Joint pain with MC, what is the reason behind it?

[Jonas]

I probably do not have psoriatic arthritis or arthritis (as I previously thought) when the 3 MRI scans I have done are not able to find any signs of inflammation in either the spine or hip.
So the pain I feel in the joints, muscle attachment, muscles are most likely linked to my microscopic colitis. What may be most likely since it gradually increased during my first year with microscopic colitis.
Do we know what the pain in joints / muscles coming of microscopic colitis is due to?
Is it because of nutritional deficiencies caused by colitis and that becomes more pronounced the longer you go with active disease or is it because proteins from food leaking into the body when the intestine is damaged? Changes in hormones due to MC?
Are there any other theories?
Do anybody know if hair mineral analysis in any way reliable? I did one recently and it proved critical low levels of magnesium, sodium, potassium, iron, selenium.

Those of you who have had this pain and the reduced or lost it what has worked for you?
I have tried dietary changes for several years but it did not reduce or remove the problem for me.

[tex]

Do we know what the pain in joints / muscles coming of microscopic colitis is due to
Is it because of nutritional deficiencies caused by colitis and that becomes more pronounced the longer you go with active disease or is it because proteins from food leaking into the body when the intestine is damaged? Changes in hormones due to MC?

Hello Jonas,

Well, we think we know. I'm not sure if there is any published medical research to verify this (I've never searched) but leaky gut proponents believe that peptides and possible toxins resulting from incomplete digestion are allowed to enter the gut (when leaky gut is present) and since the system was never programmed to handle those items, they are deposited in joints and organs in order to get them out of the blood. Mainstream physicians don't know whether to embrace/accept this theory because of the lack of published medical data.

My own insight on this is that normally, when pathogenic agents enter the blood stream they are detected and destroyed by the immune system (by white cells, such as macrophages), but white cells don't know what to do with food antigens (they have no way to destroy/dispose of them), so those antigens are dumped in joints and organs where they cause inflammation and pain. But you have no inflammation, according to your tests.

So that points the finger of suspicion toward magnesium deficiency, because magnesium deficiency can also cause such pains. However it's also claimed that it causes inflammation (but I'm not so sure that has been indisputably proven).

Fibromyalgia is claimed to be capable of causing joint pain, without causing joint damage or inflammation that would be detectable by scans. But note that magnesium deficiency is often misdiagnosed as fibromyalgia. In fact, in my opinion fibromyalgia does not exist — IMO fibromyalgia is always magnesium deficiency (or a combination of magnesium deficiency plus other vitamin or mineral deficiencies).

Do anybody know if hair mineral analysis in any way reliable? I did one recently and it proved critical low levels of magnesium, sodium, potassium, iron, selenium.

As far as I'm aware, hair provides a reasonably good record of past history (sort of like tree rings). It won't tell you what the current situation is, but it does provide a record of past history. So if hair analysis shows deficiencies, and there's no reason why those deficiencies have been corrected (IOW, no changes in supplementation have been made), then the deficiencies probably still exist. At least that's my view of hair analysis.

I hope that some of this is helpful.

Tex

[Gabes-Apg]

As far as I'm aware, hair provides a reasonably good record of past history (sort of like tree rings). It won't tell you what the current situation is, but it does provide a record of past history. So if hair analysis shows deficiencies, and there's no reason why those deficiencies have been corrected (IOW, no changes in supplementation have been made), then the deficiencies probably still exist. At least that's my view of hair analysis.

to expand on this, it depends on the individual nutrient and the heavy metal result in the hair mineral analysis as to what it is indicating.
it is one of the affordable ways to get strong indicators of what toxic metals you are may be dealing with.

ie low magnesium in hair does not always mean low magnesium in the body.
but low selenium in the hair is a good indicator of selenium deficiency

hair mineral anaylsis also looks at ratios of minerals which is key in the journey of having healthy cells.
for me the combo of hair mineral analysis, with other tests like blood, urine tests - coupled with symptoms etc is indicator of things.

there are good articles written by Dr Lawrence Wilson (one of the guru's of hair mineral analysis)
http://drlwilson.com/Articles/POTASSIUM.htm

http://drlwilson.com/Articles/SELENIUM.htm

Selenium levels can be read in the hair tissue with a fair amount of accuracy. Most hair mineral testing laboratories I have reviewed indicate a normal value between 0.08 and 0.12 mg%. An ideal level is probably 0.12 mg% or 1.2 parts per million. More research is required to clarify this.
Most people’s hair selenium levels are low because selenium is deficient in the diets today. Also, selenium is required for detoxification, and this is a burden today on the bodies of almost everyone. Thus, even more selenium is required.

http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/LOW%20NAK%2011-06.htm

[Gabes-Apg]

joint pain for me is related to inflammation /toxins when I am low on key nutrients

gluten and dairy is common to cause this, but for me excess contact with other inflammatory toxins can cause joint pains
and leaky gut is a big factor in how much impact these toxins can have.

[Jonas]

Thank you for your input!
I was thinking since joint pain are common in Hashimotos and Adrenal fatigue it could a hormonal issue. It seems that in later stages of adrenal fatigue it is very common to get multible food sensitivity (and food sensitivity can lead to adrenal fatigue). So if you are in the later stages of adrenal fatigue and not adressing stress, nutritional deficiencies and so on, that could be the reason for you food sensitivity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnp36GLmJKg
https://adrenalfatigue.org/allergies/

I don't think that it is Fibromyalgia, I been down that track thinking that I had it. But I now know pepole that have it and my pain is different.

Thank you for the links to Dr Lawrence Wilson

Here is a link to my Hair minaral analysis
http://imgur.com/rK6kz5r
http://i.imgur.com/rK6kz5r.jpg

As you can see I am in a four low stage http://www.drlwilson.com/Articles/four%20lows.htm ”In The Tunnel Of Death”

So selenium in the hair is a good indicator, do you know if it is the same with potassium?

Gabes, is you hair mineral analysis results much different from mine?
Have you seen any changes for the better when you retested by hair mineral analysis, since adressing the issue?

[Gabes-Apg]

Jonas
I am not trained to interpret results, most of what I have learnt has been via lots of reading Dr Wilsons articles in the past 18 months.
sadly, I have not done retesting as I have not been able to afford it.

use the search function on Dr Wilsons site and look at info relevant to your results.

and as I said above,

hair mineral anaylsis also looks at ratios of minerals which is key in the journey of having healthy cells.
for me the combo of hair mineral analysis, with other tests like blood, urine tests - coupled with symptoms etc is indicator of things.

it is the whole thing that has helped me for my combo of issues. I see a very knowledgeable practitioner every month (who has fantastic knowledge of cell health, body chemistry, methylation, clearing toxins, etc) who I have been seeing for 16 months. via the combo of tests I have done (hair, bloods, urine etc) and how my body reacts to treatments we have good info to ascertain what is working and what isnt.

[Jonas]

How accurete is blood tests you do at your doctor for zinc, iron, potassium, calcium, magnesium, sodium?
I know that magnesium is not good, but what about the others? Thus anybody know?

[tex]

Jonas,

As far as I'm aware, the rest of those tests work reasonably well. However, as you are aware, potassium, calcium, and sodium are also electrolytes, so they can have testing issues similar to magnesium when measured as serum levels. For example, a couple of years ago when I had a severe magnesium deficiency, even though magnesium deficiency tends to elevate blood levels of calcium, (because excess calcium cannot be easily removed without adequate magnesium), my calcium never tested above the "normal" range. It was higher than normal (for me), but it never became higher than just below the upper limit. Still, I developed kidney stones from the excess calcium. And of course because my calcium level was still "normal", my doctors didn't have a clue why I had problems with kidney stones. And I note that I can still have leg or foot cramps even though those electrolytes are in the "normal" range. So clearly those test results leave something to be desired in terms of accuracy.

Iron is probably best monitored by using a ferritin test. I don't have any experience with zinc testing.

Tex

[Gabes-Apg]

I have found ferritin testing reliable for iron

due to other health issues I have regular blood tests of zinc and copper (and also ceruplasm levels so we can calculate unbound copper) and found these to be very reliable.
of note - although the zinc and copper blood test results may be 'in range' for the individual items. the key thing we look at is that the zinc result is higher than the copper. (which mine isnt)

[Jonas]

The blood sample I have done for all those minerals has all been in the middle of the reference interval now in 2017. Therefore, I thought it was strange that they were so low on hair mineral analysis.

So it is more likely that blood samples give a true picture of my mineral status than the values I got the hair mineral analysis. But that one can use hair mineral analysis to obtain indications.
I'm meeting a functional medicine doctor in six weeks so I will ask her what she thinks. I will also get the results from 23andme then.

[Gabes-Apg]

As I said above
just because an item is in the middle of the reference range in a blood test that is just one indicator - the IMPORTANT aspect of minerals is ratios.

this is where hair mineral anaylsis helps - it gives indicators of ratios, better than blood tests.

also as I said above - SOME of the hair mineral results are good indicators, and some arent. You have to either read the article on Dr Lawrence's website OR have trained practitioner interpret them.