that other cheeses/dairy products normally cause us to react to??
That's the only dairy I've had in 8+ months, is a couple of slices of aged Swiss cheese. And it's hard to know exactly what is in the cheeses, as their labels typically don't break down the ingredients to a point where people with conditions like MC can have full confidence in what exactly is in that cheese. Any thoughts??
~ Holly
2015 Hashimoto's, MTHFR
2016 LMC, Malabsorption
2017 Lymphocytic Dermatologic Vasculitis
"I strive to live in my heart, not in my head!"
2016 LMC, Malabsorption
2017 Lymphocytic Dermatologic Vasculitis
"I strive to live in my heart, not in my head!"
I too have been looking at dark puffy circles under the eyes for months now. I first attributed it to the lack of sleep I was suffering from, but when I finally got that problem resolved they are still there. Now I know why! I'm glad you all brought this up so I know it's "not just me." I've putting a cold wash rag on my eyes in the morning to help them feel better.
Thank you for once again helping me figure out another piece of this puzzle.
Laura
Thank you for once again helping me figure out another piece of this puzzle.
Laura
Holly,
All cheese is loaded with casein. Aged cheese (including Swiss) has a very low lactose content, but the casein is our main problem with cheese. Soft cheeses contain much more lactose (in addition to the casein). I would view that test result with suspicion because Swiss cheese should show the same general results as any other aged cheese (as far as casein intolerance is concerned).
I'm not aware of a test to detect salicylate sensitivity other than to try high-salicylate foods to see if they cause a reaction. Many of us have a problem with the sulfites in wine and possibly other foods. No wine is sulfite-free (because sulfite is a byproduct of the fermentation process), but there are low-sulfite wines that some of us can tolerate better than the high-sulfite wines. Many wines have added sulfites (as a preservative).
Tex
All cheese is loaded with casein. Aged cheese (including Swiss) has a very low lactose content, but the casein is our main problem with cheese. Soft cheeses contain much more lactose (in addition to the casein). I would view that test result with suspicion because Swiss cheese should show the same general results as any other aged cheese (as far as casein intolerance is concerned).
I'm not aware of a test to detect salicylate sensitivity other than to try high-salicylate foods to see if they cause a reaction. Many of us have a problem with the sulfites in wine and possibly other foods. No wine is sulfite-free (because sulfite is a byproduct of the fermentation process), but there are low-sulfite wines that some of us can tolerate better than the high-sulfite wines. Many wines have added sulfites (as a preservative).
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Laura, NONE of us is alone here!!!! I hope others will feel more free to post about unusual changes in their appearance or anything else they notice that is different ... and I just bet there will be a number of us here that can relate!! And it's important (in my opinion) to know that it isn't just us!!
Tex, thank you again!! Will the Entero Lab results tell me whether it's the lactose or the casein I'm most reactive to? On my food allergy blood panel (I know, I know, unreliable, but it's all I have until doing the Entero Lab stool test), under Dairy, casein is listed (I have a "moderate" response to that); whey is listed (my response is enormous ... almost off the charts!!), but lactose isn't listed at all.
Another area where navigation could be made so much better between the labs, doctors and patients, IMO. People are becoming quite aware of the growing number of us being "lactose intolerant", yet I've never heard of anyone mentioning "casein" or "whey" intolerant!! And again, most cheeses don't list their ingredients, which could be important to many people. Some people might be able to enjoy a cheese if it didn't contain "casein", "whey" or "lactose" (whatever the main ingredient/s that are causing the intolerance). Now, most of us avoid all cheese because it's "dairy".
~ Holly
Tex, thank you again!! Will the Entero Lab results tell me whether it's the lactose or the casein I'm most reactive to? On my food allergy blood panel (I know, I know, unreliable, but it's all I have until doing the Entero Lab stool test), under Dairy, casein is listed (I have a "moderate" response to that); whey is listed (my response is enormous ... almost off the charts!!), but lactose isn't listed at all.
Another area where navigation could be made so much better between the labs, doctors and patients, IMO. People are becoming quite aware of the growing number of us being "lactose intolerant", yet I've never heard of anyone mentioning "casein" or "whey" intolerant!! And again, most cheeses don't list their ingredients, which could be important to many people. Some people might be able to enjoy a cheese if it didn't contain "casein", "whey" or "lactose" (whatever the main ingredient/s that are causing the intolerance). Now, most of us avoid all cheese because it's "dairy".
