Gabes-I know from reading here it can take as much as 6 months to resolve mag deficiency, how long did it take to resolve the B6 deficiency? And how much B6 were you taking?
I believe B6 is important for the methylation cycle(suzycohen.com) so I'm wondering is there a relationship between the methylation cycle and histamines/mast cell issues?
Christina
Too much to wrap my head around
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
Chlristina,
According to my research, it's vitamin B-6 that determines how much magnesium is absorbed into muscle cells for storage.
Furthermore, excess histamine in circulation is normally purged by diamine oxidase enzyme. If diamine oxidase is deficient, or if it's action is compromised, histamine continues to build up, leading to problems associated with excess mast cell numbers and mast cell degranulation. Diamine oxidase requires vitamin B-6 for activation.
Tex
According to my research, it's vitamin B-6 that determines how much magnesium is absorbed into muscle cells for storage.
Furthermore, excess histamine in circulation is normally purged by diamine oxidase enzyme. If diamine oxidase is deficient, or if it's action is compromised, histamine continues to build up, leading to problems associated with excess mast cell numbers and mast cell degranulation. Diamine oxidase requires vitamin B-6 for activation.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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Gabes-Apg
- Emperor Penguin
- Posts: 8332
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:12 pm
- Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia
Christina
as Tex has described above the reasons why, there is a HUGE link between B6, methylation and histamine/mast cell.
in the methylation section of the forum are some discussions like this one
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=21065
and this link
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=21361
women have the additional factor that hormone fluctuations deplete B6.
A discussion only this week with my chiro/kinesiologist about B6 and histamine. Autism children have b6 deficiency /use alot of B6 and tend to have lots of allergy symptoms
one of the first solid foods people give children is banana, and if it is overripe, gets alot of air, then it will be high histamine, further depleting the B6.
She had not connected the dots on that one until I shared what I knew, she is now going to suggest some eating plan changes for those children to lower histamine ingredients.
as Tex has described above the reasons why, there is a HUGE link between B6, methylation and histamine/mast cell.
in the methylation section of the forum are some discussions like this one
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=21065
and this link
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=21361
women have the additional factor that hormone fluctuations deplete B6.
A discussion only this week with my chiro/kinesiologist about B6 and histamine. Autism children have b6 deficiency /use alot of B6 and tend to have lots of allergy symptoms
one of the first solid foods people give children is banana, and if it is overripe, gets alot of air, then it will be high histamine, further depleting the B6.
She had not connected the dots on that one until I shared what I knew, she is now going to suggest some eating plan changes for those children to lower histamine ingredients.
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
-
heidiiiii5
- Little Blue Penguin
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:13 pm
- Location: CT
Where can I find the information on how much daily B6 to take and how to it? I have learned the hard way that there are certains things I cannot eat. Yesterday was a bad day. I am guessing I will have many painful days ahead because of what I have eaten.
I need to work with what I have been given. I have proven to myself that I can change my way of eating as a lifestyle and not a diet. Just so many more foods to avoid. I am working off of Low carb high fat because of the diabetes so some things you all can eat, I cannot (starches). This is why I know my blood sugar issues is also because of my gut. Most people that eat this way can get off all their meds. I am still on my insulins but much much lower doses. We did give it a try without it but they could not be controlled (dawn effect). I have had T2 for 15 years and damage to my pancreas is probably also the reason. I could have the test to see what my pancreas cells are like but right now..today..I dont want to know. As I steadily lose weight (was 287. today 222), I will see how my numbers go.
I have alot of comorbidities (i hate that word) but I am still able to go about my day to day life. Some days are slower then others, like yesterday, but I do not allow the moss to grow under my feet for too long.
Back to reading!
