Credit where credit is due!
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
Hi Tex, Vanessa, Diana and all:
In looking at my ReMag bottle and also Dr. Dean's book "The Magnesium Miracle", here are some observations: Under ingredients of the ReMag, the magnesium is listed this way: "Ionic Picometer size Magnesium from Ionized Magnesium Chloride". And yes, the serving size of 1/2 tsp is listed equal to "150 mg Magnesium (Elemental)". The Concentration is listed as "60,000 ppm (parts per million)".
On page 243 of her book, under "Magnesium Supplement Absorption", she says "The amount of magnesium your tissues can readily use is based on how soluble the magnesium product is and the amount of elemental or ionic magnesium that is released." Over the next few pages, she talks about many technical things way over my head, such as "stability constant values", and the importance of having correct pH and stomach acid to be able to absorb various forms of magnesium supplements, which may be part of the reason why, for many of us, finding a magnesium product that works for us can be so challenging.
Dr. Dean puts picometer magnesium virtually in a separate sub-category from other forms of mag supplements. This might be interesting for Vanessa, where she talks on page 245 about combining picometer magnesium with magnesium taurate: "Magnesium taurate is a special combination of the amino acid taurine and magnesium that has special properties for the heart. ... Taken together in this combination, magnesium and taurine have a synergistic effect, stabilizing cell membranes, calming the nervous system, and inhibiting nerve excitation ... In a series of studies ... it appears that the amino acid taurine is important for heart health and may help prevent arrhythmias ..."
Here's what she says about magnesium chloride in general (page 245): "Magnesium chloride is a form of magnesium that comes in capsules, powder, picometer magnesium and IV solution. Some say it may be the best magnesium for ingestion. That's because minerals need to be dissolved in gastric acid to go into solution. And, magnesium chloride has extra chloride molecules to produce hydrochloric acid in the stomach to enhance its absorption."
On page 250 she sort of summarizes: "Picometer magnesium, then IV magnesium, then magnesium oil are the most absorbable forms of magnesium in that order. Next comes magnesium glycinate, magnesium taurate, and magnesium orotate. A very close fifth is magnesium citrate, but since it's usually cheaper than other oral forms, it's become the most popular. Magnesium oxide is a distinct sixth and very poorly absorbed, but it makes a great laxative."
On page 247 she adds that most medical studies on magnesium are done using magnesium oxide, which is a shame due to its very poor rate of absorption. At about 4% absorption, a 500 mg capsule of magnesium oxide, providing 300 mg elemental magnesium, in reality would only equate to about 12 mg magnesium being absorbed, with the remaining 288 mg staying in the gut and creating a laxative effect.
"Imagine how much more favorable the results would be if a more absorbable form of magnesium such as picometer magnesium were used."
She goes on to say on page 241, "When you look at the amount of elemental magnesium in various supplements, you see that magnesium oxide seems to have a higher amount of available magnesium; however, studies have shown that only about 4 percent of that amount is absorbed. We are told that about 50 percent of magnesium in foods and water is absorbed. All other supplements range somewhere in between.
"Chelated magnesium, bound to organic amino acids, is better absorbed than magnesium oxide but is more expensive. Complementary medicine practitioners rely on chelated magnesium, such as magnesium glycinate, taurate, and orotate, to treat serious cases of magnesium deficiency."
Also on page 241, Dr. Dean describes picometer magnesium: "Picometer magnesium is a non-laxative liquid form of magnesium that is fully absorbed at the cellular level making it highly therapeutic." She treats it as a unique form of magnesium chloride. She also mentions on page 240, that "Even non-laxative picometer magnesium will cause the laxative effect when you reach saturation and take more than you require."
This is too scientific for me to understand, but what I'm suggesting is that it comes across to me that her picometer magnesium, while it may be originally derived from a form of magnesium chloride, is elementally changed to the point where Dr. Dean considers it to be a unique form of supplementation, with extremely high absorption capabilities. She also states that magnesium chloride is usually the form of magnesium used in magnesium oils and sprays.
Whew, time for a nap!! This is definitely Tex's area, and I'll leave it to him!! (But agree, finishing his latest book should be priority #1!!)
