So-called "carnivore diet"

[bttory]

Hello all,

The so-called "carnivore diet" has been getting some buzz lately. Essentially, it involves eating only meat, water and salt. People that follow it claim it eliminates (or at least reduces) autoimmune issues, etc. I think there is a bit of a "fad" element here, and very candidly, the thought of eating only meat sits wrong with me (I can't imagine eating only meat, I question whether my nutritional needs can be met by only meat, I don't like the thought of killing that many animals to sustain myself).

That being said, I credit my remission from MC on fantastic advice from this board, the majority of which suggested eating mostly meat when I was recovering. I did just that, and it worked. In fact, the best I've ever felt (both in terms of MC symptoms but also other issues) is when I ate large amounts of meat, and nothing else.

I did some searching and see that some on this board have had great success with a "keto" diet that includes large amounts of meat, some veges, and no grains, dairy, etc. I was wondering if any one here has done the "carnivore diet," or something similar, and if so, what results they achieved (if any). The thought of abandoning (or reducing significantly) my already limited vegetable intake sits wrong with me (from a nutritional standpoint), but I have to say, my loose stools and bloating and other MC symptoms only appear when I eat vegetables (or dairy, grains and fruits - but I have eliminated those others due to them being triggers for me).

I appreciate any insight or experience or thoughts on the topic. Thanks

[jcml12]

I was told when I was first diagnosed in June 2014 by my Naturopath , No grains, gluten, dairy or soy even though I did not test positive for any of these as far as an allergic reaction. Basically I follow the Paleo Diet for the most part. I also had Sibo so there were veggies that really stir that up that I stay away from but are excepted on Paleo. I have eaten this way since and usually have no problem. Every once in a while I will have some loose stools but not full blown D. I am usually very tired also when this happens so I think it is more like a bug or that maybe there was some type of chemical that didn't get washed off veggies or something. Usually only last a few days. You are right though that Protein does the trick. Hope this helps.

[JFR]

I am thinking of trying the carnivore diet for a month. I am in remission but I still have a chronic pain issue and an issue with mild depression (it used to be severe) and there have been suggestions that an all meat diet can help clear these kinds of things up. I figure trying it for a month can't hurt. I've been listening to some talks and interviews by or with Amber O'Hearn and Mikhaila Peterson on Biohackers on YouTube. Every diet that goes against the standard advice is considered a "fad", gluten free is considered a fad, low carb is considered a fad, keto is considered a fad, but many people have great success following these "fads" for all kinds of issues. I've been low carb paleo for years now and have resolved all kinds of issues well beyond the digestive ones. I figure it can't hurt to give the carnivorous diet a try for a month and see what happens. I pretty much only eat meat fish and vegetables now so it's not so great a stretch.

You could take a look at this article too: https://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-car ... ggestions/

Jean

[bttory]

I am thinking of trying the carnivore diet for a month. I am in remission but I still have a chronic pain issue and an issue with mild depression (it used to be severe) and there have been suggestions that an all meat diet can help clear these kinds of things up. I figure trying it for a month can't hurt. I've been listening to some talks and interviews by or with Amber O'Hearn and Mikhaila Peterson on Biohackers on YouTube. Every diet that goes against the standard advice is considered a "fad", gluten free is considered a fad, low carb is considered a fad, keto is considered a fad, but many people have great success following these "fads" for all kinds of issues. I've been low carb paleo for years now and have resolved all kinds of issues well beyond the digestive ones. I figure it can't hurt to give the carnivorous diet a try for a month and see what happens. I pretty much only eat meat fish and vegetables now so it's not so great a stretch.

You could take a look at this article too: https://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-car ... ggestions/

Jean

Thanks Jean. I have to admit, I'm tempted to try for 1 month, too. Not necessarily to stick with it for life, but perhaps to give whatever is causing my bloating a break, and then try to add veges back in. I eat only meat, veges and the occasional root vegetable (taro or cassava) but even with that restriction I am constantly bloated. Thus my mild interest in a meat only diet.

As for resources, I just listened to the Mikhaila Peterson episode of the Joe Rogan podcast, and I've listened to a few featuring Shawn Baker, another carnivore diet advocate. There is a Hungarian doctor doing some studies on the diet (and advocating it for people with chronic diseases, including autoimmune disease), but it seems to me that he is biased (advocating for the diet and creating studies to support it, rather than objectively evaluating the diet). It's hard for me to get good information, however, because I feel like any discussion on the diet becomes a "carnivores vs. vegans" battle. If you have any sources that discuss the topic objectively, and rooted in science, I'd appreciate you passing them along. And if you end up giving the diet a try, would you be comfortable sharing your experience?

