Topical Mag Failing Me? ReMag Question.

skp · Post by **skp** » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:22 am

A year ago I had my serum RBC mag tested during my annual physical. I was 5.2 mg/DL. My internist and I agreed that it should be at least 6.

This year my level was down at 4.7. I checked my notes and date of my last lab work, which was 6/19/17. At that time I was taking 200 mg of Doctor's Best mag and using magnesium lotion. I don't believe I started ReMag until 6/20/17 if my notes are accurate. I didn't take ReMag for too long and I can't remember why.

Wanting to increase my mag, I began taking 300 mg of Doctor's Best and using 400-500 mg of topical. I then upped my DB to 400 mg but after many months, found that 400 caused me to have soft stools so I went back to 300 mg which seemed to help.

Bottom line (ha!), I have taken 300 mg of DB for several months now and 300-400 of Mo Maggie lotion that has 250 mg per tsp. Plus, another 60 mg from my multi vitamin and yet my mag level was down!

Yesterday I started ReMag again, 150 mg orally along with 400 mg of Doctor's Best and my stool was extremely soft today, almost D.

I'm kind of confused. Does this mean that topical mag isn't being absorbed? I have read several articles via the NIH, etc, that says the jury is still out. ReMag isn't supposed to have a laxative effect, but does it for some?

Suggestions? I really want to up my mag level.

Thanks,
Susan

skp · Post by **skp** » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:40 am

I need to correct what I wrote above about taking ReMag. I looked very carefully back over my log and I was, indeed, taking oral ReMag for a few months prior to my physical and lab draw last year when my mag level was higher than this year. For some reason, I had stopped it a week or so prior and was just taking DB and topical.

I am taking ReMag again (300 mg) along with DB (300 mg). While I will continue to apply the mag lotion, I am less convinced that it makes an impact on my RBC mag level.

Susan

Post by **tex** » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:48 am

Hi Susan.

Something appears to be really compromising your ability to utilize magnesium. Are you by any chance taking budesonide, or have you ever taken PPIs, or do you drink a lot of coffee? — budesonide, coffee, and a lot or other things deplete magnesium, but PPIs really wipe it out. For most people, it's impossible to restore magnesium reserves if they are taking a PPI.

Is your vitamin D level good? Vitamin D and magnesium are co-dependent.

Tex

skp · Post by **skp** » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:12 am

Tex,
I have been off of budesonide for at least a year. I took a PPI late last year for 2 weeks and I do drink 2-3 cups of coffee a day. My vitamin D level, taken last week, was normal at 72.6 ug/mL. I take almost 8000 IU per day.

Susan

Post by **tex** » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:59 am

Hmmmmmm. Well, there doesn't appear to be anything wrong with that. I'm assuming you mean ng/mL, because ug/mL would be only 1-1 thousandth of a ng/mL. You're probably already spacing out the magnesium during the day, but in case you're taking it in a concentrated period of time (in the same time frame that you're drinking coffee), try taking most of it an hour or so apart from any coffee to help with the absorption.

For example, I take my thyroid medication, eat breakfast about 20 or 30 minutes later, check my BP, take all my pills (but only 100 mg of magnesium), drink a couple of cups of coffee to get my heart started for the day, and then take the rest of my magnesium after my noon meal and after my afternoon meal or snack. I only take 300 mg total of magnesium (in the form of magnesium glycinate) — (I have a blood draw scheduled for Monday to check my RGB magnesium level and about a dozen other things). I disregard the 80 mg of magnesium oxide in my multivitamin because I don't consider that to be contributing anything to my magnesium level.

Tex

Erica P-G · Post by **Erica P-G** » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:21 pm

Hi Susan,

Do you drink enough liquids without caffeine in them during the day? The kidneys might just need a breather....

Do you move around so as to help make the lymph nodes remove debris from the body....

Stress will keep magnesium from building no matter how much VitD is taken along with it.

Are you getting enough quality sleep?

Don't want you to let any of this get to you....I personally feel external Magnesium has helped me especially when I need extra in times of a head ache ( I will apply the Remag lotion to my face, temples and neck a few times a day) it has backed them off so I feel it works fine.

skp · Post by **skp** » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:52 am

Tex, if you take only 300 mg of mag, what was your last lab level? Above 6? Am I too hung up on my level?