~ Holly
In looking at my ReMag bottle and also Dr. Dean's book "The Magnesium Miracle", here are some observations: Under ingredients of the ReMag, the magnesium is listed this way: "Ionic Picometer size Magnesium from Ionized Magnesium Chloride". And yes, the serving size of 1/2 tsp is listed equal to "150 mg Magnesium (Elemental)". The Concentration is listed as "60,000 ppm (parts per million)".
On page 243 of her book, under "Magnesium Supplement Absorption", she says "The amount of magnesium your tissues can readily use is based on how soluble the magnesium product is and the amount of elemental or ionic magnesium that is released." Over the next few pages, she talks about many technical things way over my head, such as "stability constant values", and the importance of having correct pH and stomach acid to be able to absorb various forms of magnesium supplements, which may be part of the reason why, for many of us, finding a magnesium product that works for us can be so challenging.
Dr. Dean puts picometer magnesium virtually in a separate sub-category from other forms of mag supplements. This might be interesting for Vanessa, where she talks on page 245 about combining picometer magnesium with magnesium taurate: "Magnesium taurate is a special combination of the amino acid taurine and magnesium that has special properties for the heart. ... Taken together in this combination, magnesium and taurine have a synergistic effect, stabilizing cell membranes, calming the nervous system, and inhibiting nerve excitation ... In a series of studies ... it appears that the amino acid taurine is important for heart health and may help prevent arrhythmias ..."
Here's what she says about magnesium chloride in general (page 245): "Magnesium chloride is a form of magnesium that comes in capsules, powder, picometer magnesium and IV solution. Some say it may be the best magnesium for ingestion. That's because minerals need to be dissolved in gastric acid to go into solution. And, magnesium chloride has extra chloride molecules to produce hydrochloric acid in the stomach to enhance its absorption."
On page 250 she sort of summarizes: "Picometer magnesium, then IV magnesium, then magnesium oil are the most absorbable forms of magnesium in that order. Next comes magnesium glycinate, magnesium taurate, and magnesium orotate. A very close fifth is magnesium citrate, but since it's usually cheaper than other oral forms, it's become the most popular. Magnesium oxide is a distinct sixth and very poorly absorbed, but it makes a great laxative."
On page 247 she adds that most medical studies on magnesium are done using magnesium oxide, which is a shame due to its very poor rate of absorption. At about 4% absorption, a 500 mg capsule of magnesium oxide, providing 300 mg elemental magnesium, in reality would only equate to about 12 mg magnesium being absorbed, with the remaining 288 mg staying in the gut and creating a laxative effect.
"Imagine how much more favorable the results would be if a more absorbable form of magnesium such as picometer magnesium were used."
She goes on to say on page 241, "When you look at the amount of elemental magnesium in various supplements, you see that magnesium oxide seems to have a higher amount of available magnesium; however, studies have shown that only about 4 percent of that amount is absorbed. We are told that about 50 percent of magnesium in foods and water is absorbed. All other supplements range somewhere in between.
"Chelated magnesium, bound to organic amino acids, is better absorbed than magnesium oxide but is more expensive. Complementary medicine practitioners rely on chelated magnesium, such as magnesium glycinate, taurate, and orotate, to treat serious cases of magnesium deficiency."
Also on page 241, Dr. Dean describes picometer magnesium: "Picometer magnesium is a non-laxative liquid form of magnesium that is fully absorbed at the cellular level making it highly therapeutic." She treats it as a unique form of magnesium chloride. She also mentions on page 240, that "Even non-laxative picometer magnesium will cause the laxative effect when you reach saturation and take more than you require."
This is too scientific for me to understand, but what I'm suggesting is that it comes across to me that her picometer magnesium, while it may be originally derived from a form of magnesium chloride, is elementally changed to the point where Dr. Dean considers it to be a unique form of supplementation, with extremely high absorption capabilities. She also states that magnesium chloride is usually the form of magnesium used in magnesium oils and sprays.
Whew, time for a nap!! This is definitely Tex's area, and I'll leave it to him!! (But agree, finishing his latest book should be priority #1!!)
~ Holly
2015 Hashimoto's, MTHFR
2016 LMC, Malabsorption
2017 Lymphocytic Dermatologic Vasculitis
"I strive to live in my heart, not in my head!"
