I saw my internist yesterday for my physical. I knew he would be more understanding than my GI doc! We had a good talk about MC and I gave him Wayne's book. That was yesterday. Lo and behold, today I had a message to me from him, on the practice's website. Here is what he said:
Your book mentions the possible importance of histamine reactivity on microscopic colitis. This would likely also be true with urticaria.
He (the author) recommends a supplement of DAO. Diamine oxidase. which breaks down histamine in foods. I think this might be worth trying. I see that the brand that he had recommended no longer contains DAO. this is the product that now contains DAO. http://umbrelluxdao.com/umbrellux-dao/
David A. Clements MD
Carolina Internal Medicine Associates
Wow! He must have taken the book home and gotten pretty far into it. I'll check out the DAO he mentions. Tex, any input? (The urticaria is mention of my chronic hives.) I know nothing or very little about DAO even though I've seen it on this forum from time to time.
My RBC magnesium was 5.2 so it is lower than even he recommends. He said it needs to be at least 6. Time to up it.
He wants me to take Vitamin K in the form of MK7 since my daily vitamin doesn't have any K. The problem is, that form of K is from soy based sources, which I can't eat. The best supplements, that I found, are soy.
How nice to have a doc that is willing to bend his mind. He was unaware of the food component even though he has treated some patients with MC but he wasn't surprised and asked if my new diet had helped my urticaria, which is has. When diagnosed with the chronic hives, I was told diet had nothing to do with it.
Susan
My Great Internist!
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
What can I say? He's right about the urticaria (see your other post). He's also right about the magnesium test result. He appears to be a winner.
Tex
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Tex,
What about the DAO my internist recommends? Here's his quote:
"e (the author) recommends a supplement of DAO. Diamine oxidase. which breaks down histamine in foods. I think this might be worth trying. I see that the brand that he had recommended no longer contains DAO. this is the product that now contains DAO. "http://umbrelluxdao.com/umbrellux-dao/
Also, what about Vitamin K. He recommends the MK7 version but I researched and it is all soy based. I am getting no K in my multi.
Thanks,
Susan
What about the DAO my internist recommends? Here's his quote:
"e (the author) recommends a supplement of DAO. Diamine oxidase. which breaks down histamine in foods. I think this might be worth trying. I see that the brand that he had recommended no longer contains DAO. this is the product that now contains DAO. "http://umbrelluxdao.com/umbrellux-dao/
Also, what about Vitamin K. He recommends the MK7 version but I researched and it is all soy based. I am getting no K in my multi.
Thanks,
Susan
Well. here's what their website says:
"DAO Porcine Kidney Protein Extract
[providing approximately 7% (294 mcg) Diamine Oxidase Enzyme and 10,000 HDU]"
That might be a problem if you were sensitive to pork. It also contains citric acid (I assume as a preservative), which might be a problem if you are sensitive to citric acid. Otherwise, it may be the only game in town, as far as I know. Now one wants to process stuff like this these days because it's not a "hot" item. I have no idea how well it works, or if it works.
I'm not much of an authority on vitamin K, since I can't take it because I have to take a blood thinner (as if I'm an authority on anything.) Maybe someone here has found a workaround for the soy problem. I notice that Puritan's Pride claims that their vitamin K is free of everything, but it's also on back order. Nor do I know what form it's in. It may not be in MK7 form.
Tex
"DAO Porcine Kidney Protein Extract
[providing approximately 7% (294 mcg) Diamine Oxidase Enzyme and 10,000 HDU]"
That might be a problem if you were sensitive to pork. It also contains citric acid (I assume as a preservative), which might be a problem if you are sensitive to citric acid. Otherwise, it may be the only game in town, as far as I know. Now one wants to process stuff like this these days because it's not a "hot" item. I have no idea how well it works, or if it works.
I'm not much of an authority on vitamin K, since I can't take it because I have to take a blood thinner (as if I'm an authority on anything.) Maybe someone here has found a workaround for the soy problem. I notice that Puritan's Pride claims that their vitamin K is free of everything, but it's also on back order. Nor do I know what form it's in. It may not be in MK7 form.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Susan,
There are a few MK7s on the market that are made from chickpeas. They say soy free on label. I was able to tolerate one of them.
I've since switched to K2 MK4 as their seem to be more studies (most of them out of Japan) about the MK4 version helpful for bones which I know is not your question.
I'm not sure how the MK4 version ties out to DAO if it even does.