~ Holly
2015 Hashimoto's, MTHFR
2016 LMC, Malabsorption
2017 Lymphocytic Dermatologic Vasculitis
"I strive to live in my heart, not in my head!"
2016 LMC, Malabsorption
2017 Lymphocytic Dermatologic Vasculitis
"I strive to live in my heart, not in my head!"
EnteroLab tests for casein. There's no point in testing for lactose intolerance because absolutely everyone who has enteritis (intestinal inflammation) is lactose intolerant due to the fact that the inflammation compromises the ability of the small intestine to produce adequate quantities of the enzymes needed to digest various sugars. Lactase is the first enzyme lost, and if the inflammation continues, additional enzymes are lost, so that other sugars cannot be digested properly. That's why we have to minimize our sugar intake while we are recovering. Enzyme production is restored in reverse order as the inflammation subsides. But lactase is the first to go and the last to be restored.
Whey contains additional proteins that many of us are also sensitive to if we are sensitive to casein. But EnteroLab doesn't test for them in order to keep the cost of the test at a reasonable level, because whey protein sensitivity is usually linked with casein sensitivity anyway, so it's only necessary (with rare exceptions) to test for the most common allergen (in casein).
You can be sure that all (dairy) cheese contains casein, whey, and lactose, because the main ingredient is milk, and milk contains all 3. Some cheese contains acid, and some contains enzymes, which are additional reasons why no one who has digestive problems should be eating cheese.
Tex
Whey contains additional proteins that many of us are also sensitive to if we are sensitive to casein. But EnteroLab doesn't test for them in order to keep the cost of the test at a reasonable level, because whey protein sensitivity is usually linked with casein sensitivity anyway, so it's only necessary (with rare exceptions) to test for the most common allergen (in casein).
You can be sure that all (dairy) cheese contains casein, whey, and lactose, because the main ingredient is milk, and milk contains all 3. Some cheese contains acid, and some contains enzymes, which are additional reasons why no one who has digestive problems should be eating cheese.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Thank you again, Tex!! Your knowledge is GREATLY appreciated. There's just so much to learn!! I'm still a little curious about the different proteins in whey, as you can't always count on food labeling!! And the more "health-conscious" the food tries to be, sometimes the worse the ingredients and/or label ... such as different protein powders, as an example. They may not be "whey" based, yet they may have some of the other proteins in whey (using this as an example) that someone like myself might react to. Maybe I can do some research into that ... Finding one's "safe" foods is just so important, I really get that.
After one has done the best testing possible (EnteroLabs), there's still a huge area left, and it's scary to think of trial/error, especially knowing and experiencing the symptoms of MC before getting that control. Is there additional testing from EnteroLabs or elsewhere that is accurate for people with MC who want to test further, more foods, more detail, etc.?
BTW, in that food allergy blood panel I mentioned earlier, Swiss cheese was the only aged cheese in the list (95 items total). There were 4-5 other cheeses, none of them aged, all of them from cow's milk.
Is it true then that ANY cheese (including goat cheese, or any type of cheese or dairy product from non-cow's milk) is also "unsafe" for MCr's due to the reasons/ingredients you've listed? And, while I've not tried any, the "lactose-free" dairy products should also be avoided, because they're likely to still have casein and/or whey, or other additives that could cause sensitivities? Sour cream? Cream cheese?
You've probably answered these types of questions a million times. Thanks so much for your patience with me.
~ Holly
After one has done the best testing possible (EnteroLabs), there's still a huge area left, and it's scary to think of trial/error, especially knowing and experiencing the symptoms of MC before getting that control. Is there additional testing from EnteroLabs or elsewhere that is accurate for people with MC who want to test further, more foods, more detail, etc.?
BTW, in that food allergy blood panel I mentioned earlier, Swiss cheese was the only aged cheese in the list (95 items total). There were 4-5 other cheeses, none of them aged, all of them from cow's milk.
Is it true then that ANY cheese (including goat cheese, or any type of cheese or dairy product from non-cow's milk) is also "unsafe" for MCr's due to the reasons/ingredients you've listed? And, while I've not tried any, the "lactose-free" dairy products should also be avoided, because they're likely to still have casein and/or whey, or other additives that could cause sensitivities? Sour cream? Cream cheese?
You've probably answered these types of questions a million times. Thanks so much for your patience with me.
