Hi Tex,
I recently joined a Facebook MC support group. I sing the praises of this forum and encourage many to join. I mentioned in one comment that MC causes Leaky Gut, leaky gut causes food sensitivities... (what my brain pieced together from reading on here)
A lady replied saying 'no, MC does not cause leaky gut.' and sited this webpage: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16938717/
After reading that I commented 'can you explain then why MC causes food sensitivities?' She said 'I can't find any research saying that MC causes food sensitivities. I believe it's a mistaken hypothesis.'
I'm curious to know your thoughts on this, and if you disagree with her do you have a source I could site to her?
I really do want to get my facts straight in the Facebook group, so if I am wrong I would like to know that too!
Thanks!
Hey Tex, and all you smart people, care to weigh in?
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
Hey Tex, and all you smart people, care to weigh in?
Karen
(AKA: KarenT)
(AKA: KarenT)
Re: Hey Tex, and all you smart people, care to weigh in?
Hello Karen,
Here's the sequence of events, as I understand it.
1. Any source of chronic inflammation can trigger microscopic colitis, especially when there are predisposing elements.
2. Examples of possible sources of chronic inflammation are bacterial infections, parasitic infections, viruses, stress, (including physical stress and psychological stress), and food sensitivities.
3. Chronic information causes increased intestinal porosity, a.k.a. leaky gut.
4. Leaky gut causes food sensitivities.
5. Food sensitivities perpetuate the inflammation (and the leaky gut).
6. Therefore, if MC has not already been triggered, leaky gut will probably eventually trigger it (not the other way around).
In other words, she's basically correct — MC does not cause leaky gut. Gluten and/or inflammation are two examples of things that can cause leaky gut. Excessive amounts of alcohol or sugar are two more examples Leaky gut is just one of many things that can cause MC. You are quite correct Though, in saying that leaky gut causes food sensitivities.
It may be easier to understand this relationship if you consider that microscopic colitis is merely a symptom of an inflammation syndrome that's usually perpetuated by food sensitivities that have been triggered by leaky gut. At least that's how I understand it.
Tex
Here's the sequence of events, as I understand it.
1. Any source of chronic inflammation can trigger microscopic colitis, especially when there are predisposing elements.
2. Examples of possible sources of chronic inflammation are bacterial infections, parasitic infections, viruses, stress, (including physical stress and psychological stress), and food sensitivities.
3. Chronic information causes increased intestinal porosity, a.k.a. leaky gut.
4. Leaky gut causes food sensitivities.
5. Food sensitivities perpetuate the inflammation (and the leaky gut).
6. Therefore, if MC has not already been triggered, leaky gut will probably eventually trigger it (not the other way around).
In other words, she's basically correct — MC does not cause leaky gut. Gluten and/or inflammation are two examples of things that can cause leaky gut. Excessive amounts of alcohol or sugar are two more examples Leaky gut is just one of many things that can cause MC. You are quite correct Though, in saying that leaky gut causes food sensitivities.
It may be easier to understand this relationship if you consider that microscopic colitis is merely a symptom of an inflammation syndrome that's usually perpetuated by food sensitivities that have been triggered by leaky gut. At least that's how I understand it.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Re: Hey Tex, and all you smart people, care to weigh in?
Thanks for explaining Tex! I try and not be too wordy on Facebook, people have a short attention span sometimes! And, they are looking for the quick fix. I'll amend my statements, in this regard, moving forward.
Karen
(AKA: KarenT)
(AKA: KarenT)
Re: Hey Tex, and all you smart people, care to weigh in?
This is so interesting to read and something I'd recently been wondering about myself, so thank you Karen for asking. I popped on with the same question in mind, typed "leaky gut" in the search box and this was the first post - answered my question straight away! :)
What I am wondering Tex is....do you think MC can be lying low in the background without any symptoms before the initial onset? I.e you can have increased white blood cells for a while without any ongoing D, therefore you don't know about it as there is no reason to investigate and find it?
I had increased white blood cells in my small intestine 14months prior to the onset of my LC and I have often wondered if that meant I already had it, but it wasn't active, or if it was unrelated. The biopsy at the time said in 10% of cases it was early onset Coeliacs, or an unknown autoimmune disease, or a random virus. Obviously, there really is no way of knowing, but I do often wonder.