I need to work with what I have been given. I have proven to myself that I can change my way of eating as a lifestyle and not a diet. Just so many more foods to avoid. I am working off of Low carb high fat because of the diabetes so some things you all can eat, I cannot (starches). This is why I know my blood sugar issues is also because of my gut. Most people that eat this way can get off all their meds. I am still on my insulins but much much lower doses. We did give it a try without it but they could not be controlled (dawn effect). I have had T2 for 15 years and damage to my pancreas is probably also the reason. I could have the test to see what my pancreas cells are like but right now..today..I dont want to know. As I steadily lose weight (was 287. today 222), I will see how my numbers go.
I have alot of comorbidities (i hate that word) but I am still able to go about my day to day life. Some days are slower then others, like yesterday, but I do not allow the moss to grow under my feet for too long.
Back to reading!
Heidi,
If you haven't read this post, I highly recommend it for the solid, useful information it contains.
My story
Many of us find that we are not only low on B-6, but also the active forms of B-12 and B-9. Blood tests often show that we have normal or high levels of these vitamins, but our body is actually starved for the active forms of the vitamins. This is because methylation issues compromise the ability of our body to convert the inactive forms of these vitamins into the active forms. There are many different forms of methylation issues, but they are very common, especially among AI patients. Many of us have ordered the 23andme test in order to track down our specific methylation issues.
Because of years of untreated gluten sensitivity before I figured out the problem (no thanks to my doctors for never even looking for gluten sensitivity), I have peripheral neuropathy. I've been taking a prescription product known as Metanx for over 7 years now. Metanx was developed to treat peripheral neuropathy in diabetes patients, but it also treats endothelial dysfunction, improves cognizance, and has other benefits. It also treats the brain fog that often accompanies active MC. It contains a balanced combination of the active forms of vitamins B-12, B-9, and B-6.
Because of the "Affordable Care Act", in recent years Metanx has become a much more expensive product. In post number 5 in the thread at the following link, I list a way to formulate the balance of ingredients in Metanx by using OTC products that can be ordered on Amazon or other sites. Metanx is easier to use because it's a single capsule, but making up the OTC equivalent cuts the cost by about half. More than a few of us here either use Metanx or we "compound" it by using the active forms of individual OTC vitamins based on the information at this link.
Metanx
I hope that this is helpful,
Tex
If you haven't read this post, I highly recommend it for the solid, useful information it contains.
My story
Many of us find that we are not only low on B-6, but also the active forms of B-12 and B-9. Blood tests often show that we have normal or high levels of these vitamins, but our body is actually starved for the active forms of the vitamins. This is because methylation issues compromise the ability of our body to convert the inactive forms of these vitamins into the active forms. There are many different forms of methylation issues, but they are very common, especially among AI patients. Many of us have ordered the 23andme test in order to track down our specific methylation issues.
Because of years of untreated gluten sensitivity before I figured out the problem (no thanks to my doctors for never even looking for gluten sensitivity), I have peripheral neuropathy. I've been taking a prescription product known as Metanx for over 7 years now. Metanx was developed to treat peripheral neuropathy in diabetes patients, but it also treats endothelial dysfunction, improves cognizance, and has other benefits. It also treats the brain fog that often accompanies active MC. It contains a balanced combination of the active forms of vitamins B-12, B-9, and B-6.
Because of the "Affordable Care Act", in recent years Metanx has become a much more expensive product. In post number 5 in the thread at the following link, I list a way to formulate the balance of ingredients in Metanx by using OTC products that can be ordered on Amazon or other sites. Metanx is easier to use because it's a single capsule, but making up the OTC equivalent cuts the cost by about half. More than a few of us here either use Metanx or we "compound" it by using the active forms of individual OTC vitamins based on the information at this link.
Metanx
I hope that this is helpful,
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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Gabes-Apg
- Emperor Penguin
- Posts: 8332
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:12 pm
- Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia
to add to Tex's reply above, please spend the extra money on getting 'active forms' of these items. they are cornerstone of good methylation cycle, and many other aspects of healthy digestion and good cells.
keep in mind that the healing wellness journey is like the spinning plates at the circus, as you work on one thing, the next plate needs attention, and as you get that plate ok, the next one needs attention.. there will be hiccups along the way with things like change of seasons, family events, and various other aspects of 'life'. be prepared for 2 steps forward and 1 step back type of journey.
