Update/questions from Whirled Peas aka Wen

WhirledPeas · Post by **WhirledPeas** » Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:17 pm

I'm on day 11 of Budesonide 9mg. Due to severe pain digesting and eliminating, I stopped eating soft carrots and rice two weeks ago. I have only been eating crockpot turkey tenderloins made in gluten-free chicken broth with olive oil and salt. Plus some salty rice crackers along with coconut water, water and decaf green tea. For the last week until yesterday and today I had formed BM's without pain. Although I'm having terrible gastritis burning in my belly and throat. I read on drugs.com that Tums and medications to stop acid in your stomach counter act with Budesonide. Does anyone have any information on this? I plan to call my doctor on Monday but he might not get back to me until Monday evening or Tuesday. It seems I trade one problem for another. I keep drinking cold water trying to relieve it.

I tried a fourth of a cup of very steamed yellow squash with the yellow peel take it off and within 45 minutes I had a small broken up IBS type BM and some discomfort. I haven't had this type of BM since I stopped the carrots and rice. Somehow just eating turkey and some crackers keeps my BM's formed him somewhat normal.

I hope so and can get back to me soon! I was diagnosed with gastritis in 2013 but only had it once in awhile when I was well. Normally eating bread or a carbohydrate would soak up the acid. The rice crackers are too salty to help with acid. Does anyone have a gluten-free puffed (or crunchy) rice cracker to recommend that is salt free and no or low fiber?

Wen

Vanessa · Post by **Vanessa** » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:46 am

Hay Wen,

I think your question got lost in the shuffle, so I'm putting it back up top

. I don't have a good rice cracker option bot I had burning stomach at night and burning behind my breast plate while eating for 2 years until I got on the right magnesium and significantly upped my dose. I'm wondering if the budenoside has been using more of your mag and Vit D stores, causing some new symptoms. My problem was too little stomach acid causing the burning....Betaine Hcl gave me a little relief but was not at the heart of my problem.

WhirledPeas · Post by **WhirledPeas** » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:26 am

Hey there

The gastritis started before I took the medication. It started three weeks after my severe flare. About 7 bad episodes. I was diagnosed with "mild" gastritis ( did not feel mile though!!!!) in 2013 at the same time as MC. When I was healthy which was before May 1 I only got gastritis once in a while when I ate something that triggered it and or perhaps stress. It would go away in a day or two and not come back for a while. tomorrow My vitamin D levels were at 50 in March when I was healthy. I'm getting gastritis because the only thing that's going in my stomach is turkey and salty rice crackers food wise so my stomach is empty of things that normally absorb the acid. Plus the immense stress of dealing with the severe flare.

How long does it take Zantac 150 mg to kick in for gastritis/reflux? On it for two days. I waited too long to eat lunch yesterday which I think made it worse.

Thanks for your feedback.

Wen

skp · Post by **skp** » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:22 pm

I saw my internist yesterday for my physical. I knew he would be more understanding than my GI doc! We had a good talk about MC and I gave him Wayne's book. That was yesterday. Lo and behold, today I had a message to me from him, on the practice's website. Here is what he said:

Your book mentions the possible importance of histamine reactivity on microscopic colitis. This would likely also be true with urticaria.

He (the author) recommends a supplement of DAO. Diamine oxidase. which breaks down histamine in foods. I think this might be worth trying. I see that the brand that he had recommended no longer contains DAO. this is the product that now contains DAO. http://umbrelluxdao.com/umbrellux-dao/

David A. Clements MD
Carolina Internal Medicine Associates

Wow! He must have taken the book home and gotten pretty far into it. I'll check out the DAO he mentions. Tex, any input? (The urticaria is mention of my chronic hives.) I know nothing or very little about DAO even though I've seen it on this forum from time to time.

My RBC magnesium was 5.2 so it is lower than even he recommends. He said it needs to be at least 6. Time to up it.

He wants me to take Vitamin K in the form of MK7 since my daily vitamin doesn't have any K. The problem is, that form of K is from soy based sources, which I can't eat. The best supplements, that I found, are soy.

How nice to have a doc that is willing to bend his mind. He was unaware of the food component even though he has treated some patients with MC but he wasn't surprised and asked if my new diet had helped my urticaria, which is has. When diagnosed with the chronic hives, I was told diet had nothing to do with it.

Susan

Erica P-G · Post by **Erica P-G** » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:33 pm

Wen.....I think you are confusing how the stomach actually works.....we Need Acid in the stomach for it to work properly...it is when we Don't Have Enough Acid is when we feel what you are feeling in the stomach

I know it seems to make sense to 'soak up acid' per say but that isn't what is going on, and I've been duped into believing that same scenario myself.

Cold water only hurts the acid as the body needs to warm it up before it will process it so that slows down activity in the stomach.

A good remedy is a Zinc supplement or a even a product called Gastrazyme (I take it when I feel I'm getting what used to be called acidic stomach to help me increase my acid in my stomach).

Every thing you learned regarding GERD or Acid Indigestion is mostly incomplete information on our Drs part...I'm sorry, our Drs are very smart but the science behind certain things they just haven't gotten themselves caught up to speed well enough to properly advise us yet.

