Hey Tex! Settle a debate!

wmonique2 · Post by **wmonique2** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:11 pm

Hey Tex,

I am having a discussion with the other MC board on FB. I said that Microscopic Colitis in its various forms is NOT an autoimmune disease and is not considered an IBD. They insist that it is.

I know that the medical profession has only Crohn's and Ulcerative Colitis as IBDs. Right or wrong (wrong in my opinion) but those two are IBDs because both are autoimmune condition whereas MC is NOT according to them. Nothing else.

As far as I know this categorization has not changed lately.

The FB support group insists that the Microscopic Foundation website says that it is autoimmune and an IBD. I read it and I don't see any definitive statement from you.

So is it or is it not? Thank you!

Love to you my friend.

Monique

Vanessa · Post by **Vanessa** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:29 pm

Hey Monique,

Tex will chime in but Microscopic Colitis most certainly IS an auto-immune disorder AND an IBD both. FB is correct.

Post by **tex** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:29 pm

Hi Monique,

I'm sorry, but Vanessa is right. If you'll look under the description of the disease, it says,"Microscopic colitis (MC) is a type of inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) — the general name for diseases that cause irritation and inflammation in the intestines."

To be honest, I'm not sure if the site actually defines it as an autoimmune disease. Here's why: I claim there's no such thing as an actual example of an autoimmune disease, because every disease that the medical community claims to be autoimmune, is actually caused by an exogenous antigen, and that disqualifies it from being an autoimmune disease, by definition. I'm going to clarify that position in my next book. But aside from that, according to the definition that the medical community has officially endorsed, MC is as much an autoimmune disease as Crohn's and UC.

Incidentally, celiac disease is an IBD, and it's also considered to be an autoimmune disease. But everyone knows that celiac disease is caused by gluten, an exogenous antigen, so the medical community is clearly caught red-handed in a shameful mistake on that one.

I hope that doesn't disqualify me from being "lovable".

Love,

Tex

wmonique2 · Post by **wmonique2** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:41 pm

You are still very lovable, Tex !!!

I am just trying to figure out this ordeal.... I was recently on a Crohn's and UC board and I called MC an IBD. Wouldn't you know it -- I got my head nearly bit off by the admins of that board saying that only Crohn's and UC were IBDs and that MC didn't qualify as such.

According to them only those two are. I was wondering who was right. You say that the medical community supports the fact that MC is. I didn't know that. I thought they didn't and if I remember correctly a few years back you were trying to change the categorization with the help of Zizzle.

Well, I guess you answered my question.

Thanks!

Love,

Post by **tex** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:20 pm

Almost ten years ago one of our members (JLH) got into an argument with one of the reps (I don't know her official rank within the organization) at the Crohn's and Colitis Foundation, because they didn't even know that MC was an IBD.

Here's what the CCFA said originally:

Crohns and Colitis (CCFA) response

Down a ways into this thread is where she posted about them admitting they were wrong:

Awareness ribbons and bracelets

Apparently the atmosphere over there among those (ignorant) people still hasn't changed much. Too bad.

I think Zizzle was working on trying to get the insurance code changed so that MC would be easier to specify.

Hope you've managed to stay dry and your neighborhood didn't get much damage from the storm when it moved through.

Love,

Tex

Polly · Post by **Polly** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:21 pm

Hi Monique!

Here is a way to look at it:

If you consider that the name of our disease is microscopic colitis, it means "colon inflammation" (itis=inflammation) which can only be seen under a microscopic. Thus, inflammation is part and parcel of the definition, which puts it in the category of inflammatory bowel disease (IBD).

Love,

Polly

JFR · Post by **JFR** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:45 am

There's a lot of politics involved in the naming of diseases. How diseases are named and classified brings about certain perks in terms of insurance payments and disability claims and medical/social legitimacy. Often people diagnosed with particular diseases like to hang onto a kind of exclusivity, bragging right, rights to complain, rights for sympathy and of course rights for services. Diagnoses are not based entirely on science, as we would like to believe. They are ways of classifying symptoms and signs and attempting to bring some kind of order in our understanding of the seemingly infinite processes of the body and how they go awry. Diseases are ideas, often best guesses, rather than things carved in stone, The colitis crohns contingent just want to keep the MC contingent out of their exclusive IBD/autoimmune club. It's not science; it's politics. The more people you let into the club the less special you become.

Jean

Post by **tex** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:03 am

Exactly!

Tex

wmonique2 · Post by **wmonique2** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:06 pm

Hi Tex, Polly, Jean

All of you are right! Jean nailed it about the exclusivity as if it is a club that someone really wants to join. I'd rather not have anything to do with any of them.

Apparently many still want to hang on to their proprietary rights to Crohn's, UC, IBD --- boy are they territorial!

For all I care they can go and piss around their turf.

Tex --- dodged the storm bullet. Was scary.... thanks.

Love,

Monique

Post by **tex** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:30 pm

Monique wrote:For all I care they can go and piss around their turf.

That might sound a little crude, but it's actually very eloquent. At least animals have sense enough to do that so that other animals realize when they're invading another's turf. Humans think they're too sophisticated for that, so we have no way of knowing when we stumble onto "sacred" turf.

Glad you weathered the storm OK.

Love,

Tex

Deb · Post by **Deb** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:41 pm

That might sound a little crude, but it's actually very eloquent. At least animals have sense enough to do that so that other animals realize when they're invading another's turf.

LOVE this forum!

pieroaj · Post by **pieroaj** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:12 am

Just one more way MC is inflammatory - since my diagnosis in March 2017, my C-reactive protein was measured. It is high. Never in my life has it been high. As my doctor said, it is a general marker for inflammation, not just cardiac issues (which I do not have). Really for my purposes the CRP test did not mean much. I know I am inflamed. I am reminded of that every morning in the bathroom. However, from an objective point.....not just the biopsies, but other inflammatory markers show MC's inflammation.

wmonique2 · Post by **wmonique2** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:38 am

Tex ----

brandy · Post by **brandy** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:41 am

Really good thread!

Monique--great question!

Jean--you are dead on right! There is huge money and big egos in research of diseases.

I'm wondering if there is some subtle ageism involved in the classification of the IBDs.

Crohns and UC generally strike folks in their teens or early 20's. MC is considered a disease of "little old ladies that are getting ready to kick the bucket." Of course we know that is not the truth as we have some wonderful young men that have just joined our club recently. I think there is more prestige to research diseases that strike young people in the prime of life compared to researching a disease of "little old ladies in nursing homes who have just a little D."

Geriatric medicine has never had the prestige of say pediatric surgery.

sunny · Post by **sunny** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:37 pm

What a great, informative thread! Thanx to all!
Sunny