Also I contracted Ross River Virus in March last year and that causes widespread inflammation. I always thought it had played a role in triggering the LC and now that I've read your theory, I believe it very likely did. Perhaps that, coupled with stress, coupled with too much sugar and too much alcohol....the perfect combination for onset!! :(
What I am wondering Tex is....do you think MC can be lying low in the background without any symptoms before the initial onset? I.e you can have increased white blood cells for a while without any ongoing D, therefore you don't know about it as there is no reason to investigate and find it?
I had increased white blood cells in my small intestine 14months prior to the onset of my LC and I have often wondered if that meant I already had it, but it wasn't active, or if it was unrelated. The biopsy at the time said in 10% of cases it was early onset Coeliacs, or an unknown autoimmune disease, or a random virus. Obviously, there really is no way of knowing, but I do often wonder.
Also I contracted Ross River Virus in March last year and that causes widespread inflammation. I always thought it had played a role in triggering the LC and now that I've read your theory, I believe it very likely did. Perhaps that, coupled with stress, coupled with too much sugar and too much alcohol....the perfect combination for onset!! :(
Re: Hey Tex, and all you smart people, care to weigh in?
Hi Alice,
MC doesn't develop overnight, it usually takes at least weeks, and in many cases, months or even years, before we become aware of it. The damage to our intestines due to the inflammation must reach a certain level in order to exceed our accumulated damage threshold for the reactions to began. That said, the clinical symptoms usually develop overnight, once we exceed that threshold. After the inflammation begins, and the white cells begin to infiltrate the cells in the lining of our intestines, at some point, the clinical symptoms will begin. That doesn't mean that we would be able to get a diagnosis at that point, however. Similar to celiac disease, our disease would have to have developed to at least a moderately advanced stage before our biopsies will show a sufficient concentration of lymphocytes to qualify for a diagnosis. In other words similarly to celiac disease, we have to have a lot of accumulated damage due to the disease, before we can get an official diagnosis. When our biopsies show a level of inflammation somewhere between normal and the minimum criteria required to qualify for a diagnosis of MC, we'll probably end up with an incorrect diagnosis of IBS.
Tex
MC doesn't develop overnight, it usually takes at least weeks, and in many cases, months or even years, before we become aware of it. The damage to our intestines due to the inflammation must reach a certain level in order to exceed our accumulated damage threshold for the reactions to began. That said, the clinical symptoms usually develop overnight, once we exceed that threshold. After the inflammation begins, and the white cells begin to infiltrate the cells in the lining of our intestines, at some point, the clinical symptoms will begin. That doesn't mean that we would be able to get a diagnosis at that point, however. Similar to celiac disease, our disease would have to have developed to at least a moderately advanced stage before our biopsies will show a sufficient concentration of lymphocytes to qualify for a diagnosis. In other words similarly to celiac disease, we have to have a lot of accumulated damage due to the disease, before we can get an official diagnosis. When our biopsies show a level of inflammation somewhere between normal and the minimum criteria required to qualify for a diagnosis of MC, we'll probably end up with an incorrect diagnosis of IBS.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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Gabes-Apg
- Emperor Penguin
- Posts: 8332
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:12 pm
- Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia
Re: Hey Tex, and all you smart people, care to weigh in?
A few years ago i was encouraged to join the facebook based MC groups so I could share some wisdom and help answer questions
what i found was that people a) just want quick fix
and b) do not want to approach health functionally. they are happy to take a medication to band aid symptoms
the thought of making long term diet and lifestyle changes was a horrifying thought to most.
so alot of the answers you were given are along that mindset.
you can lead someone to knowledge but you cant make them think!
Tex's explaination is spot on
what i found was that people a) just want quick fix
and b) do not want to approach health functionally. they are happy to take a medication to band aid symptoms
the thought of making long term diet and lifestyle changes was a horrifying thought to most.
so alot of the answers you were given are along that mindset.
you can lead someone to knowledge but you cant make them think!
Tex's explaination is spot on
I would add number 7 to this grouping ongoing inflammation depletes key nutrients. this contributes to food sensitivities, leaky gut, and allows other health issues affect other organs putting more stress on the gutHere's the sequence of events, as I understand it.
1. Any source of chronic inflammation can trigger microscopic colitis, especially when there are predisposing elements.
2. Examples of possible sources of chronic inflammation are bacterial infections, parasitic infections, viruses, stress, (including physical stress and psychological stress), and food sensitivities.
3. Chronic information causes increased intestinal porosity, a.k.a. leaky gut.
4. Leaky gut causes food sensitivities.
5. Food sensitivities perpetuate the inflammation (and the leaky gut).
6. Therefore, if MC has not already been triggered, leaky gut will probably eventually trigger it (not the other way around).
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama