My doctor called me this morning to tell me that I tested positive for h. pylori. Wow, I am sure glad that I didn't stop searching for answers because h. pylori can lead to serious disease (e.g. cancer). And my poor husband is having a return of many of his troubles too. He's going to get tested this afternoon.
While not the accepted medical model, some researchers / doctors beleive that patients with h. pylori have increased permeability of the gastric mucosa and so are potentially exposed to unprocessed antigens from food. Now, isn't that interesting... They say this might predispose to immune problems. H.pylori antibodies cross react with several tissues in the GUT so autoimmune states are possible with H.pylori.
Got to go! Best to all, Celia
tested positive for H. Pylori
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
tested positive for H. Pylori
I beleive in magic!
-
barbaranoela
- Emperor Penguin
- Posts: 5394
- Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 6:11 pm
- Location: New York
My GI and GP ---said H-P when I went for diagnosis
But ,with all the stool testing---H-Pylori *never* was part of my issues--
I was hoping it was that---- they said it was easy to treat???
As Shirl said-----sounds like *better* good news-----
Barbara
But ,with all the stool testing---H-Pylori *never* was part of my issues--
I was hoping it was that---- they said it was easy to treat???
As Shirl said-----sounds like *better* good news-----
Barbara
the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness and self-control
Celia,
Well, you said only yesterday in a response to one of my posts, that you thought you had something else going on besides MC. Obvioiusly you were right.
I'm kind of surprised that your docs didn't catch this a lot sooner.
I'm guessing that you'll be using a Z-pak treatment for a couple of weeks, since most MC patients seem to tolerate Z-pak pretty well.
Tex
Well, you said only yesterday in a response to one of my posts, that you thought you had something else going on besides MC. Obvioiusly you were right.
I'm kind of surprised that your docs didn't catch this a lot sooner.
I'm guessing that you'll be using a Z-pak treatment for a couple of weeks, since most MC patients seem to tolerate Z-pak pretty well.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Tex - what's a 'z - pack' treatment? My doctor recommended two antibiotics and a proton pump inhibitor. Is that the same thing? But I think antibiotics would be hard on my body, and could cause other problems.
Dr. Sherry Roger's says that Pepto Bismol (Bismuth subsalicylate) does the trick and is much less toxic and usually works in two weeks. That's the one that helps MC too. Research has shown its effectiveness.
Thorne Research has an herbal treatment with includes bismuth and and an antimicrobial (berberis) and some other nice ingredients called Formula 734 which I can pair with Helicobactin from Ecological Formulas. I think the herbal approach will be gentler on my system.
I am going to see what my naturopath recommends.
Shirley and Barbara - Yes!!!!! Something that can be treated!!!!! Apparently, it's not a piece of cake to eradicate H.pylori and you need to be checked a year later as recurrence isn't uncommon. But the treatment usually does work...so that's exciting.
Thanks for the support. Warmly, Celia
Dr. Sherry Roger's says that Pepto Bismol (Bismuth subsalicylate) does the trick and is much less toxic and usually works in two weeks. That's the one that helps MC too. Research has shown its effectiveness.
Thorne Research has an herbal treatment with includes bismuth and and an antimicrobial (berberis) and some other nice ingredients called Formula 734 which I can pair with Helicobactin from Ecological Formulas. I think the herbal approach will be gentler on my system.
I am going to see what my naturopath recommends.
Shirley and Barbara - Yes!!!!! Something that can be treated!!!!! Apparently, it's not a piece of cake to eradicate H.pylori and you need to be checked a year later as recurrence isn't uncommon. But the treatment usually does work...so that's exciting.
Thanks for the support. Warmly, Celia
I beleive in magic!
-
barbaranoela
- Emperor Penguin
- Posts: 5394
- Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 6:11 pm
- Location: New York
Celia,
You're correct about the risk of antibiotics causing other problems with your digestive system. Z-pak is a treatment package using azithromycin, (which is one of the least likely antibiotics to cause additonal digestive system problems for people with MC). One of my neighbors recently was treated for H. pylori, using consecutive treatments with Z-pak.
Often, though, a doctor will prescribe more than one antibiotic for the program, in order to cover all bases in case the patiient has a strain that is resistant to one or more antibiotics.If I recall correctly, Z-pak is a five-day treatment, consisting of one pill a day, so while some doctors just follow up with a second Z-pak course, others prescribe a different antibiotic, or even a third one.
The proton pump inhibitor is prescribed simply to stop the production of stomach acid, presumably to protect your stomach lining from the risk of acid damage, but it may play havoc with your digestion. I'm not sure if that's routinely included in a treatment program or not.
Yes, Pepto Bismol is an antibacterial agent, and will certainly kill H. pylori. Since it tends to coat the stomach walls, though, I'm not sure that any other treatment that you use in conjunction with it will be able to even get to the mucosa, in order to have any effect on the H. pylori bacteria.
