Fasting THE problem?

[lorinluv]

I started intermittent fasting in April 2016, the big d started in may 2016. I really didn't connect the two.

5 weeks ago I went artificial sweetener free with very minor improvements. Last Monday I went to a 6 ingredient diet, beef, squash, sweet potato, homemade applesauce, banana and green beans. Straight off green beans made me super sick (ate them on day 3). Mind u I'm not eating all day, snack when I get home at 5:30' then dinner. On Friday when I got home, I was sooo hungry, so ordered a pizza, which I snacked on in tiny portions all through the day on Saturday, then had a tenderloin sand which for dinner. Mind u all day, I had been considering my health situation and how to successfully accomplish my needed food goals. So this morning, Sunday, I tell hubby that I think 2 changes were needed. 1. Eat lunch 2. Eat only meat. Then I go to the bathroom (way later in the am than has been the norm) and my poo was wayyyy closer to normal than it has been for over 8 months.

Question? Can fasting as a diet method trigger the onset of Mc?

I feel like I'm on the right track, just need to know if there is a correlation between fasting lifestyle and the onset of mc?

[tex]

Lauria,

I'm not aware of any reason why fasting would trigger MC initially, because there's no question that our paleo ancestors ate whenever they were able to find (or catch, or kill) food. I doubt that they typically ate 3 square meals every day.

Now fasting mixed with colon cleansing routines and things of that sort is a different matter. It's pretty easy to visualize how some of those protocols can increase the risk of developing MC, because they expose the gut to some rather harsh conditions that don't normally occur in nature. Even the cleanout solutions used prior to colonoscopy and sigmoidoscopy exams have been shown to cause MC in some cases (where it did not exist prior to the treatment).

But after MC develops, there can be a downside to fasting in that we tend to do better with numerous small meals each day, rather than one or two big meals each day. I'm not aware of any medical research to back up this claim, but IMO this is true because the inflammation that perpetuates MC interferes with the production of enzymes needed to digest many types of food, especially sugars (carbs). With enteritis we simply cannot produce normal amounts of certain enzymes during any given time period.

Because these enzymes are sort of produced on demand (based on what we have eaten), it seems logical that smaller meals (that require relatively smaller amounts of enzymes) would digest better then larger meals. When larger meals are digested, greater quantities of enzymes are required in a relatively short amount of time, and the digestive system is very likely to run sort of some of the enzymes during the relatively short window of opportunity allowed during the digestive cycle.

Do you see what I'm saying?

Tex

[Gabes-Apg]

in my opinion based on my research and 7 years with this group, any activity that allows for depletion of nutrients - whether that be fasting, other health issues, ongoing stress, excess of toxins, ongoing inflammation (one, some or all of these types of things) is what causes things like MC to start

I dont think that fasting alone would be cause, but in combo with these other things, then yes i could well be contributing to symptoms etc.

The other aspect we have seen here is that good amounts of animal protein are needed for healing - so if the ongoing fasting protocols do not have enough protein then that type of eating plan could be an ongoing contributor to MC not going into remission

[lorinluv]

Couple of follow up questions, but first, my somewhat normal poo was my only movement yesterday, which is almost a bigger deal, 2, I gained 5 lbs over the weekend which I'll assume is my full digestive tract for the most part, I'm not going nuts over that fact, just a piece of information.

When u talk about inflammation, is that not noted in the endoscopy report? My doc, right after the test stated that everything looked fine, and I believe I read here that Tex's initial colonoscopy, where they neglected to collect biopsies, must have appeared normal on visual examination. So what is this inflammation that can't be seen or perceived? If my finger is inflamed, I can see it, ya know?

Also, if the only thing (big assumption, but let's play along) keeping me out of remission is digestive enzymes, then would a supplement like betaine hydrocloride help? Keep in mind that I have had gastric bypass, so altered digestive tract.

Also want to note, that I'm a member of several support groups, and by just being here and willing to share is priceless to me, many thanks

[tex]

When u talk about inflammation, is that not noted in the endoscopy report? My doc, right after the test stated that everything looked fine, and I believe I read here that Tex's initial colonoscopy, where they neglected to collect biopsies, must have appeared normal on visual examination. So what is this inflammation that can't be seen or perceived? If my finger is inflamed, I can see it, ya know?

Actually, during my colonoscopy exam I could see the inflamed patches on the monitor. But they appear as only slightly darker (pink) areas against the normal light pink background of the colon. They are far less pronounced than the grossly inflamed areas visible through the scope when looking at Crohn's or UC. As I said in my posts about this, neither my doc nor I recognized what those inflamed areas represented back in those days because we were unfamiliar with the appearance of MC through a colonoscope. Now we know better — you can see MC through a scope, but you have to know what you're looking for. I get the impression though that most GI docs still don't know how to recognize MC through a scope.

So that's why they call it microscopic colitis — a microscope is necessary for verifying the presence of inflammation in biopsy samples.

Also, if the only thing (big assumption, but let's play along) keeping me out of remission is digestive enzymes, then would a supplement like betaine hydrocloride help? Keep in mind that I have had gastric bypass, so altered digestive tract.

Technically, it's not a deficiency of digestive issues that is keeping you out of remission. Like all the other laboratory symptoms, the lack of adequate enzymes is just one of many symptoms of the inflammation that perpetuates the disease. As with most medical drug treatments, treating the symptoms sometimes provides temporary relief of clinical symptoms, but it's the inflammation that causes all the problems, so eliminating the inflammation is the real solution.

That said, a few members here have found Betaine HCL to be helpful, but we're only talking about a very small percentage who have even tried it, and a relatively small percentage of those who actually found it to be helpful. If I recall correctly, you have a Roux-en-Y gastric bypass. That procedure drastically alters (delays) the way that food is exposed to gastric acid, making it even trickier to predict whether Betaine HCL might be beneficial.

My guess is that yes, it will probably help. By helping, it will partially defeat the purpose of that particular surgical procedure. The purpose of the procedure is to reduce the effectiveness of the part of the digestive process that takes place in the stomach. Boosting gastric acid production will undo some of that reduced effectiveness created by the surgical procedure.

If you decide to try it, please read the suggestions for determining the correct dose by trial and error. A good description can be found under the "How to Figure Out Your Betaine HCL Dose" section at the following website:

How to Supplement with Betaine HCL for Low Stomach Acid

But it might be a good idea to ask your surgeon (or your GI doc) if there is any significant reason why you should not even attempt to use Betaine HCL before you try it, because presumably he or she should have some idea of how a gastric acid supplement might work in such cases.

Tex

[Gabes-Apg]

So what is this inflammation that can't be seen or perceived?

Many people diagnosed with MC did not have noticeable inflammation during the colonscopy.
Also in the case of Mast Cell issues, this is another type of inflammation that is not always visable during scope, and can only be confirmed via biopsy.

MC is a different type of inflammation.
ie the Calprotectin test is one test used to confirm or negate IBD's
Tex wrote this in another discussion recently

While the calprotectin test is useful for detecting inflammation associated with Crohn's disease and UC, unfortunately it rarely shows an elevated test result for MC. Why? Because the calprotectin test result indicates the migration of neutrophils into the intestinal mucosa. Neutophils are significantly involved with the inflammation pattern associated with Cronn's disease and UC, but very little neutrophil infiltration occurs with MC.

[Gabes-Apg]

for the group of a different health issue, i was reading about inflammation and oxidative stress.
this article has good explanation about your swollen finger versus the ongoing inflammation like in MC

NB: this article is not about IBD's

While inflammation helps fight disease and protect parts of the body, it also suspends the body’s normal immune response and certain metabolic processes. While in the short term this is not a problem, in the long term it causes progressive damage.

Chronic systemic inflammation is not confined to a particular tissue, but involves the lining of blood vessels and many internal organs and systems. This inflammatory process is often associated with free radical damage and oxidative stress and may not cause pain, as some internal organs do not relay pain. Because there is no pain, you may not be aware of the serious damage systemic inflammation is causing, often leading to chronic, debilitating and even life-threatening diseases, some of which are listed above.

http://www.beverlynadler.com/html/inflammation.html