Hi All,
I have the utmost respect for the opinions on this board, so when a friend of mine had a weird reaction at dinner tonight, naturally our board is where I know I can find the most knowledgeable opinions.
A friend of mine has started having a reaction often while she’s eating. She starts feeling flushed, anxious, her hearing diminishes, her vision darkens, and she gets light headed. She said it’s as if her head is in a tunnel. Tonight it lasted about 8 minutes- it let up then came back then resolved. I asked her if it could be a med side effect but she’s had no changes in meds. She does take magnesium supplements but didn’t know her current level. She avoids caffeine and alcohol because she believes they may set off something like this. She is prone to migraines, has seasonal allergies, and arthritis, and lately her arthritis has been much worse.
She said this reaction seems to be happening more. Tonight she was eating a turkey club sandwich (turkey, bacon, lettuce, tomato on white bread), fruit (strawberries, pineapple and melon) and drinking a jasmine green tea.
We both wondered if this is some kind of histamine or even mast cell reaction, but I’m not familiar with the sensory issues of her hearing decreasing and her vision darkening ( especially her peripheral vision). She didn’t have trouble breathing and was able to talk to us the whole time.
Has anyone experienced anything similar or heard of anything like this?
Thanks in advance,
Carol
Question about a possible histamine reaction
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
Question about a possible histamine reaction
“.... people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.” Maya Angelou
Carol, my husband had issues for most of his life and thought he was having seizures. He and his brother both boxed and thought it could be related to that as his brother had the same issues. When he first went to the Dr. they didn't want to run a battery of tests because they said he could lose his driver's license, etc. FINALLY just a few years ago, Mayo told him his tunnel vision and black and white spectrum was from migraines. He feels it coming on, takes ibuprofen or tylenol and waits out the approximately 20 minutes headache. Perhaps something (food allergy?) is triggering the same in your friend.
Hi Carol,
You're going to think I've gone over the deep end when I give you my opinion.
This case might involve histamines, but the fact that it involves several neurological symptoms (diminished hearing, darkened vision, and most importantly, lightheadedness), suggests a limited form of a somewhat rare condition known as deglutition syncope (or more commonly, swallow syncope). I say "limited form" because apparently she does not actually faint as a result of swallowing. But her symptoms certainly suggest that she has (or is developing) swallow syncope.
I would suggest that she consult with a good neurologist who can either rule it out or confirm it.
As the name implies, the symptoms are caused by low blood pressure as a result of swallowing. There may be other treatments available, but one of the most successful treatments appears to be a pacemaker.
As always, you're very welcome.
Tex
You're going to think I've gone over the deep end when I give you my opinion.
This case might involve histamines, but the fact that it involves several neurological symptoms (diminished hearing, darkened vision, and most importantly, lightheadedness), suggests a limited form of a somewhat rare condition known as deglutition syncope (or more commonly, swallow syncope). I say "limited form" because apparently she does not actually faint as a result of swallowing. But her symptoms certainly suggest that she has (or is developing) swallow syncope.I would suggest that she consult with a good neurologist who can either rule it out or confirm it.
As the name implies, the symptoms are caused by low blood pressure as a result of swallowing. There may be other treatments available, but one of the most successful treatments appears to be a pacemaker.
As always, you're very welcome.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Carol,
Here's the logic behind my opinion:
Those specific neurological symptoms are almost surely due to a drastic blood pressure drop in the brain. That's also why Deb's suggestion is on target — a buildup of blood pressure followed by a sudden drop (of blood pressure) in the brain is the driving force behind migraines.
Deb's suggestion is certainly a possibility, because the symptoms suggest a very similar event. The main reason why I believe the problem is swallow syncope is because of the triggering mechanism. As far as I know, migraines in general are rarely triggered by eating. If eating is the only time that your friend has this problem, that really narrows down the possibilities. The only aspect of eating that is known to trigger a drop in blood pressure is the act of swallowing.
Ordinary histamine reactions (involving the massive release of histamine due to an IgE reaction) should be accompanied by airway restrictions and should not involve those specific neurological symptoms. The fact that she also notes a flush suggests that a histamine release might also be involved. However, I have a hunch that the flush is due to a migraine-type blood pressure increase just before the blood pressure drastically falls, to trigger the main reaction. (I'll bet that the flush disappears before the main neurological symptoms appear). I may be wrong (and neurologists may disagree with me), but I suspect that swallow syncope is a special form of migraine.
Good catch, Deb.
Tex
Here's the logic behind my opinion:
Those specific neurological symptoms are almost surely due to a drastic blood pressure drop in the brain. That's also why Deb's suggestion is on target — a buildup of blood pressure followed by a sudden drop (of blood pressure) in the brain is the driving force behind migraines.
