Ammonia from amino acids

[christinafriberg]

Erica-In a recent thread you mentioned having high levels of ammonia from amino acids(high protein intake). How did you know you had a high level of ammonia? Were you tested? And you mentioned a supplement you took to correct the ammonia, what was the supplement? I've been 14 months on the stage one diet (lots of turkey and lamb) with some progress but concerned about long term and kidney function. How long did you take the supplement or are you still on it?
Christina

[Erica P-G]

Hi Christina,

Here is what I am taking https://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-l-orn ... n-capsules and I only take it when I am going thru an upped protein moment like when in a flare when we are eating protein at every meal and perhaps substituting protein for snacks etc ...I would think this may resonate with the beginning stages of healing and the large amounts of protein we devour during that time, other than that I only take it now when I plan to partake in a BBQ or know I am going to eat protein often throughout a day on a road trip or in general.

I found its usefulness while getting my Methylation issues under control so I keep a bottle on my shelf regardless if I am taking it daily at the moment.

I didn't have any testing done for this...I basically punted and learned as much as I could about protein and their amino acids and their affect on the body...it wont hurt you to take it and you may even relieve some cells at the same time.

[Erica P-G]

These little blips kinda say it in layman terms...the NIH was high tech for me to share and have anybody understand what it was meaning to say, lol.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/47652 ... in-damage/

http://www.livestrong.com/article/11181 ... er-damage/

[christinafriberg]

Erica-Thanks for the articles and recommendation of the supplement. I'll do a little more research and talk to my Naturopath, just another hurdle in the MC journey.
Thanks again-Christina

[Gabes-Apg]

Christina
in the 'methylation cycle' there are genetic SNP's that can impact if a person creates too much ammonia

so the excess ammonia is 'more likely' to happen if someone has genetic snp on the CBS gene pathway.

CBS
CBS (cystathionine beta synthase) catalyzes the first step of the transsulfuration pathway, from homocysteine to cystathionine. CBS defects are actually an upregulation of the CBS enzyme. This means the enzyme works too fast. In these patients, it's common to see low levels of cystathionine and homocysteine since there is a rapid conversion to taurine. This leads to high levels of taurine and ammonia. The CBS upregulation has been clinically observed to result in sulfur intolerance in some patients. It has also been observed that BH4 can also become depleted with a CBS upregulation. BH4 helps regulate neurotransmitters and mood. Other mutations, such as MTHFR A1298C, Chronic bacterial infections, and aluminum can also lead to low BH4 levels. Lack of BH4 can lead to mast cell degranulation and possibly mast cell activation disorder (MCAD).

http://www.gapeysgrub.com/2013/03/methy ... etics.html

The one I found to be particularly interesting is CBS. This gene is responsible for processing sulfites and ammonia from your body. I happen to have this gene and I'm expecting my lab tests to come back with elevated sulfite and ammonia. The good thing is there are supplements you can take to help with the excess. This was a big ah ha moment. I've been having a lot of problems with high sulfite foods/drink. I even wrote a blog post back in 2011 about my sulfite sensitivities. It's important that this CBS mutation be addressed before MTHFR because the supplements typically used to treat MTHFR (Methyl folate and Methyl B12) increases your sulfites and ammonia and if you are already not processing them well, any methyl supplementation may cause more damage. There are other forms of B12 that can be used instead of methyl like hydroxy and adenosyl that those with CBS may be able to tolerate better. I've been alternating between the two and am doing ok with it so far.

the quickest/cheapest way to confirm if you have issues with the CBS gene, 23andme saliva dna testing and then do the methylation report via genetic genie or livewello.
IMPORTANT TO NOTE: not everyone has an issue with ammonia, and even if you have the CBS genetic marker, it may not be active. The best way to confirm if protein is impacting your kidney is to do kidney function testing and/or urinary ammonia test strips and check.

hope this helps

[HockeyMom]

Geez, something else to worry about since I live on meat and overcooked veggies, no grains. Would all this kidney function stuff be on my last regular blood testing panel Gabes??

Can go grab it out of the files in my basement. I'm going through some crazy flare right now which might be from me trying to cut down on my cholestryamine..dumb idea I think, who knows?? Havent dealt with this for awhile and fortunately I'm off work today and tomorrow as right now it's just a run to the bathroom sort of day. I'm supposed to go to a continuining education course tomorrow and of course the weather is supposed to be crappy and the location of the course is crappy and hard to get to.

Sorry, sort of a bad day around here. Looked online and it seems like all the testing strips are for like pools and aquariums for urine ammonia!! Same stuff??

Laine

[tex]

Laine,

Sorry you're having a flare. Look at your comprehensive metabolic panel result for creatinine. If your creatinine result is above range, your kidney function is compromised. That number is used to calculate the Estimated Glomerular Filtration Rate (EGFR). If that result is not above 60, your kidney function is below par. If it's above 60, you're fine.

Tex

[Gabes-Apg]

quick googling and found this info - my apologies I lead you astray calling them ammonia test strips -


You can also test your own urine for sulfites at home by purchasing sulfite test strips. If urinary sulfates are greater than 800-1000, high CBS activity is likely.
If urinary sulfite levels are too high, she recommends avoiding the following foods and supplements until the problem is under control. This may be difficult, as people with CBS tend to crave sulfur-rich foods:

http://cfsmethylation.blogspot.com.au/2 ... ntrol.html

But there is another twist: by adding more animal protein, my urinary ammonia went up. And this led me on a search to examine other pathways that make or process ammonia. My search led me to NOS (nitric oxide synthase), where I also have a genetic polymorphism (a nice way of saying a defective variation) that slows down the action of this enzyme. But that is another day's discussion!


What to do if you have, or think you could have, a sulfur issue
If you feel worse when you take high sulfur supplements like taurine, MSM, glucosamine sulfate... or antibiotics like Batrim... or if you’ve had reactions to sulfa drugs... or you have asthma, which is often associated with reactions to sulfites.... You could have a CBS upregulation or a slow BHMT enzyme.

[christinafriberg]

Gabes-I have the CBS snp and am sulfur intolerant. I've made some progress since eliminating high sulfur foods and coffee. Adding Molybdenum and ubiquinol a few months ago at your suggestion helped too. Just checked my b12 that I've been taking for a year and its hydroxy, thought it was methyl. I'm blaming that error on brain fog early on :-) How much hydroxy are you taking? When to add methyl b12? How long did it take for you to notice benefit from the hydroxy b12? Did you supplement with something else or just reduce protein to get results? I'm still having some WD.

There are sulfite strips and sulfate strips, which are preferable?'

Many thanks-Christina