Reading some of the posts in the success stories area will show this.
when there are setbacks.. this not failure or mistake, it is learning, it is part of the process.
what we have learnt is that unless you live in a bubble in a remote country, life has stresses, we cant avoid them. we have to learn how to live with them and minimise how stress impacts our health. stop breath, relax and be ok with what is.
keep in mind that the healing wellness journey is like the spinning plates at the circus, as you work on one thing, the next plate needs attention, and as you get that plate ok, the next one needs attention.. there will be hiccups along the way with things like change of seasons, family events, and various other aspects of 'life'. be prepared for 2 steps forward and 1 step back type of journey.
Reading some of the posts in the success stories area will show this.
when there are setbacks.. this not failure or mistake, it is learning, it is part of the process.
what we have learnt is that unless you live in a bubble in a remote country, life has stresses, we cant avoid them. we have to learn how to live with them and minimise how stress impacts our health. stop breath, relax and be ok with what is.
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
-
christinafriberg
- Adélie Penguin
- Posts: 84
- Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:13 pm
- Location: oregon
Thanks Tex! I'm slowly getting the bigger picture, this is another piece of the puzzle.
Gabes- Thanks for the links! Interesting about the connection between B6 and Autism. I taught children with disabilities
years ago including children with autistic behavior. One can only hope the medical profession would catch up with the progressive doctors researching vitamin and mineral deficiencies.
Many thanks-Christina
Gabes- Thanks for the links! Interesting about the connection between B6 and Autism. I taught children with disabilities
years ago including children with autistic behavior. One can only hope the medical profession would catch up with the progressive doctors researching vitamin and mineral deficiencies.
Many thanks-Christina
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Gabes-Apg
- Emperor Penguin
- Posts: 8332
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:12 pm
- Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia
Christina
some further food for thought on this (pun intended)
one discussion that Tex and I have had is that for some of us, and I am one of them, MC is actually a symptom not a root cause illness.
pretty much most of my life I have had constant inflammation, major deficiencies with B6, B12, VIt D, magnesium, zinc etc
coupled with chronic illness as a child and excess antiobiotics trashed my gut and immune system.
the long term deficiencies allowed a gradual build up of various toxins and metals, which also feeds the inflammation and immune system struggles.
I think this is why some people struggle to get good remission status with their MC or that it can take a few years, to clear toxins, resolve nutritional deficiencies, methylation cycle etc the body has limited scope to heal or more so limited scope to fully heal.
some further food for thought on this (pun intended)
one discussion that Tex and I have had is that for some of us, and I am one of them, MC is actually a symptom not a root cause illness.
pretty much most of my life I have had constant inflammation, major deficiencies with B6, B12, VIt D, magnesium, zinc etc
coupled with chronic illness as a child and excess antiobiotics trashed my gut and immune system.
the long term deficiencies allowed a gradual build up of various toxins and metals, which also feeds the inflammation and immune system struggles.
I think this is why some people struggle to get good remission status with their MC or that it can take a few years, to clear toxins, resolve nutritional deficiencies, methylation cycle etc the body has limited scope to heal or more so limited scope to fully heal.
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
-
heidiiiii5
- Little Blue Penguin
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:13 pm
- Location: CT
I messaged my pharmacist about the supplements. We will work on that for me. He owns a independent pharmacy so he stocks all kinds of obscure goodies that you would not find at your local CVS.
I messaged the gastro that diagnosed me and told her I am not trying the Pepto. I have neurological issues and I feel like I would be opening myself up to unnecessary side effects. I will work with the new way of eating (woe) and work from there.
I am learning that even some allowable foods are not allowed for me. I ate a very small amount of very very cooked zucchini last night. It didn't take long to tell me that was a bad idea. I feel like I am at square one again. Like the fecal transplant helped with the cdiff but possible kicked me into stomach hell again. It is like last year when I could only eat a handful of things without pain. I will push on. I know it will settle.