2016 LMC, Malabsorption
2017 Lymphocytic Dermatologic Vasculitis
"I strive to live in my heart, not in my head!"
Sure. It can be done by electrolysis, for example. Electrolysis would ionize the elements in the compound.Vanessa wrote:Can you derive pure mag from mag chloride?
From Holly's post, the descriptive phrase "equal to" says it all. IOW, even though it's only 25 % magnesium, most people absorb it well enough that they get the equivalent of taking 4 times as much conventional magnesium supplements. So she is listing the equivalent amount (in terms of conventional forms of magnesium), rather than the actual amount. Apparently she doesn't make that clear enough (since we were all mislead by the description).
This is another chapter in the confusion surrounding magnesium. It's similar to the confusion caused by the practice of many manufacturers when they list the amount of magnesium in their tablets in terms of "doses" rather than per tablet.
Dr. Dean is quite correct that most research is based on magnesium oxide, the poorest form of magnesium available, simply because it's cheap, and it's been around forever. If you look at the magnesium stocked by hospitals for example, guess what they use? That's right — they use magnesium oxide. That's why most doctors are sure that all magnesium causes diarrhea — they're only familiar with the worst possible choice (magnesium oxide), and that's why it's used in so many treatment trials.
Magnesium chloride can be extracted from brine or sea water. Remember when people used to travel for many miles to take advantage of the healing property of "mineral waters" from certain springs in various areas of the country, and in certain salt water lakes or seas? That sort of faded from popularity about a generation ago. Magnesium deficiency has been mostly untreated since then.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
- Gabes-Apg
- Emperor Penguin
- Posts: 8332
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:12 pm
- Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia
in line with this discussion
in the case of the zinc, The total content of absorbed zinc per drop (1ml) is 1.06 mg/drop.
Holly - glad you are enjoying Dr Deans book - it is a great resource..
From my Chiro/kinesiologist I am getting ionised Magnesium drops and ionised Zinc dropsSure. It can be done by electrolysis, for example. Electrolysis would ionize the elements in the compound.
in the case of the zinc, The total content of absorbed zinc per drop (1ml) is 1.06 mg/drop.
Holly - glad you are enjoying Dr Deans book - it is a great resource..
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
Hi, Gabes!
So interesting about the special zinc and magnesium drops you're getting, and hoping that they are a great help to you! Do you put them in water or are they sublingual? Yes, I devoured Dr. Dean's book in a day, while Tex's book took me 2 days!! And of course I refer back to both constantly. The range of topics in my "home library" is expanding in a most unusual way!!
~ Holly
PS ... I wrote a poem about Magnesium in the Potty People Poetry section of the forum ... my first attempt at creativity in quite awhile!!
So interesting about the special zinc and magnesium drops you're getting, and hoping that they are a great help to you! Do you put them in water or are they sublingual? Yes, I devoured Dr. Dean's book in a day, while Tex's book took me 2 days!! And of course I refer back to both constantly. The range of topics in my "home library" is expanding in a most unusual way!!
~ Holly
PS ... I wrote a poem about Magnesium in the Potty People Poetry section of the forum ... my first attempt at creativity in quite awhile!!
2015 Hashimoto's, MTHFR
2016 LMC, Malabsorption
2017 Lymphocytic Dermatologic Vasculitis
"I strive to live in my heart, not in my head!"
2016 LMC, Malabsorption
2017 Lymphocytic Dermatologic Vasculitis
"I strive to live in my heart, not in my head!"
- Gabes-Apg
- Emperor Penguin
- Posts: 8332
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:12 pm
- Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia
Holly
I do put the drops in water - each day I make a liquid up with magnesium drops, zinc drops, iodine drops and sip it through the day.
I have dropped a drop or two on my tongue but it is a very strong metallic taste.
I use the topical mag and zinc tablets in addition to this.
I do put the drops in water - each day I make a liquid up with magnesium drops, zinc drops, iodine drops and sip it through the day.
I have dropped a drop or two on my tongue but it is a very strong metallic taste.
I use the topical mag and zinc tablets in addition to this.
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama