Going Against the Grain

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celia
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Going Against the Grain

Post by celia »

Hi all,

My library doesn't have the Loren Cordain book, but I found another called "Going Against the Grain" by Melissa Diane Smith.

I absolutely LOVED this book because it doesn't focus in on gluten sensitivity alone. It is so comprehensive and well researched. It gives a wonderful explanation of the problem with whole grains which are definitely a trigger for me. It also explains that protein fragments from grains, legumes, dairy foods, and yeast have amino acid sequences that are the same or very similar to human tissue. When they wander around the body due to leaky gut, the immune systems attacks them and, inadvertently, similar body tissue in genetically susceptible people.

Okay, YOU all know that, and I kind of knew that too. But I didn't have this precise explanation. I was so excited after reading this book. It explains a lot for me. Needing to understand is one of my obsessions!

In 2001 I had an elevated glucose level (118) for the first time. My husband and I went on the Zone diet. He lost 40 lbs and corrected his elevated liver values. I lost 20lbs and within months corrected my elevated glucose level. Overtime, we slowly slipped into eating more carbs. In fact, over the last year, erroneously thinking I was reacting to meat, I ate an abundance of non-gluten grains. Now, I REALLY get why that's not a good idea for me. And I fully understand why some of your are so enthused about the Paleo Diet.

I think everyone is biochemically unique, so I don't believe one diet is the answer for everyone. But I'm very happy to have found out the rationale behind the advice to go against the grain!

Many thanks for everyone's help and support. You are all helping me to fine tune and move in the right direction!

Warmly,
Celia
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Post by Peggy »

Hi Celia,

There's also:

"Against the Grain" by Jax Peters Lowell

"Breaking the Vicious Cycle" by Elaine Gottscall, B.A., M. Sc.

and

"When the Body Says No" by Dr. Gabor Mate, M.D.

Which are all good books and have been suggested here on the site in the past.

Happy reading,
Peg
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Post by Lucy »

Celia,
I take it that the Zone Diet is a low carb diet, but what is it's basic premise?
Thanks, Luce
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celia
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Post by celia »

Luce,

The basic premise is that too many carbohydrates raise insulin and make you fat as well as bringing on a number of problematic health conditions. It encourages low carbohydrate fruits and vegetables and moderate portions of meat or vegetarian protein balanced at each meal.

This is from the website:

"The Zone is not some mystical place. It is a state of hormonal balance that can be achieved by your diet. In particular, it can be defined as keeping the hormone insulin in a tight zone: not too high, not too low. The Zone Diet is a life-long hormonal control strategy. Once you begin to think hormonally about food instead of calorically, you begin to realize that many of the dietary recommendations made by the U.S. government and leading nutritional experts are simply dead wrong."

You can find out more at www.drsears.com

Celia
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tex
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Post by tex »

Celia,

You're right, of course. Virtually all of the recommendations made by govenment "experts", (if you can call them that), are focused on fat, fiber, and calorie intake. They seem to use a very elementary approach.

Tex
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It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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Post by Lucy »

Dr. Sears sounds right on to me.
Celia, have you ever dealt with the lab recommended on his website? Sounds as though it can operate independently between you and the lab if necessary.

I was thinking that perhaps that would be a good way to see if being back to a normal stool and being otherwise asymptomatic put me and others into a safer status in terms of inflammation, and it's potential for some pretty nasty diseases in the future.

Like the emphasis on MODERATION!
Sounds as though he's talking about the "Metabolic Syndrome." This is a big topic in the medical circles these days. Just last year, the "Preventive Cardiology Forum" was on the connection between "Metabolic Syndrome and Cardiovascular Disease, the prevention and treatment." This was a year ago this month.

I've heard that an easy way for patients to eat right, is to have them divide their plate into thirds, with each of his recommended foods occupying each of those thirds of a plate. Sometimes people just have to have something simple, and a visual like that is often good as well.

Didn't eat much today, so didn't get the fish oil down. Guess I'll just have to settle for the Omega 3's from a pill this time. I'm hungry too which means that the nerves in my gut must be coming to life a little bit.

Yep, Celia, that circumference of the gut is a real bad sign, particularly in terms of one's likelihood of developing Type II Diabetes.
It's like a medical tsunami waiting to hit us, and it's already a major problem with little kids now.

Thanks for that information. It's nice to know who is writing what these days.
Was this guy one of the earliest popular writers to recommend the fish oil?

Also, I've read that Vitamin A in too high amounts can actually counteract Vitamin D's ability to help calcium to be absorbed by the bones. (Just an FYI, as we need to make sure not to take too much of things that stay in the body and build up as they can become harmful.)

Wonder if his new book on inflammation is at the booksstores yet? I didn't catch the date.

Thanks, Celia. You certainly have studied just about everything that's out there.

By the way, want to venture a guess as to why it's often said that yeast is responsible for our increased permeability in our guts?
If that is the case, one can easily see how th a bunch of carbs just sitting there in the gut would invite trouble.

Once the permeability is there, everything bad gets into the blood stream, and that spells trouble as these are often carcinogens, etc., as well.

OK, what do you think about the yeast as the instigator of increased permeability or do you think that there's something else that triggers off the increased permeability.
I have no idea what the mechanism would be, but perhaps someone as read why this happens. Guess I'm getting back to those questions you asked a few of your threads back the other day.

Thanks. Yours, Luce
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Post by tex »

Luce,

Leaky gut Syndrome is caused by the repetitive excessive intake of certain items in the diet. It is most frequently caused by excessive ingestion of alcohol, and is also caused by the excessive intake of sugar. It can also be caused by other foods ingested in repetitive excess, but I don't recall offhand what else can cause it. I'm sure that repeated exposure to excessive amounts of sugar in my diet caused my leaky gut syndrome.

When one continues to overwhelm the body with certain food items, (such as alcohol, or sugar), eventually the body reaches the point where it can no longer handle the pressure, and it lets some of the partially digested polymer chains through into the bloodstream. Each time that it happens, the threshold is lowered, and it becomes easier to trigger, the next time that an overload is imposed. Once the body reaches the point where LGS is a major problem, the condition can never be reversed.

Candida is simply an opportunist, and takes advantage of the porosity in the gut to run it's roots into and through the pores, which, of course magnifies the LGS problem. I doubt that candida initiates the LGS problem, in most cases, it simply amplifies it.

Wayne
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It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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Post by kate_ce1995 »

I did the zone diet many years ago. It is a pretty good way to moderate your intake. And a lot of the recipies in his books have tons of veggies to fill you up, so you are still eating a large amount of food, but also eating in better proportions and healthier types. He recommends about 3 oz of protien per meal (if I remember right) and suggests eyeballing it by thinking about how much fits in the palm of your hand.

The girl's grandfather had a couple of mild strokes several months ago. They found the cause and he is going to be okay, but in the process his doc gave him a good bit of advice on fat. Look at the fat calories on any packaged food item and multiply it by 3. If its less than the total calories, its okay to eat. This makes total sense with the 30% of calories from fat idea, but I'd never thought about it this way. And boy does that kill many options...potato chips, chocolate bars, etc.

There is so much info out there, sometimes its hard to find the right path. Add in that we are all individuals, and its even harder!
Katy
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Post by Polly »

Hi All!

Celia, you have become a super sleuth! Good detective work.

Another factor that increases the permeability of the gut - LECTINS. Lectins are substances (a mixture of protein and carbohydrates) that have evolved in plants in order to ward off insect predators. They occur in grains and legumes especially and are not broken down by the digestive process; rather, they attach themselves to the cells of the small intestine where nutrient absorption takes place. The lectins in wheat, kidney beans, soybeans, and peanuts have been shown by research to increase intestinal permeability. (As Wayne said, alcohol also does this. Chili peppers too). This is written up in Cordain's book "The Paleo Diet". Celia, have you found this book yet? I know it is one you will want to have on your bookshelf! I think it should be required reading for all physicians.