If I look back on my FB posts from years past, It is littered with Oh my gut type posts. So I have been suffering for awhile but it only recently became a every day occurrence.
I keep getting reactions to meds. The newest is my Crestor. I have been taking for about 5 years. Long story short, I figured out that it was making my eyelid visibly twitch, and I was having muscle twitches all over my body. I stopped taking it, and it all stopped. I cannot take Lipitor cause it causes leg cramps. So I guess I have to go without.
I messaged the gastro that diagnosed me and told her I am not trying the Pepto. I have neurological issues and I feel like I would be opening myself up to unnecessary side effects. I will work with the new way of eating (woe) and work from there.
I am learning that even some allowable foods are not allowed for me. I ate a very small amount of very very cooked zucchini last night. It didn't take long to tell me that was a bad idea. I feel like I am at square one again. Like the fecal transplant helped with the cdiff but possible kicked me into stomach hell again. It is like last year when I could only eat a handful of things without pain. I will push on. I know it will settle.
If I look back on my FB posts from years past, It is littered with Oh my gut type posts. So I have been suffering for awhile but it only recently became a every day occurrence.
I keep getting reactions to meds. The newest is my Crestor. I have been taking for about 5 years. Long story short, I figured out that it was making my eyelid visibly twitch, and I was having muscle twitches all over my body. I stopped taking it, and it all stopped. I cannot take Lipitor cause it causes leg cramps. So I guess I have to go without.
Heidi,
You won't be missing anything but potential pain and other muscle issues by not taking a statin. They lower cholesterol levels, but research shows that they have no effect on longevity and overall mortality risk. A few years ago, I took simvastatin for about 8 or 9 months and had to stop because it caused my fingers to lock up during the night. It's true that statins can reduce the risk of heart attack in relatively young people, but as we get older, statins only benefit the drug companies that sell them.
Tex
You won't be missing anything but potential pain and other muscle issues by not taking a statin. They lower cholesterol levels, but research shows that they have no effect on longevity and overall mortality risk. A few years ago, I took simvastatin for about 8 or 9 months and had to stop because it caused my fingers to lock up during the night. It's true that statins can reduce the risk of heart attack in relatively young people, but as we get older, statins only benefit the drug companies that sell them.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
-
heidiiiii5
- Little Blue Penguin
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:13 pm
- Location: CT
I have learned that inflammation is the root cause. If you stop with what causes the inflammation (grains, gluten), the cholesterol starts to get better. I have a familial history of heart disease (my father died at age 60 in 1983. Angina) that makes me feel like I should take statins. I know that isnt the case.
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Gabes-Apg
- Emperor Penguin
- Posts: 8332
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:12 pm
- Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia
medications deplete magnesium, the eye twitch you mention, is classic sign of magnesium deficiency
there are times that we need medications until we can make the necessary lifestyle, eating plan changes, and resolve key nutritional deficiencies
increasing magnesium intake is a good way to balance the side effects of the medications
as you work through figuring out your eating plan and do more reading here, reduce inflammation in your body, and start to feel better then you will be ready mentally and emotionally to embrace the medication changes.
there are times that we need medications until we can make the necessary lifestyle, eating plan changes, and resolve key nutritional deficiencies
increasing magnesium intake is a good way to balance the side effects of the medications
as you work through figuring out your eating plan and do more reading here, reduce inflammation in your body, and start to feel better then you will be ready mentally and emotionally to embrace the medication changes.
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
-
christinafriberg
- Adélie Penguin
- Posts: 84
- Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:13 pm
- Location: oregon
Thanks Gabes for the reminder that the healing process can be a slow one. I'll be 70 in a few weeks and as an adult have had lots of migraine meds, dental work, antibotics etc. I have no expectations about when , or even if I can reach remission. But I won't give up! As we say at our house "I'll keep working the problem". Tex, you and others here provide information and insight to help me and many others do just that. Serenity(dictionary definition:composed, content and untroubled) also helps.
Many thanks-Christina
Many thanks-Christina
Tex and Christina,
My functional medicine doc recommended https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywo ... guard+plus
It is Thorne Methyl Guard Plus. It is pricey. $46.00 for 90 pills. Three pills are fairly close to the one pill Metanx formula. It contains riboflavin in addition to the "B"s.
According to wikipedia the type of folate is the same although it goes by a different name. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levomefolic_acid. Levomefolic acid (INN) (also known as L-5-MTHF, L-methylfolate and L-5-methyltetrahydrofolate and (6S)-5-methyltetrahydrofolate, and (6S)-5-MTHF) is the primary biologically active form of folate used at the cellular level for DNA reproduction, the cysteine cycle and the regulation of homocysteine.
I used the Methyl Guard Plus for (one pill per day) for 3 months with no reaction. Now I'm back to the pile up of pills as I still own a lot of these.
Functional med doc said the folate I was taking, Solgar, L Methylfolate Metafolin is not the same (as what is in the Thorne product) but according to Wikipedia it is. I have a lot of the little pills left so I am going to use them up.
My homocysteine tested high, I tested negative to MTFR gene (surprisingly) so functional med doc wanted me take the absorbable B's to bring it down to reduce chance of heart attack. Doc had me taking one of the Methyl Guard Plus which is about a 1/3rd dose of one of the Metanx pills.
I'm not sure how the Thorne prices out compared to the pile up of pills buying the B's separately.
My functional medicine doc recommended https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywo ... guard+plus
It is Thorne Methyl Guard Plus. It is pricey. $46.00 for 90 pills. Three pills are fairly close to the one pill Metanx formula. It contains riboflavin in addition to the "B"s.
According to wikipedia the type of folate is the same although it goes by a different name. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levomefolic_acid. Levomefolic acid (INN) (also known as L-5-MTHF, L-methylfolate and L-5-methyltetrahydrofolate and (6S)-5-methyltetrahydrofolate, and (6S)-5-MTHF) is the primary biologically active form of folate used at the cellular level for DNA reproduction, the cysteine cycle and the regulation of homocysteine.
I used the Methyl Guard Plus for (one pill per day) for 3 months with no reaction. Now I'm back to the pile up of pills as I still own a lot of these.
Functional med doc said the folate I was taking, Solgar, L Methylfolate Metafolin is not the same (as what is in the Thorne product) but according to Wikipedia it is. I have a lot of the little pills left so I am going to use them up.
My homocysteine tested high, I tested negative to MTFR gene (surprisingly) so functional med doc wanted me take the absorbable B's to bring it down to reduce chance of heart attack. Doc had me taking one of the Methyl Guard Plus which is about a 1/3rd dose of one of the Metanx pills.
I'm not sure how the Thorne prices out compared to the pile up of pills buying the B's separately.
Brandy,
Thanks for the info on the Thorne product. The last Metanx I bought (September 6, 2016) cost me $230.26 for 90 capsules. 270 of the Thorne pills would be an equivalent amount of active ingredients, at a cost of $138. So they would cost only 60 % as much as the Metanx ( on an equivalent basis). Or they would be 40 % cheaper, to look at it from the other direction.
I have no idea what my homocysteine level was when I started taking Metanx (7 years ago), but I had it checked last year and it was normal.
Tex
Thanks for the info on the Thorne product. The last Metanx I bought (September 6, 2016) cost me $230.26 for 90 capsules. 270 of the Thorne pills would be an equivalent amount of active ingredients, at a cost of $138. So they would cost only 60 % as much as the Metanx ( on an equivalent basis). Or they would be 40 % cheaper, to look at it from the other direction.
I have no idea what my homocysteine level was when I started taking Metanx (7 years ago), but I had it checked last year and it was normal.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.