Good to connect with you and thanks for responding.

[bttory]

I was told when I was first diagnosed in June 2014 by my Naturopath , No grains, gluten, dairy or soy even though I did not test positive for any of these as far as an allergic reaction. Basically I follow the Paleo Diet for the most part. I also had Sibo so there were veggies that really stir that up that I stay away from but are excepted on Paleo. I have eaten this way since and usually have no problem. Every once in a while I will have some loose stools but not full blown D. I am usually very tired also when this happens so I think it is more like a bug or that maybe there was some type of chemical that didn't get washed off veggies or something. Usually only last a few days. You are right though that Protein does the trick. Hope this helps.

Thanks for the insight. You eat essentially the same way I do, and like you, I have normal stools for the most part. But I am really bloated so I am trying to tweak the paleo diet to account for that - thus the interest in a pure carnivore diet. Thanks for weighing in!

[JFR]

There are of course no "scientific" studies of the carnivore diet. Like here on the forum however there are lots of n=1 testimonials to its effectiveness. Anecdotes might not be science but they do at least build a compelling case for an all meat diet not being dangerous. The most scientifically inclined people on the topic that I have found are Georgia Ede who speaks about why plants are not as healthy as e tend to think they are. I read a while back that she was going to start eating an all meat diet so I'm hoping that she will write about it one of these days. She is someone who truly studies the research. Also she has a lot of food sensitivities and has cut out many foods from her diet as we have. This is her website: http://www.diagnosisdiet.com/

Another scientifically oriented carnivore is Amber O"Hearn whose eaten all meat since 2009. Here's a Biohackers interview with her:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhxeVU-vT3Q

Marty Kendall, whose interest is in nutrient density, also analyzes the carnivorous diet on his website:
https://optimisingnutrition.com/2018/03 ... -a-review/

The question I have is about micronutrients. I have long been a fan of Dr Terry Wahls and her Wahl's protocol but it relies upon lots of vegetables for their micronutrient content. I am not sure how to square what she says with what the carnivorous folks say. Lot's of unanswered question. I still think trying a carnivorous diet is worth a try. Thinking about this brought me back to what I did after finding this forum many years ago. I started eating meat only because it was the only way I could control my then totally uncontrollable symptoms so maybe I already know that it can be beneficial for my gut in the short term. Long term is the real question.

Jean

[jcml12]

You mentioned bloated. Have you been checked for Sibo (Small Intestinal Bacteria Overgrowth)? Bloating is one of the big signs of that. There is a specific antibiotic to take to get rid of Sibo as well as a natural remedy. If you look online for the Low Fodmap Diet which is recommended if you have Sibo you might be able to tell the foods you eat if any are high Fodmap you want to stay away from those. But you need to know if you have it first. I wish you luck.
Jan

[Rosie]

Are you taking probiotics? An earlier post of mine had a link to a Science Daily report on how certain probiotics can actually cause bloating by producing lots of lactic acid. Here is that link again:

Probiotic use can result in a significant accumulation of bacteria in the small intestine that can result in disorienting brain fogginess as well as rapid, significant belly bloating, investigators report.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 095213.htm

Rosie

[bttory]

There are of course no "scientific" studies of the carnivore diet. Like here on the forum however there are lots of n=1 testimonials to its effectiveness. Anecdotes might not be science but they do at least build a compelling case for an all meat diet not being dangerous. The most scientifically inclined people on the topic that I have found are Georgia Ede who speaks about why plants are not as healthy as e tend to think they are. I read a while back that she was going to start eating an all meat diet so I'm hoping that she will write about it one of these days. She is someone who truly studies the research. Also she has a lot of food sensitivities and has cut out many foods from her diet as we have. This is her website: http://www.diagnosisdiet.com/

Another scientifically oriented carnivore is Amber O"Hearn whose eaten all meat since 2009. Here's a Biohackers interview with her:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhxeVU-vT3Q

Marty Kendall, whose interest is in nutrient density, also analyzes the carnivorous diet on his website:
https://optimisingnutrition.com/2018/03 ... -a-review/

The question I have is about micronutrients. I have long been a fan of Dr Terry Wahls and her Wahl's protocol but it relies upon lots of vegetables for their micronutrient content. I am not sure how to square what she says with what the carnivorous folks say. Lot's of unanswered question. I still think trying a carnivorous diet is worth a try. Thinking about this brought me back to what I did after finding this forum many years ago. I started eating meat only because it was the only way I could control my then totally uncontrollable symptoms so maybe I already know that it can be beneficial for my gut in the short term. Long term is the real question.