Deb's suggestion is certainly a possibility, because the symptoms suggest a very similar event. The main reason why I believe the problem is swallow syncope is because of the triggering mechanism. As far as I know, migraines in general are rarely triggered by eating. If eating is the only time that your friend has this problem, that really narrows down the possibilities. The only aspect of eating that is known to trigger a drop in blood pressure is the act of swallowing.
Ordinary histamine reactions (involving the massive release of histamine due to an IgE reaction) should be accompanied by airway restrictions and should not involve those specific neurological symptoms. The fact that she also notes a flush suggests that a histamine release might also be involved. However, I have a hunch that the flush is due to a migraine-type blood pressure increase just before the blood pressure drastically falls, to trigger the main reaction. (I'll bet that the flush disappears before the main neurological symptoms appear). I may be wrong (and neurologists may disagree with me), but I suspect that swallow syncope is a special form of migraine.
Good catch, Deb.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Thanks so much Deb and Tex,
When I arrived home I did Google her symptoms and syncope did seem to match, but You’ve given me a much better picture of the mechanism behind that. I did comment to her that I’d like to know what her blood pressure was doing during one of these episodes, because she does get flushed evenly on her neck and face, then the light headedness and other symptoms follow. Her husband said they’ve been trying to sort out the triggers and he felt the triggers were similar to her migraine triggers. All we could conclude is that it seems to be an issue of the regulatory system.
Side note: (The 4 of us (my friend and her husband, my husband and I) are all psychologists by the way. Nothing like 4 psychologists sitting in a sports bar playing arm-chair neurologists, while my friend turns various shades of red and tries to describe how she feels in coherent terms).
The rise then drop in blood pressure makes perfect sense with what she described and what I observed. I don’t know that it only happens when she’s eating but the majority of episodes have I think. I’ll pose the idea of swallow syncope. Maybe whoever treats her for her migraines would have a background with types of syncope as well.
Thanks for clarifying the difference too between a histamine reaction and syncope. This is a major help.
In friendship,
Carol
When I arrived home I did Google her symptoms and syncope did seem to match, but You’ve given me a much better picture of the mechanism behind that. I did comment to her that I’d like to know what her blood pressure was doing during one of these episodes, because she does get flushed evenly on her neck and face, then the light headedness and other symptoms follow. Her husband said they’ve been trying to sort out the triggers and he felt the triggers were similar to her migraine triggers. All we could conclude is that it seems to be an issue of the regulatory system.
Side note: (The 4 of us (my friend and her husband, my husband and I) are all psychologists by the way. Nothing like 4 psychologists sitting in a sports bar playing arm-chair neurologists, while my friend turns various shades of red and tries to describe how she feels in coherent terms).
The rise then drop in blood pressure makes perfect sense with what she described and what I observed. I don’t know that it only happens when she’s eating but the majority of episodes have I think. I’ll pose the idea of swallow syncope. Maybe whoever treats her for her migraines would have a background with types of syncope as well.
Thanks for clarifying the difference too between a histamine reaction and syncope. This is a major help.
In friendship,
Carol
“.... people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.” Maya Angelou
Sounds like an episode of "Frasier" on steroids.Carol wrote:Side note: (The 4 of us (my friend and her husband, my husband and I) are all psychologists by the way. Nothing like 4 psychologists sitting in a sports bar playing arm-chair neurologists, while my friend turns various shades of red and tries to describe how she feels in coherent terms).
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
I think Tex has this one, but there may be more:
It may also be good to check her blood sugar. This is exactly how I used to feel after a meal with too many carbs because it spiked my blood sugar and then my overactive pancreas pumped out a whole lot of insulin super fast and my blood sugar would plummet within minutes. While I think Tex is probably right with the blood pressure, blood sugar drop may be exacerbating the reaction. The flushing, tunnel vision, and light-headedness were the hallmark symptoms, though I did also faint a few times.
The low blood sugar also triggered migraines and joint pain. My functional hypoglycemia was probably a symptom of my un-diagnosed Celiac, but it could be due to a lot of different issues. And hypoglycemia/insulin resistance can easily shift to diabetes, so better to be safe than sorry.
It may also be good to check her blood sugar. This is exactly how I used to feel after a meal with too many carbs because it spiked my blood sugar and then my overactive pancreas pumped out a whole lot of insulin super fast and my blood sugar would plummet within minutes. While I think Tex is probably right with the blood pressure, blood sugar drop may be exacerbating the reaction. The flushing, tunnel vision, and light-headedness were the hallmark symptoms, though I did also faint a few times.
The low blood sugar also triggered migraines and joint pain. My functional hypoglycemia was probably a symptom of my un-diagnosed Celiac, but it could be due to a lot of different issues. And hypoglycemia/insulin resistance can easily shift to diabetes, so better to be safe than sorry.
Kind Thoughts,
Liz
Liz