I'm sorry you have gastritis, it doesn't sound very fun at all. Vanessa is on target with proper Magnesium and the right dosage which I don't feel you are at yet.

Keep eating what has helped you, plus get really good supplementation of Magnesium as your VitD levels are getting better so it ought to help you absorb it properly. All this tweaking takes times, and sometimes not soon enough before frustration sets in...but you can do this

Post by **tex** » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:19 pm

Susan,

Your doctor is correct, the MC and urticaria can both be made worse by a DAO deficiency (which can be caused by MC).

Tex

WhirledPeas · Post by **WhirledPeas** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:42 pm

Erica P-G wrote:Wen.....I think you are confusing how the stomach actually works.....we Need Acid in the stomach for it to work properly...it is when we Don't Have Enough Acid is when we feel what you are feeling in the stomach

I know it seems to make sense to 'soak up acid' per say but that isn't what is going on, and I've been duped into believing that same scenario myself.

Cold water only hurts the acid as the body needs to warm it up before it will process it so that slows down activity in the stomach.

A good remedy is a Zinc supplement or a even a product called Gastrazyme (I take it when I feel I'm getting what used to be called acidic stomach to help me increase my acid in my stomach).

Every thing you learned regarding GERD or Acid Indigestion is mostly incomplete information on our Drs part...I'm sorry, our Drs are very smart but the science behind certain things they just haven't gotten themselves caught up to speed well enough to properly advise us yet.

I'm sorry you have gastritis, it doesn't sound very fun at all. Vanessa is on target with proper Magnesium and the right dosage which I don't feel you are at yet.

Keep eating what has helped you, plus get really good supplementation of Magnesium as your VitD levels are getting better so it ought to help you absorb it properly. All this tweaking takes times, and sometimes not soon enough before frustration sets in...but you can do this

Hi Erica,

Thank you for your reply and kindness. A kind word can really help on a difficult day. Is there any kind of interaction with Budesonide 9mg? Not sure the doctor or the pharmacist would be familiar with this product. The Amazon link below doesn't tell you what the ingredients are.

Have other people with very bad burning throat/acid reflux plus burning belly/gastritis on this forum taken this supplement with success as well? It feels like there's a small lump in my throat from the acid. I pulled out my wedge pillow that I used in 2002 when I had terrible acid reflux. I took protonix for six years 2001-2006. I was afraid to get off of it and finally did. Before this first severe MC flare of mine, I was not having issues with burning throat or acid reflux at all (for years) except for the night (April 30) that I ate at that rich dairy food/dessert at that charity event that caused this MC flare. ( I rarely eat at restaurants except 3 that are "safe/simple options").

I've noticed over the last five days of suffering from both of these conditions that when I wake up in the morning I don't have pain in my stomach or throat. It makes me not want to get out of bed and to savor it for an hour). The burning starts after I have eaten and usually my second meal of the day but sometimes my first meal of the day. Which is turkey with bland GF Progresso chicken broth, extra-virgin olive oil and salt which I put in the crockpot with six medium to large kosher turkey tenderloins from Costco and nabisco good thins simply salted rice crackers . (I realize they run out of the Kosher turkey tenders fast because they only sell them in neighborhoods where there are a significant number of Jewish people so I need to stock up when they have them.

)

Link for product you suggested:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/cr/B000UQT ... geNumber=3

My doctors office wants me to come in on Friday afternoon to see my G.I. Doctor who sois back in town sooner than what I was told. I know what he's going to want to do and I do not want to take a PPI.

Does anyone have any positive or negative experiences with taking Carafate (liquid cup of coding medication for this off I guess and stomach)? The on-call doctor mentioned this. I read the side effects and of course it says constipation, diarrhea or stomach pains among other things. It seems like medications for MC related problems help one thing and hurt another! This liquid medication is also called something else that starts with Sucra something or other. Are there any other things that have helped with these problems that others have tried?

I have a friend pushing me to try ginger tea and ginger candy but I try to explain that I'm supposed to be bland in this recovery stage. I was always told that ginger and peppermint wasn't good for reflux or gastritis.

It's difficult to figure out what to do. I was feeling fairly OK today because I didn't eat much after the diarrhea but then ate the other half of my breakfast turkey and within five minutes of finishing the burning started.

I will switch to room temperature water per your advice.

I got a little long-winded there but it helps to share...

Wen

brandy · Post by **brandy** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:28 pm

Hi Wen,

I just wanted to offer support. I don't think PPIs are recommended for us. They are very tough to get off of and long term use (years) is linked to dementia/alzheimers.

It sounds like your previous episodes of gastritis came and went as you dealt with stress and eating something once in awhile. When I am in a serious flare I set my cell phone timer every 2 hours and meditate 5 minutes every 2 hours to work on stress. I do this day after day.

Also, during my reflare last year I had to stop the negative self talk going through my head. I was angry at myself for causing the reflare. The anger was getting me nowhere. You've been in remission. You know what it takes. Give yourself a lot of positive self talk.