Jean

Thanks for the links, and the well thought out answer. I'll review those resources. I had the same realization as you: when my MC was new and uncontrollable, the only remedy (besides drugs) was a nearly all meat diet. I did well on it and it brought be to recovery. Perhaps there is something to it for people in our situation. And, like you, I wonder about the long term effects and lack of micro-nutrients. But the nagging voice in the back of my head says: if you feel good eating only meat, and if you bloat and have loose stools when you eat supposedly "healthy foods" (vegetables, fruit, etc.), perhaps my body is giving me the answer (eat mostly meat), regardless of the fact that the answer flies in the face of everything I've ever been taught (veges and fruit are healthy for you) and mainstream thinking on the subject.

I'll post any interesting information (or results) I come across. Thanks for the interesting dialog.

[bttory]

You mentioned bloated. Have you been checked for Sibo (Small Intestinal Bacteria Overgrowth)? Bloating is one of the big signs of that. There is a specific antibiotic to take to get rid of Sibo as well as a natural remedy. If you look online for the Low Fodmap Diet which is recommended if you have Sibo you might be able to tell the foods you eat if any are high Fodmap you want to stay away from those. But you need to know if you have it first. I wish you luck.
Jan

Hi Jan, I was given a breath test for SIBO and it came back positive. I went on the antibiotic, but it didn't help. I also took the microbial antibiotics; they did not work. With diet, I was able to control some of the bloating and gas that was thought to be a result of SIBO (avoiding starches, grains, dairy, etc.), but at the end of the day, that bring me back to whether I should follow the carnivore diet (which is the only diet that keeps me un-bloated). Thanks for weighing in.

[bttory]

Are you taking probiotics? An earlier post of mine had a link to a Science Daily report on how certain probiotics can actually cause bloating by producing lots of lactic acid. Here is that link again:

Probiotic use can result in a significant accumulation of bacteria in the small intestine that can result in disorienting brain fogginess as well as rapid, significant belly bloating, investigators report.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 095213.htm

Rosie

Thanks Rosie! Way back when I tried probiotics hoping they may help, but they did in fact cause me to bloat - so I stopped using them. Thanks for your input.

[Jungyst]

It’s been awhile since I wrote. I am grateful for the links on Carnivore diet and all that I am learning here. I have been on the Autoimmune Paleo diet for a number of years and during that time I was also on Budesonide from 2019 to 2021. I weaned off very gradually because I wanted to try to induce remission without it. I lost bone density despite being on Forteo during the same time period. Like so many,my watery diarrhea came back when Istopped the Budesonide. My new GP has an Integrated Medicine practice.He recommended I go on the Carnivore diet. I have been on it for 7 weeks as of this writing. I have had an average of 7 episodes of watery diarrhea daily. My energy is good. I have lost weight which is not good. Before Microscopic colitis my normal weight was 125. I am currently at 105. After straight carnivore for 5 weeks my doctor suggested I add honey, some fruits and add vegetables last. I added honey and then banana and then high fat coconut milk to make a daily shake for weight gain. Otherwise I am all Carnivore. I hesitate to add much more until the watery diarrhea stops. Any thoughts????

[tex]

Hi,

As far as I'm aware, If your diet is not being somehow cross-contaminated, there are two primary possibilities why you're not able to reach complete remission.

1. There's insufficient animal fat in your diet.

2. You have BAM (bile acid malabsorption). Medical research shows that 40% of chronic diarrhea cases that do not respond to treatment are due to BAM.

Tex

[HockeyMom]

I will add my 2 cents here..I fall into the BAM camp. CHOLESTYRAMINE, and lots of it works for me. But thru the years I’ve come to see that low stomach acid is also a huge deal. Whenever I think I can cut the supplemental Betaine HCl down (with meals) ...poop quality slowly starts going the wrong direction. I’m back up to 5 capsules with each meal.

You might just want to add that and see if it helps

Laine

[Jungyst]

Thank you both. I will try both. I was on Cholestyramine for two weeks before goin on the Carnivore diet. I was not seeing results and wanted to stop since it had sugar in it and I wanted to do pure Carnivore as directed. I will try the BetaineHCL first. Did the HCL help stop the diarrhea?