In my particular case, there are some intolerances that are not as bad as others.......for example, tomato and citrus. It seems that sometimes I can tolerate them and other times not. I am wondering if the problem could be lectins. In other words, when I eat chili, for example, with kidney beans, the tomato bothers me. But when I eat tomato by itself, I am OK? I'll have to pay close attention to this. We have often said here that we wonder if certain COMBINATIONS of foods could be a problem at times. It seems possible that lectins could be behind this observation.

Love,

Polly
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Post by Lucy »

OK, Polly, so the lectins ATTACH to the cells, but what does the sugar DO to cause increased permeability? I should think that this would be a QUICK way to get glucose into the blood stream if one were a caveman running from danger and we know that stress increases permeability in mice, sooo...

Do ALL legumes have alot of lectins in them?

Wouldn't people have come up through the ages with some amount of adaptation to the lectins or did we basicly not start eating them too much until more recently?
Is this in Cordain's book?

Must've been thinking about the yeast connection in IBD's. Usually, one sees that in connection with Crohn's, but has anyone come across anything in your readings about yeast and M.C.?

AND, speaking of SUGAR, I've not had a coke in over three days now, and that was my main nemesis. Way I stopped was to just... well..stop! Still will have an occasional no-nuttin', but delicious little cookie once in a while which isn't sugar free, but just reducing the amount of cokes will be a tremendous help. Now, I can tell that I need to eat more frequently during the day, but just the good stuff.

Also, needed to get rid of carbonated drinks altogether due to the osteoporosis, and the ill effects of that phosphate stuff in 'em. Not good for the teeth either, I wouldn't think.

Still getting a bit of sugar from the rice milk that I'm taking for the calcium, but forgetting to take the supplements or else don't have enough in my stomach when I have time to take 'em.

(Can't take my eyes off Mom for even a second now -- just keeps getting up the minute I turn my back, even on the med she's taking for the hallucinations.

However, if she wasn't on it, she'd be very agitated at this point, so I'm thinking that perhaps she just needs an increase as she's on a very low dose. Ahhhh, the joys of growing older! I think that this is probably at least partly vascular rather than all due to the Parkinson's.)

Polly, have your read that Yeast Connect. Book? Isn't it rather controversial? I was impressed though that the RN who wrote that allergy book that you like, Ms. Hurt, I think her name is, was the second author on the yeast book. Anyone else know anything about that book? It has to do with Candida, and think it's got recipes and dietary suggestions in it. I still see it in bookstores from time to time, and it might still be at Whole Foods stores.

Oh, and Polly, does that mean ALL legumes contain
Two of Cordain's books on Paleo Diet and Paleo for athletes one that Karen has read I've seen at a Barnes and Nobles just last Saturday.

We always seem to want to know WHY about everything, don't we?

Getting excited about the conference in March now. It's mainly the research results that will have everyone on the edge of their chairs, I would think, but a couple of the Saturday lectures are also of interest to me -- one on effects of foods on hormones of the body, and also, Dr. Rea's on environmental allergies. His name sounds very familiar, btw.

One thing I'd like to get from him would be some suggestions for household products that are more natural, and other products that don't give off toxic fumes so much.
Going for the optimum health these days, even if all the exercise I'm getting is chasing and lifting Mom, and routine household stuff that often I don't make it to in a timely fashion, but anyway...

Yours, Luce
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Post by celia »

Hi Luce and Friends,

Luce, do you remember the name of the lab on the Dr.Sears site? I didn't see it when I looked again. The lab that I've used for a comprehenisve stool analysis is Great Smokies Diagnostic Lab (www.gsdl.com). The test provides a wealth of information like markers for inflammation and the levels of yeast, bacteria, and parasites in your stool. Lower levels of some of the above normally occur in the colon, but at higher levels they can be pathogens. It's an expensive test, but it did give me some clues. Of course, it's not 100%.

They also have an intestinal permeability test which was only $65 when I took it last year. It will indicate your level of intestinal permeability and can also indicate malabsorption.

