Flu vaccine? Not for me.

[Lilja]

terre

I did get the shingles vaccine A few years back and never checked into it but now I am more cautious .The flu vaccine covers 3 or 4 strains.
I did get the flu vaccine for quite A few years and still got the flu so that strain was not in the vaccine
If everyone believed their GI about food has nothing to do with MC where would we be now?



Lilja

That's interesting does your government have more control over the pharmaceutical industry than the US

Terry

Yes, they have control. Some would say too much control. We have a regulated society - in fact, a very transparent society and government, who don't allow advertising for medications - if it be vaccines, hay fever or headache medications.

But, controlling a small country of 5 mill people is easy.

Lilja

[tex]

Lilja,

I agree with Terre. The people of Norway are just smarter than we are in this country. And Norway's pharmaceutical industry apparently doesn't team up with the medical community to try to convince the public to spend money on vaccines that they don't actually need.

By constantly promoting flu vaccines in the U. S., this prevents most people from ever building up a natural immunity to the primary strains of flu virus. That guarantees that there will always be a market for the vaccines, because resistance will remain generally low in the general population for every flu strain that comes along.

But this is one of the side effects of the medical community's ongoing campaign to prescribe immune system suppressants to as many people as possible. They prescribe powerful immune system suppressants for just about anything more serious than a hangnail, these days. And that strategy is great job insurance for all medical professionals. Without a healthy immune system, humans are sitting ducks for every pathogen that comes along. Ever wonder why all of a sudden so many people are dying from simple infections that caused nothing worse than a digestive system upset back in the "good old days"? A few decades ago, people didn't die from E. coli found on vegetables, or listeria in ice cream. Back then, most people still had a working immune system.

I can see the use of immune system suppressants for organ transplants — that's a necessary evil. But using them for arthritis, or IBDs, or whatever — that's just asking for trouble. Especially when you consider that most cases of arthritis and IBD can be treated by diet changes.



Tex

[Gabes-Apg]

Australia seems to be in the middle of Norway and America.

there is some encouragement but not the 'borderline brainwashing' that seems to be happening in the USA.

[T]

Well said Tex I agree

I rember many years ago my PCP was prescribing A med for me and said have you ever seen the commercial on tv about this med.
I replied no I pay no attention to them.
I believe they should not be allowed on commercials .
In my area the big parma.reps visit the Dr's offices around three times A week to push their meds and they always have the lunch catered for everyone in the office and I was told that one time they ate Chinese that came from 50 miles away .


Terry

[tex]

there is some encouragement but not the 'borderline brainwashing' that seems to be happening in the USA.

Exactly! It's almost embarrassing to have a doctor appointment during the fall and winter. I sometimes feel guilty telling them "no" because you know that they all picture me as a modern day equivalent of Typhoid Mary after that.

Don't get me wrong, I definitely think the vaccine should be available for anyone who wants it. But it's kind of bizarre the way they turn it into a huge promotional campaign as if it's actually going to save thousands of lives. The local hospital system even keeps tabs on doctors who don't achieve at least 85 % (I think that was the minimum tolerance level last year) compliance among their patients. I'm not sure what the penalty is for doctors who don't make the minimum, but that's ridiculous.

The CDC doesn't even keep track of the number of adult deaths due to flu, let alone the number of cases of the flu. I believe they do monitor pediatric deaths from flu. But if it causes so many deaths every year (as they claim), why aren't all those deaths important enough to keep a head count? They keep tabs on all other major mortality risks.

Terry, I definitely agree — healthcare in America took a huge step backward when the legislature (in their infinite wisdom) legalized TV ads for drugs. Doctors no longer select medications for treatments — drug companies and insurance companies make the decisions. How many commercials begin with, or include the phrase somewhere, "Ask your doctor about". So naturally doctors feel obligated to learn about the drugs (from drug company reps, of course) and if the insurance companies (or the patients) agree to pay for them, the doctors prescribe them. It's a free-for-all for the drug companies, with taxpayers and patients footing the bill. Drug companies spend a fortune on TV ads every year, and patients willingly pay for them.



Tex

[dhouts]

Here's a quote from my friend who is a D.O. regarding the shingles vaccine. "I do not think it works that well. It is 50 times the dose of the chicken pox vaccine."

And from what I understand, the shingles vaccine is only 50% effective.

[jessica329]

I agree, Tex, that vaccines are pushed too much. I feel that there needs to be a thoughtful and educational discussion between a doctor and patient/parents regarding vaccination. And drugs should NEVER be advertised on TV or peddled. The current medical system is in a sad state of affairs.

[tex]

Diana,

My advice on the best way to avoid shingles is to keep our immune system healthy and happy by avoiding magnesium and vitamin D deficiencies. According to my research, shingles may be the result of a mast cell event. Both magnesium deficiency and vitamin D deficiency can allow mast cell events. Conversely, both magnesium and vitamin D can suppress inappropriate mast cell activity.

Tex

[tex]

I agree, Tex, that vaccines are pushed too much. I feel that there needs to be a thoughtful and educational discussion between a doctor and patient/parents regarding vaccination. And drugs should NEVER be advertised on TV or peddled. The current medical system is in a sad state of affairs.