I do space out all of my vitamins and supplements but will make sure the mag is not taken until a few hours after my morning cup or two. Sometimes I have iced coffee in the afternoon, so I'll avoid that time, too. Good idea. Question: If ReMag doesn't go through the digestive system, would it matter when it is taken?

Erica, I drink lots of water throughout the day, get plenty of sleep, am active and fortunately, have low stress in my life now that I have retired. Like all of us with MC, my diet is a constant balancing act. The topical mag does help if I have an ache or pain but apparently, it isn't absorbed deeply enough to bring up my mag lab level.

For two days now I have taken oral ReMag in addition to 300 mg of Doctor's Best. I hope I tolerate it. My wee memory of past experience tells me that it interfered with my sleep, which is why I discontinued it. But, that memory is only a whisper, so I am not sure about that. I tried to search ReMag for other member's experiences with it but I am not the best at searches. Gabes used to drink it in water.

Thanks for the help,
Susan

Post by **tex** » Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:16 am

Susan wrote:Tex, if you take only 300 mg of mag, what was your last lab level? Above 6? Am I too hung up on my level?

I don't know. My doctors always ordered the serum test and I never pressured them to change. Apparently my GP has finally seen the light on this and he volunteered the RBC test this time (for the blood draw scheduled for Monday). I think you are correct to try to achieve a decent magnesium reserve level. The main reason why I limit my magnesium supplementation to 300 mg is because a few weeks before I had the stroke last year I developed a heart arrhythmia which was apparently caused by too much magnesium in the bloodstream. Magnesium is an electrolyte and it's involved in the regulation of the heart and blood pressure. I was taking 500–600 mg of magnesium glycinate at the time, but my kidney function had been compromised by an allergic reaction to Bactrim a couple of years previously. Apparently my compromised kidneys were unable to sufficiently regulate my blood level of magnesium, so the excess magnesium built up until it caused the arrhythmia. (That's just a guess, of course, but my doctor agreed with my reasoning). My current kidney function is (barely) at the lower end of normal, so I can't afford to tempt fate by overcrowding them. IOW, if you have compromised kidney function and you take more magnesium than your body needs, eventually it can lead to a potentially fatal cardiac event, just as running too low on magnesium can do. We'll hopefully find out next week if I need to adjust my magnesium supplementation rate.

Susan wrote:Question: If ReMag doesn't go through the digestive system, would it matter when it is taken?

This is a more complex issue than meets the eye. Most authorities assume (mistakenly, IMO) that it shouldn't matter because theoretically, skin absorption should be independent of intestinal absorption. The "catch" here is that the skin is very similar to the intestinal lining in the way it functions to regulate the tight junctions, and those tight junctions are regulated by the same immune system. The cellular structure in the skin is very dissimilar to the cellular structure of the mucosa in the intestines (squamous cells as opposed to tall columnar epithelial cells known as enterocytes in the mucosa), but the barrier function is very, very, similar. And we know that the skin often responds to the same stimuli as the mucosa of the intestines. The question remaining to be answered is, "Exactly how closely does the skin emulate the actions of the intestinal lining"? Would a substance that inhibits absorption through the the intestinal barrier impose the same inhibition on the skin? I believe it would (due to the fact that it is regulated by the same immune system).

But remember, this is just my opinion, and it has never been addressed (to my knowledge) by any published medical research.

Tex

skp · Post by **skp** » Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:52 am

Interesting, Tex. I'll be curious to find out what your RBC magnesium level is.

It's mind boggling to read about too much magnesium, too little, too much D3, etc. I always try to read reputable sources. Today I read an article on the problem with too much D. In that, I am going to not take as much as it seems it may contribute to calcium buildup in the arteries, for example. I was taking a goodly amount.

As regards the ReMag, I was referring to oral ingestion not topical and wondering if it mattered when it was taken. Don't bother yourself with trying to answer that. I will drink it with water and wait and see what my RBC level is in three months. In addition, I'll continue with 300mg of Doctor's Best. If I can get my level up to at least 6, I will taper off as I don't want to take too much forever.

Thanks for your time.

Susan

Post by **tex** » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:47 pm

Susan wrote:Today I read an article on the problem with too much D. In that, I am going to not take as much as it seems it may contribute to calcium buildup in the arteries, for example.