~ Holly
2015 Hashimoto's, MTHFR
2016 LMC, Malabsorption
2017 Lymphocytic Dermatologic Vasculitis
"I strive to live in my heart, not in my head!"
2016 LMC, Malabsorption
2017 Lymphocytic Dermatologic Vasculitis
"I strive to live in my heart, not in my head!"
-
Gabes-Apg
- Emperor Penguin
- Posts: 8332
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:12 pm
- Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia
Holly, in the guidelines to recovery section, eating plan, stage 1, down the bottom is a link to an article explaining about milk /dairy proteins being inflammatory etc.
Even for non MC'ers / non IBD patients, all dairy is inflammatory to the gut.
Even for non MC'ers / non IBD patients, all dairy is inflammatory to the gut.
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
-
Gabes-Apg
- Emperor Penguin
- Posts: 8332
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:12 pm
- Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia
Here is the link
http://www.amymyersmd.com/2013/04/the-dangers-of-dairy/
http://www.amymyersmd.com/2013/04/the-dangers-of-dairy/
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
Holly,
Yes, as Gabes said, all dairy products are problematic because they all contain casein that causes allergenic reactions, including milk and dairy products from sheep and goats. The problem is that their casein molecules all contain peptides that are too similar to the 33-mer peptide found in alpha gliadin molecules of wheat gluten. This causes a molecular mimicry issue that confuses the immune system because of the similarity.
If you can't live without dairy products, the only options that would be different enough from cow's milk to possibly be safe would be products made from the milk of cameloids (such as camels, guanacos, llamas, alpacas, vicuñas, and guanacos) or equines (such as horses, zebras, and asses).
There is a camel dairy in Ramona, California, but I don't believe that they were ever able to obtain a permit from the state to sell the milk for human consumption. California is not exactly the most agriculture-friendly state in the country.
http://www.cameldairy.com/
You might be able to find alpaca and llama milk products in a few places in the Andes of South America.
Tex
Yes, as Gabes said, all dairy products are problematic because they all contain casein that causes allergenic reactions, including milk and dairy products from sheep and goats. The problem is that their casein molecules all contain peptides that are too similar to the 33-mer peptide found in alpha gliadin molecules of wheat gluten. This causes a molecular mimicry issue that confuses the immune system because of the similarity.
If you can't live without dairy products, the only options that would be different enough from cow's milk to possibly be safe would be products made from the milk of cameloids (such as camels, guanacos, llamas, alpacas, vicuñas, and guanacos) or equines (such as horses, zebras, and asses).
There is a camel dairy in Ramona, California, but I don't believe that they were ever able to obtain a permit from the state to sell the milk for human consumption. California is not exactly the most agriculture-friendly state in the country.
http://www.cameldairy.com/
You might be able to find alpaca and llama milk products in a few places in the Andes of South America.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Thank you, Tex!! Actually, the dairy I miss most is cheese, cream cheese and sour cream. Years ago in college (Cal Poly, the "Aggies", hehehe - our large CA valley is quite agricultural!!) I had goats and chickens, living off the land, etc. so milked my goats and enjoyed raw goat's milk. After that lifestyle changed, I never again was able to drink or enjoy milk. (Although I did love the Starbuck's cafe mochas!!) As with the rest of you ... giving up whatever it takes to stop the inflammation and damage from that is what I will do. I was just curious about the differences in dairy products and why they ALL need to be avoided for people with MC (and most people, apparently) ... and everyone here has been wonderful, providing detailed, informative and extremely interesting responses! Thank you!!
~ Holly
PS ... my maternal GG Grandfather Henry Clay Williams was a Civil War cavalry veteran, Texas ranger, cattleman, and co-founder of Lorena, Texas, so my Texas roots run deep, too!
~ Holly
PS ... my maternal GG Grandfather Henry Clay Williams was a Civil War cavalry veteran, Texas ranger, cattleman, and co-founder of Lorena, Texas, so my Texas roots run deep, too!
2015 Hashimoto's, MTHFR
2016 LMC, Malabsorption
2017 Lymphocytic Dermatologic Vasculitis
"I strive to live in my heart, not in my head!"
2016 LMC, Malabsorption
2017 Lymphocytic Dermatologic Vasculitis
"I strive to live in my heart, not in my head!"
It does have a nice ring to it, doesn't it. 
I'm afraid that ass cheese would probably be a hard sell though.
Tex
I'm afraid that ass cheese would probably be a hard sell though.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.