You know, I find it very interesting that our government (with the blessing of the medical community) fights TV ads that target kids for foods that contain too much sugar, or fat, or whatever, but they are willing to throw vulnerable adults to the "wolves" (namely the drug companies). I have absolutely no doubt that adults who are searching for a solution for pain, or other symptoms, are just as vulnerable to being mislead by "snake oil" sales pitches on TV as the kids who are vulnerable to ads for "unhealthy" food. If kids require government protection, why shouldn't adults have the same protection. Despite claims to the contrary, most of us are just grown up kids.

Legislators have no qualms about outlawing tobacco ads. Apparently the drug industry has more money to pay it's lobbyists (and to provide incentives to legislators) than the tobacco industry. But a major distinction here is that the medical community supports the drug industry (while opposing the tobacco industry).

It bothers me a lot that the medical community too often gets involved in the "politics" of heavily promoted or even mandatory vaccinations. They like to "think" that they actually understand human health well enough to recommend long-term health policies, and this misleads governments into thinking that they can mandate health by passing laws to require certain preventative measures.

For example, both government and the medical community credits smallpox vaccination with saving many lives. But the actual history of smallpox vaccines disputes that claim. Hopefully the vaccines used today are much better than those used in the past, but here's a very interesting history of misguided efforts that resulted in mandatory inoculations for smallpox. As you can see in the article, the results were rather disastrous, for the most part.

http://www.vaclib.org/legal/MTstate/smallpox.pdf

Tex

[SusanneK]

This subject has me thinking...

I volunteer at a cancer center with my therapy dog and I am required to have a flu shot to visit there during the winter months. I have had a flu shot maybe four times in my life (not my choice, but required either through work or volunteering), and I don't recall it making me sick, but with my recent diagnosis, I wonder if it is worth the risk.

I have never had the flu in my life, with or without a shot. But there is no exception to their rules. So maybe I'd be better off not going there during the winter months.

[tex]

Susanne,

In defense of the vaccines, most people who have an adverse reaction to a flu vaccination apparently have mast cell activation disorder (MCAD) aka mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS) which makes their immune system unusually sensitive to the provocation caused by the vaccine. An adverse reaction is a relatively rare occurrence, so the risk is considered to be statistically insignificant. Of course if it happens to one of us then it's certainly not insignificant to us.

A significant percentage of us appear to have mast cell activation disorder, but our level of activity waxes and wanes with histamine exposure and other influences, so that just because we have MCAD does not mean that we will have an adverse reaction to a flu shot. Luck (timing) apparently plays a huge role in determining whether a risk turns into an adverse event.

Personally, I have MCAD and these days I have to watch my histamine intake carefully, even though I take an antihistamine daily. I've never had a flu shot in my life, but if a really deadly strain ever evolved and began to spread, and the drug companies had a vaccine that was actually very effective against it, I would probably opt to get the shot. But my main line of defense would be a supply of high-potency vitamin D (50,000 IU per capsule) in case I needed it. If I thought that I was coming down with a deadly strain, I would take 150,000 IU of vitamin D daily, beginning as soon as I identified/recognized the symptoms, and continue that dose until the symptoms began to resolve. That's a therapeutic dose recommended by the vitamin D council, FWIW.

But in all honesty, based on the studies I've seen, most of the flu vaccines they offer are so ineffective (especially for older people) that if they ever came up with a vaccine that was truly effective against a deadly form of the flu that was rapidly spreading, I would probably faint from the shock. Logistically, they are very, very unlikely to develop an effective vaccine and get enough doses produced in time to save most of us. My confidence in the CDC is so low that it's almost off the charts, and apparently I'm not the only one who has trouble believing most of the claims made by the CDC these days. They seem to have evolved into a good example of money down a rat hole. But that's just my opinion, based on their performance (or lack of performance)

The bottom line is, I wouldn't be afraid of getting a flu jab (unless I was currently having serious mast cell issues at the time), but I wouldn't have much confidence that it would protect me from the flu, either. Flu viruses can mutate and evolve very quickly — much faster than the drug companies can respond.

Tex

[SusanneK]

I went ahead and got my flu shot on Oct. 31 which was the deadline. The alternative was to either stop volunteering or wear a face mask while there, and neither of those appealed to me. Besides, I've been feeling really well for months now so I'm more brave about everything. Other than a slightly sore shoulder, I've had no reaction to it.

I do agree with you, Tex, and wouldn't dream of getting the shot if it wasn't mandatory. It's just another money maker. At least mine was free.

[tex]

Thanks for the update. It's good to hear that it went well.

Tex

[LauraAnn]

Last year I asked my dermatologist if I should get the shingles shot and he said it was a 50 to 50 thing. He didn't recommend it for me. I have never been able to confirm if I ever had the chicken pox and I never ever have had a fever blister, so have opted out on that shot. On the the flu shot issue......when I was teaching in high school ( retired now) I got one every year. But this year I'm going to pass because of the "egg" thing. I'm not out in the public all that much, so maybe it won't be an issue.

[Marcia K]

The last time I got the vaccine (prior to LC) I felt flushed and like I was having an out of body experience. I felt mean. I know that sounds odd but it was a horrible feeling. I decided then and there that I would not get it again. I work in long term care where there is a big push by the Infection Control Nurse that all employees be vaccinated. So far it is not mandatory but I'm sure that will happen down the line. I do not work directly with the residents so I feel it should be my choice. I have not had the flu, while many who received the vaccine had it last year. I don't know what I will do if it becomes mandatory in order to work there.