Wayne - Gabes - Help Please

[Suzy]

Hi. I'm baffled about what is going on with my magnesium.

My RBC dropped from 5.3 in mid-October to 4.4 on my recent labs even though I take 600mg of Metagenics Magnesium Glycinate daily (spread out over the day), do Epsom salt/Mag Flake foot soaks almost every day, take occasional droppers of Mother Earth Magnesium liquid, and spray myself with Asutra topical magnesium oil morning and night.

(I don't use ReMag as I find even a few drops seems to make my GERD worse, though maybe I should spray it on instead)?

I'd love your wisdom. I'm not taking calcium. I take 2000mg vitamin D daily (my levels are 42.30.)

Thanks so much

[tex]

That's puzzling. But if magnesium is not getting into your cells, it's almost surely due to inadequate vitamin D or insulin resistance. If you don't have diabetes, then if I were in that situation I would try more vitamin D. The average human uses about 5,000 IU of vitamin D per day. During winter it's not likely that you're getting any significant amount of vitamin D from the sun, and getting vitamin D from food has been shown to be only marginally effective. It appears to me that you're taking much more magnesium than you can absorb on only 2,000 IU of vitamin per day.

A blood level of vitamin D of 42 is good, but in the winter I doubt that you can maintain that level on only 2,000 IU per day unless you live at a relatively low latitude and get a lot of sun exposure. 5,000 IU of vitamin D supplementation per day is a safe dose for virtually anyone (according to the Vitamin D Council), and vitamin D helps to treat/prevent GERD. I live in sunny Central Texas, but from fall through spring I take 5,000 IU of vitamin D in order to maintain a good vitamin D level. During the summer I drop it to about 3,000 IU per day.

I hope that this is helpful.

Tex

[Suzy]

Thanks Tex. I do have insulin resistance ...pre-diabetes with an A1C of 6. Maybe that's the cause? I never thought of that. Though I don't (and won't) take any meds for the pre-diabetes...I"m too sensitive to side effects. I just watch what I eat.

I use liquid vitamin D that comes in 2000mg per drop, so it makes sense to up it from one to two drops a day for a total of 4000.

Thanks again.

[tex]

I would back off a bit on the magnesium also because absorbing too much magnesium when it can't be transported to the cells (because of insulin resistance) can overwork the kidneys (because they will have to remove the excess amount). As the magnesium helps to slowly resolve the insulin resistance you will be able to get the magnesium into the cells more effectively and then you will be able to utilize more magnesium. Insulin and magnesium work together to transport nutrients (including magnesium) into the cells).

You might be better off with half as much magnesium for a while, and then slowly increase it again, unless you're sure your kidneys are in tip-top condition (because doubling your vitamin D supplement will allow you to absorb a lot higher percentage of the magnesium that you are taking).

Tex

[Suzy]

Tex thanks so much. The labs I got back today show my BUN is 24 (ideal range is 7-18), so maybe my kidneys are working too hard? Here's what I found online:

"Blood Urea Nitrogen (BUN): Urea nitrogen is a normal waste product in your blood that comes from the breakdown of protein from the foods you eat and from your body metabolism. It is normally removed from your blood by your kidneys, but when kidney function slows down, the BUN level rises. BUN can also rise if you eat more protein, and it can fall if you eat less protein."

I do eat a lot of protein, so maybe that's why my BUN is high.

So, would you suggest 300mg Doctor's Best Magnesium Glycinate pills daily (instead of 600mg) and continue daily transdermal spray/foot soaks for two or three months, then re-test my magnesium and increase from there? I am getting foot cramps -- even during the day -- so I know I'm low -- plus insomnia and anxiety -- (plus heartburn/chest pain, which still may be fall out from getting off a PPI six months ago. That is getting better though).

Also -- would the transdermal mag be easier on my kidneys than oral?

Thank you so much. I trust you more than anyone with an MD after their name.