I discussed this issue in the second book on pages 138–140.

Mainstream medical institutions post all sorts of dire warnings about taking vitamin D.
The following quote comes from one of the web pages on the Mayo Clinic website, for example.162 Apparently these warnings are offered as advice to physicians.

Vitamin D may cause allergic skin reactions (inflammation, irritation, rash, and thinning), build-up of calcium in the arteries, changes in cholesterol levels, daytime sleepiness, excessive vitamin D levels, hardening of the arteries, headaches, increased calcium excretion or levels, increased risk of falls and fractures, increased risk of heart attack and stroke, increased risk of high blood pressure during pregnancy, increased risk of urinary tract infection, kidney or urinary stones, muscle pain, respiratory tract infection, and stomach problems (constipation, cramps, diarrhea, upset stomach, and vomiting).

Vitamin D may affect blood sugar levels. Caution is advised in people with diabetes or low blood sugar, and in those taking drugs, herbs, or supplements that affect blood sugar. Blood sugar levels may need to be monitored by a qualified healthcare professional, including a pharmacist, and medication adjustments may be necessary.

Vitamin D may affect blood pressure. Caution is advised in people with blood pressure disorders or those taking drugs or herbs and supplements that affect blood pressure.

Use cautiously in people with headaches, heart disease, immune disorders (including lymph cancer and tuberculosis), kidney disease, liver disease, lung disorders, musculoskeletal disorders, skin disorders, stomach disorders, and thyroid disorders.

Use cautiously in pregnant women at risk of high blood pressure associated with pregnancy.

Use cautiously in breastfeeding women.

Avoid in people with known allergy or sensitivity to vitamin D, any similar compounds, or any part of the formula.

Avoid in people with abnormal calcium excretion or levels.
Pregnancy and Breastfeeding

Use cautiously in pregnant women at risk of high blood pressure associated with pregnancy. The recommended adequate intake for pregnant women is the same as for non-pregnant adults. Most prenatal vitamins provide 400 IU of vitamin D daily as cholecalciferol, while high-risk populations may benefit from higher amounts (2,000-4,000 IU daily).

Use cautiously in breastfeeding women. The daily recommended intake for vitamin D during breastfeeding is 400 IU (10 micrograms) daily. Vitamin D2 in doses of 2,000 IU daily or 60,000 IU monthly for three months has been found to be safe and effective. Exclusively breastfed babies may be supplemented with 400-2,000 IU daily.
On the surface, these claims appear to be a major indictment of vitamin D for various health reasons. But if the claims are looked at individually, from an analytic viewpoint, it becomes clear that every one of them is associated with taking vitamin D when magnesium is deficient. We've previously established that unless one is already taking a magnesium supplement, significant doses of supplemental vitamin D should always be accompanied by a magnesium supplement. But of course since the Mayo Clinic and all other mainstream medical institutions turn a blind eye to the entire magnesium deficiency situation, they choose to blame taking vitamin D for problems that are due to magnesium deficiency. And of course in the long run this results in fewer people taking a vitamin D supplement, which makes them more vulnerable to many pathogens that could otherwise be easily managed by their immune system.

Here's citation number 162 from that quote:

162. Vitamin D. (2013, November 01). Retrieved from http://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplem ... b-20060400

Tex

skp · Post by **skp** » Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:14 pm

Good point, Tex. I had been taking almost 8000 IUs daily. My thought is to just take my Vitamin D + K2 supplement which provides me with 2500 IUs of D3. Does that make sense or would you suggest I keep up the 8000 IUs?

Susan

Post by **tex** » Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:13 pm

At your latitude, that should be plenty D3 in the summer months. I'm not a good source of information for K2, because I can't take it due to taking Plavix, but as far as I know, it's a good supplement for most people who are not using a blood thinner. Unless you are having GERD problems, I would just continue with 2500 IUs of D3 and K2. You might benefit from more D3 during the winter months.

Tex

skp · Post by **skp** » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:52 am

Tex,
Thanks for the advice. I just read Dr Caroline Dean's theory on too much Vitamin D and its relation to magnesium. Here is the link.

Susan

https://drcarolyndean.com/2013/03/too-much-vitamin-d/