There are a few MK7s on the market that are made from chickpeas. They say soy free on label. I was able to tolerate one of them.
I've since switched to K2 MK4 as their seem to be more studies (most of them out of Japan) about the MK4 version helpful for bones which I know is not your question.
I'm not sure how the MK4 version ties out to DAO if it even does.
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Gabes-Apg
- Emperor Penguin
- Posts: 8332
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:12 pm
- Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia
For me, fixing Magnesium deficiency and B6 deficiency (via taking P5P which is active form) resolved my lifelong Histamine /Allergy issues (that at times were chronic)
article that summaries this about B6
http://alisonvickery.com.au/why-your-vi ... important/
This article explains importance of magnesium for histamine/DAO
http://synergyhw.blogspot.com.au/2013/0 ... amine.html
article that summaries this about B6
http://alisonvickery.com.au/why-your-vi ... important/
Relieves PMS, dermatitis, mosquito bites, irritability, depression, and short-term memory issues.Increases diamine oxidase plasma levels.
Degrading glutamates and MSG.
Metabolises proteins.
Reduces oxalate levels
Inhibits the degranulation of mast-cells.
Moderates cortisol levels.
Regulates blood sugar levels and glucose tolerance.
Converts ALA to DHA.
Acts as a potent anti-oxidant.
Synthesises neurotransmitters; serotonin, dopamine, and GABA, and norepinephrine.
This article explains importance of magnesium for histamine/DAO
one of the important functions of magnesium is to help create the histamine metabolizing enzyme Diamine Oxidase (DAO). In magnesium deficient rats, DAO activity is decreased to 50% after 8 days of magnesium deficiency and it returns to baseline once magnesium is reintroduced back in to the diet(1).
http://synergyhw.blogspot.com.au/2013/0 ... amine.html
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
Susan,
Yes, magnesium deficiency reduces the ability of DAO to control histamine levels. Gabes' post reminds me that I wrote an article about this effect of magnesium deficiency. I had forgotten about writing it.
You might find this article (at the following link) to be helpful for understanding histamine buildup. It mentions the role of vitamin B-6, also.
http://www.waynepersky.com/2016/10/26/h ... e-problem/
Tex
Yes, magnesium deficiency reduces the ability of DAO to control histamine levels. Gabes' post reminds me that I wrote an article about this effect of magnesium deficiency. I had forgotten about writing it.
You might find this article (at the following link) to be helpful for understanding histamine buildup. It mentions the role of vitamin B-6, also.
http://www.waynepersky.com/2016/10/26/h ... e-problem/
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Doctor's Best Vitamin K is what I take............no soy..........
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002N ... =UTF8&th=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002N ... =UTF8&th=1
Jari
Diagnosed with Collagenous Colitis, June 29th, 2015
Gluten free, Dairy free, and Soy free since July 3rd, 2015
Diagnosed with Collagenous Colitis, June 29th, 2015
Gluten free, Dairy free, and Soy free since July 3rd, 2015
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Gabes-Apg
- Emperor Penguin
- Posts: 8332
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:12 pm
- Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia
thorne methyl guard does have P5P,
what people like myself and Erica found was that we needed higher doses of P5P (compared to the B9, B12 in the methylguard) to resolve the B6 deficiency to resolve histamine issues.
the Thorne P5P product along with methyl guard would work well..
what people like myself and Erica found was that we needed higher doses of P5P (compared to the B9, B12 in the methylguard) to resolve the B6 deficiency to resolve histamine issues.
the Thorne P5P product along with methyl guard would work well..
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
Gabes,
I am leery of Vitamin B6. When I was in my early twenties and working at the Menninger Foundation in Topeka, KS, health food stores had just come to the midwest. I was working with a lot of other young peers and brewers yeast became a hot item. I was taking lots everyday, mixed in juice. No doubt, too much! Brewers yeast has B6. After a few months, I began to have vertigo. Very long story short, I ended up in the hospital with vertigo and my eyes locked to one side. A nice, anonymous man flew me (and two family members) to the Mayo Clinic in MN. After some excruciatingly painful tests, it was determined that I had a brain tumor. There were no Cat scans not MRIs at the time. I underwent a long surgery. No brain tumor. I was told I probably had MS but that time would tell. With my head shaved, I wore an eye patch for 9 months and had to regain my balance. I had two little girls at home, three and five. My husband, an alcoholic whom I later divorced, was of little help. Needless to say, a rough time.