It looks like stomach pain can be a side effect of budesonide. https://www.drugs.com/sfx/budesonide-side-effects.html

I've never had gastritis so I can't comment other than I believe we've had discussions that keeping up vitamin D levels is helpful for gastritis.

On a positive note it sounds like you have a good handle on the diet.

It is stressful and it sucks being in a flare. I'm finally back in remission after 9 months. It was a day by day, week by week slog to get back into remission. For me there was no magic supplement to get me into remission....just a long, long slog of doing what I knew from before.

I ate a lot of protein and broth early on.

Also consider try anything that might help you with stress....meditation, easy yoga, netflix--when calls the heart, laughter etc.

Gabes-Apg · Post by **Gabes-Apg** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:00 pm

some here have used pure ginger - not tea, not candy, - has to be grated fresh ginger - and this has helped with nausea etc

agree with the other suggestions about that high acid may not be your issue. until the levels of Vit D3 and magnesium can increase to provide benefit, Brandy's suggestion of meditation, easy yoga, adult colouring in, listening to relaxation audio/podcasts is a good option. Do this for the 20 minutes before the meal to relax the body, and after the meal, to keep you relaxed and distracted if there are symptoms

hope this helps

WhirledPeas · Post by **WhirledPeas** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:27 pm

Thank you both for your replies. I need to stop reading this for him because I'm really tired and need to eat some more turkey and watch a good movie take a bath and go to bed.

I've been trying to research more on Carafate i'm here but it's a lot of reading to get to the posts where it mentions it. The G.I. office left samples for me and since I will be seeing my doctor on Friday I'm sure he's going to mention it. Has it helped more or caused more problems for others during a severe flare? The coding on the stomach and throat sounds like such a relief but when you read the side effects it says constipation diarrhea stomach pain etc.

I'm trying to decide if I'm going to take the 150 mg of Zantac tonight since the 300 mg cause diarrhea. On the box it says you must take it for 14 days. To some people eventually respond to it after that amount of time what does it mean it's not effective if it hasn't worked in the last 3 1/2 days. The pharmacist and the doctor seemed to think that it should work within a day or so. Perhaps Pepcid AC is an option.

Wen

PS I've been doing half an hour video meditations three times a day and watching gobs of movies that are funny or interesting plus a hot bath every night with Epsom salts. I've been using the magnesium oil spray at least once or twice a day but sometimes it gives me a rash and tingling. At some point I was doing 12 sprays and then I decreased it to eight but when the rash shows up I take a break from it.

Gabes-Apg · Post by **Gabes-Apg** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:38 pm

if you react the topical mag, then do an extra Epsom salt foot soak in the morning.

you can also reduce the intensity of the mag oil by diluting it with mineralised water - or I have mixed it with coconut oil (easy to do during summer when the oil is liquidified)

jlbattin · Post by **jlbattin** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:53 pm

I had acid reflux and heart burn when I was first diagnosed. Once I got my diet under control and started taking magnesium and vitamin D3, it went away. I was taking Budesonide. I had no issues with it. One thing that helped me was adding a little apple cider vinegar to some microwaved warm water.

Erica P-G · Post by **Erica P-G** » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:54 pm

Hi Wen....

It sounds like classic 'Not enough Acid' in the stomach when you say that you get burning feelings after eating....the food is fermenting and sitting around in the stomach, and not turning to chime like it is supposed to in order to digest properly in the intestine.

Try a 50mg Zinc daily for a few days, if that doesn't offer enough help to the stomach to produce HCL then indeed get the Gastrazyme by Biotics Research...and take according to the directions on the bottle. You need extra support right now getting your food to break down properly.

If getting your VitD and Magnesium levels bumped up have not helped then getting extra supplementation is needed.
Cheers
Erica

WhirledPeas · Post by **WhirledPeas** » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:02 pm

In the past whenever I've tried to take zinc for colds or sinus infections it bothered my stomach. So I avoided it. Have you taken that specific brand for the one I shared a link for? A friend of the family who used to be my father's primary who has digestive issues but not what we have said she has tried a number of products for acid similar to that and it caused her diarrhea. Hmm did you take it during a severe flare when your diet was extremely limited? Someone mentioned apple cider vinegar in warm water but on other threads it was a buys not to use apple cider vinegar in your bone broth if you were in a bad flare.

Erica P-G · Post by **Erica P-G** » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:24 pm

Hi Wen...

Yes I take the Biotics Research product link you shared. I don't have to take it nearly as often as I did this early Spring though as my stomach is doing lots better and I feel it is because I have reached a good VitD and Magnesium level within myself finally.

I don't get D from it either....nerves and anxiety about things will ramp up the cause and effects of your body. I don't feel the Zinc will contribute to D. Take it in confidence, but don't expect it to be a miracle and fix things the first day you take it....as with all homeopathic things it takes a little time for the body to respond so keep doing it. I feel you can also take it in unison with the Gastrazyme too....

Continue to eat and take the Zinc and Gastrazyme and don't worry about the function of if it is working until you give it a chance then after a couple weeks look back on things and re-evaluate them again. You are still in the healing aspect of things, you will still most likely have diarrhea, what you are trying to do right now is correct how the stomach feels first, ok.