[tex]

If your EGFR is low (creatinine high) then kidney function is compromised. If your EGFR is normal, then the elevated BUN is probably due to a relatively high-protein diet.

Yes, if I were in that situation I would cut the oral magnesium supplement in half and continue the transdermal treatments, then retest after 2 or 3 months.

Transdermal magnesium is probably slightly easier on the kidneys than oral magnesium, especially when used for treating leg and foot muscles, but it still has to go through the bloodstream in order to get to most cells in the body, so the kidneys would still have to remove any excess left over from that.

You're very welcome.

Tex

[Suzy]

Thank you. What is EGFR?

[tex]

EGFR is short for estimated glomerular filtration rate. It's calculated from creatinine test levels. An EGFR of 60 or above is normal. Below 60 indicates compromised kidney function or kidney disease. An EGFR below 15 is considered to indicate kidney failure.

You're very welcome,
Tex

[Suzy]

Thanks for the clarification. My labs say my Creatinine is 0.60 mg/dL (and the lab range is 0.55-1.02), which I think means my EGFR is normal, yes (it doesn't specifically mention EGFR on the labs)?

In which case, if I understand your post correctly, my elevated BUN is probably due to my high protein diet, so I will cut my magnesium glycinate from 600mg to 300mg a day and keep on with the transdermal and epsom baths but UP my vitamin D from 2000 to 6000mg daily?

Or if my creatinine is normal, would you keep the magnesium at the level I'm taking it (800mg oral plus some transdermal on top of that) and up my vitamin D to 6000mg?

Sorry I'm a little confused if I should lower my magnesium or keep it the same with normal creatinine readings (but up my vitamin D in either case so my body can absorb the magnesium better).



Many thanks.

[Gabes-Apg]

my thoughts are
lower intake of oral magnesium - to about 200mg-300mg ELEMENTAL Magnesium per day (still spread out through day) metagenics would be a reasonable good product absorption wise
keep doing the topical magnesium and foot soaks

for your info the following are 'synergistic nutrients' needed for the body to absorb use magnesium;
B1, B6, C, D potassium

are you taking B6 or P5P (which is active form of B6)?


the other aspect i thought of, - is there a chance that you would have high lead or cadmium in your body ?? high doses of magnesium would be 'clearing' these heavy metal antagonists so you could be using most of the magnesium you are taking.
the sucky part of all this, we have no affordable tests that tell us this info.. listening to our bodies is our best option

[Suzy]

Thanks so much Gabes. I'm taking Intergrative Therapeutics Active B Complex, which has Vitamin B 6 "as pyridoxine HCI and pryidoxal-5 phosphate" 100 mg daily. Is that what you had in mind?

I did have tests that showed lead and cadmium were ok but I have high mercury (probably because I eat a lot of wild fish).

Do you think ReMag can be used topically?

Would you use about 4000 mg Vitamin D with the 300 elemental mag (I just ordered Doctor's Best)?

[tex]

Suzy,

As I said before, I would reduce the oral magnesium to about half. If you take enough vitamin D (6,000 IU is fine), you won't need more than about 300 mg of oral magnesium (plus the topical magnesium) until after you're able to reduce your insulin resistance. There's no point in forcing your kidneys to work harder if there's no benefit from doing so.

Tex

[Suzy]

Got it.Thanks Tex.

How do I reduce the insulin resistance (or will the Vitamin D and magnesium help take care of that?).

I eat a fairly low carb diet -- no grains or dairy. Mainly poultry/fish, good sources of fat, low starch veggies and some potatoes/starchy veg to gain weight (and a small amount of fruit for the same purpose).

[Gabes-Apg]

magnesium is not an antagonist to mercury
(zinc, chromium, manganese and selenium are antagonists to mercury)

according to my nutrient text book the following are key for insulin resistance;
chromium, zinc, Vit D, cysteine, taurine, iodine

home made bone broth will provide good cysteine and taurine

[Suzy]

Thank you!