MS never happened. My eyes straightened themselves out until I was fifty and then, due to age, the muscles relaxed and I had some double vision related to the nerve damage from my twenties. (Nerve damage had been confirmed.) Surgery and glasses with prisms now work well for me.
My multi, 3 per day for a daily dose, has 7.5 mg of B6, as pyridoxine HCL and that makes me nervous as the recommended dose of this kind of Vit 6 for women over 50 is 1.3 mg per the Mayo Clinic. I am debating whether to take all 3 tablets per day.
While never confirmed, I know in my gut that the brewers yeast was key. I have learned through the years that I am very sensitive to a good number of drugs, etc.
Here is what Dr. Weil says about Vit B toxicity: https://www.drweil.com/vitamins-supplem ... -problems/
Susan
I am leery of Vitamin B6. When I was in my early twenties and working at the Menninger Foundation in Topeka, KS, health food stores had just come to the midwest. I was working with a lot of other young peers and brewers yeast became a hot item. I was taking lots everyday, mixed in juice. No doubt, too much! Brewers yeast has B6. After a few months, I began to have vertigo. Very long story short, I ended up in the hospital with vertigo and my eyes locked to one side. A nice, anonymous man flew me (and two family members) to the Mayo Clinic in MN. After some excruciatingly painful tests, it was determined that I had a brain tumor. There were no Cat scans not MRIs at the time. I underwent a long surgery. No brain tumor. I was told I probably had MS but that time would tell. With my head shaved, I wore an eye patch for 9 months and had to regain my balance. I had two little girls at home, three and five. My husband, an alcoholic whom I later divorced, was of little help. Needless to say, a rough time.
MS never happened. My eyes straightened themselves out until I was fifty and then, due to age, the muscles relaxed and I had some double vision related to the nerve damage from my twenties. (Nerve damage had been confirmed.) Surgery and glasses with prisms now work well for me.
My multi, 3 per day for a daily dose, has 7.5 mg of B6, as pyridoxine HCL and that makes me nervous as the recommended dose of this kind of Vit 6 for women over 50 is 1.3 mg per the Mayo Clinic. I am debating whether to take all 3 tablets per day.
While never confirmed, I know in my gut that the brewers yeast was key. I have learned through the years that I am very sensitive to a good number of drugs, etc.
Here is what Dr. Weil says about Vit B toxicity: https://www.drweil.com/vitamins-supplem ... -problems/
Susan
Susan,
As someone who has had nerve damage issues for the last 10 or 15 years, I agree with you about the concerns with B-6. Over the years, I've done all sorts of experiments with taking it and avoiding it, and I've never been able to pin it down as a cause of my nerve damage.
Still. I note that probably the oldest prescription source of the active form of B-6, Metanx, contains only 35 mg of the stuff. The label dose of Metanx is one or two pills. All of these other products have only come on the market and become somewhat popular relatively recently, within the last few years. I'm like you, I can't prove that the stuff has caused some of my problems, but I'm leery of taking relatively high doses of it because I don't need any more nerve damage.
I view it with the same respect I give magnesium — a reasonable dose is essential for good health, and it can work miracles if one needs to correct a deficiency. But too much can cause a heart attack (if your kidneys are unable to take the excess magnesium out of your blood). Too much B-6 isn't likely to cause a heart attack, but it can cause the equivalent of a heart attack in terms of damage to your CNS.
Tex
As someone who has had nerve damage issues for the last 10 or 15 years, I agree with you about the concerns with B-6. Over the years, I've done all sorts of experiments with taking it and avoiding it, and I've never been able to pin it down as a cause of my nerve damage.
Still. I note that probably the oldest prescription source of the active form of B-6, Metanx, contains only 35 mg of the stuff. The label dose of Metanx is one or two pills. All of these other products have only come on the market and become somewhat popular relatively recently, within the last few years. I'm like you, I can't prove that the stuff has caused some of my problems, but I'm leery of taking relatively high doses of it because I don't need any more nerve damage.
I view it with the same respect I give magnesium — a reasonable dose is essential for good health, and it can work miracles if one needs to correct a deficiency. But too much can cause a heart attack (if your kidneys are unable to take the excess magnesium out of your blood). Too much B-6 isn't likely to cause a heart attack, but it can cause the equivalent of a heart attack in terms of damage to your CNS.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.