Great Smokies has a wealth of information on their site about different illnesses in relation to their tests, so it's worth a visit just for some of the information....if you are information obsessed like me.

There is also a organic acids tests available at Metametrix lab which whill show if you have bacterial metabolites...I believe in the urine, but not sure. This test is not so cheap either, if I remember correctly. But I haven't had this one done.

For all the above, you need a doctor's prescrption and the results are sent back to your doctor. Working with a naturopath in an integrative medicine clinic with an MD, I'm luck to have access to most of the alternative testing. You can spend a small fortunate on it, so it's good to use discrimination.

I beleive that Dr. Sear's anti-inflam book has been out for a few years. I found you can get his books super cheap buying used copies at Amazon.


About LGS, stress, cafeine, NSAID's can also cause permeability. I beleive certain bacteria are also problemantic, but as Wayne said, not sure if they are a cause or taking an opportunity.

Apparently, the gut is not as impermeable as once thought as they have found permeabity even in healthy individuals. However, with healthy individuals, the immune system gobbles up any protein fragments that have leaked through. When the immune system is weakened that's not necessarily the case, and it can confuse the amino acids seqeunces of certain proteins that have leaked through with certain tissues in our body that have similar sequences. Thus pain, and other symtpoms.

There's a good explanation about lectins in the Going Against the Grain Book. Are you familiar with the Eat Right For Your Type diet? That's based on the theory that people with different blood types react to different lectins which then cause problems. Some people say it's unfounded medically, but who knows!!!! You can find out more about it at www.dadamo.com/

Take care, Celia
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celia
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Cordian book

Post by celia »

Polly,

The book is not in my library system, and I have a moratorium on buying new health books. I've already spent so much money on them! But I am going to look on Amazon and see if I can get a used copy at a reasonable price. I'm really curioius to read it, and really appreciate your encouragement to do so.

All the best,
Celia
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tex
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Post by tex »

Luce,

Our Paleo ancestors did not eat refined sugars, and they ate precious few carbs, (the closest they ever came was when they robbed honey from a bee tree), so there would have been virtually no evolutionary incentive to allow gut permeability in order to boost the sugar level in the blood stream, especially since increased permeability leads to extreme fatigue, and a bunch of other very undesirable symptoms, which could have fatal consequences to a creature fleeing for it's life. Increased blood sugar level response would not be fast enough to help in a short run, and the negative consequences of increased permeability would be very detrimental, (and probably fatal), in a long run.

Grains and legumes were not part of the Paleo diet, and therefore, the human digestive system has not evolved to handle lectins, nor anything else peculiar to grains and/or legumes.

Here is a report on gut permeability with regard to sugar in celiac patients:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... t=Abstract

Here is a reference, (in a discussion about Chronic Fatigue Syndrome), that suggests that eating too much refined sugar weakens the immune system:

http://askwaltstollmd.com/archives/sugar/47746.html

Here is an extensive list of the causes of LGS, from an MS site:

Causes of a leaky gut

* Nutritional deficiencies
* Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (eg. Aspirin, ibuprofen, NSAIDs etc), antibiotics, cytotoxic drugs, H2 receptor agonist drugs, eg Zantec, Tagamet.)
* Toxic pesticide residues/inhaled chemicals/environmental toxins
* Refined sugar
* Candida
* Parasites
* Stress
* Trauma
* Inflammation
* Food allergens
* Lectin, which can cause inflammation of the gut lining
* Free radical damage
* Alcohol and tobacco
* Low secretory IgA intestinal antibodies
* Bacterial secretions
* Sluggish liver - toxic overload from the liver affects the gut and increases permeability
* Lack of Oxygen
* Deficiency in digestive enzymes or hydrochloric acid


This comes from this site:

http://www.msrc.co.uk/index.cfm?fuseact ... pageid=737

Note how familiar the symptoms of LGS listed on this site are to most of us.

Here's a description of how a gut permeability test is done:

http://www.biolab.co.uk/gut.html

Tex
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It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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