Many types of antibiotics will kill H. pylori, but the trick, (especially for people with colitis), is to get rid of the H. pylori, without creating a potentially worse problem, such as a C. diff infection.
Certain antibiotics are known to have a history of causing a high risk of a C. diff infection, whereas others are much safer to use. You might want to read this post in the Information on Medications forum:
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=870
Good luck with your treatment program.
Tex
You're correct about the risk of antibiotics causing other problems with your digestive system. Z-pak is a treatment package using azithromycin, (which is one of the least likely antibiotics to cause additonal digestive system problems for people with MC). One of my neighbors recently was treated for H. pylori, using consecutive treatments with Z-pak.
Often, though, a doctor will prescribe more than one antibiotic for the program, in order to cover all bases in case the patiient has a strain that is resistant to one or more antibiotics.If I recall correctly, Z-pak is a five-day treatment, consisting of one pill a day, so while some doctors just follow up with a second Z-pak course, others prescribe a different antibiotic, or even a third one.
The proton pump inhibitor is prescribed simply to stop the production of stomach acid, presumably to protect your stomach lining from the risk of acid damage, but it may play havoc with your digestion. I'm not sure if that's routinely included in a treatment program or not.
Yes, Pepto Bismol is an antibacterial agent, and will certainly kill H. pylori. Since it tends to coat the stomach walls, though, I'm not sure that any other treatment that you use in conjunction with it will be able to even get to the mucosa, in order to have any effect on the H. pylori bacteria.
Many types of antibiotics will kill H. pylori, but the trick, (especially for people with colitis), is to get rid of the H. pylori, without creating a potentially worse problem, such as a C. diff infection.
Certain antibiotics are known to have a history of causing a high risk of a C. diff infection, whereas others are much safer to use. You might want to read this post in the Information on Medications forum:
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=870
Good luck with your treatment program.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Glad you are feeling so positive about it all, Celia. In my case I believe I'd go for the anitbiotic and enough to get it GONE. Deal with the consequences later. I know the consequences aren't always pleasant but I sure wouldn't trust Pepto Bismol to do the job. Just my opinion.Anyway, I hope you know that I wish you the best luck in eradicating the culprit whichever way you go.
Love, Shirley
When the eagles are silent, the parrots begin to jabber"
-- Winston Churchill
-- Winston Churchill
I have to agree with Shirley about the bismuth subsalicylate--it will certainly inhibit H. pylori activity, but I'm not sure that it will do a 100% job of eradicating the bacteria. It will provide a soothing effect to your stomach, and parts downstream, however.
Upon looking it up, I see that the Mayo Clinic suggests the inclusion of a proton pump inhibitor in a treatment program for H. pylori, so that is apparently a good idea.
Tex
Upon looking it up, I see that the Mayo Clinic suggests the inclusion of a proton pump inhibitor in a treatment program for H. pylori, so that is apparently a good idea.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Tex, Thanks for the information and the link about antibiotics. Very useful! The point about PB coating the stomach is interesting. At the moment, my husband is tending toward trying out the PB and, depending upon what my naturopath says, I will probably try the herbal microbials. Your point about the stomach coating is well taken. Thanks very much I let him know that it probably wouldn't be worthwhile to try anything else along with the PB. He just got tested this afternoon and we will have his results in a day or two.
Apparently PB has a high cure rate, but little research is devoted to, probably because it is a non-prescription drug. In the research I've read on MC, some researchers suspect that PB works on MC because of it's anit-microbial effect--- they suspect a bacterial involvement in MC. Of course, no one has the final word on that yet, but it's an interesting supposition, and I beleive that Dr. Fine's work shows PB (bismuth subsalicylate) to be effective for MC.
At any rate, I've called my GI doc to see if she can do a qualitative antibody assay so, whatever treatment we do, we can test again and see if the levels are decreasing. That way the proof is in the pudding so to speak and we can switch treatments if we find one is not effective.
Thanks again, Celia
Apparently PB has a high cure rate, but little research is devoted to, probably because it is a non-prescription drug. In the research I've read on MC, some researchers suspect that PB works on MC because of it's anit-microbial effect--- they suspect a bacterial involvement in MC. Of course, no one has the final word on that yet, but it's an interesting supposition, and I beleive that Dr. Fine's work shows PB (bismuth subsalicylate) to be effective for MC.
At any rate, I've called my GI doc to see if she can do a qualitative antibody assay so, whatever treatment we do, we can test again and see if the levels are decreasing. That way the proof is in the pudding so to speak and we can switch treatments if we find one is not effective.
Thanks again, Celia
I beleive in magic!
Shirley,
I appreciate your concern! I can definitely understand why you would go the antibiotic route, and respect your feeling about it. It is no doubt the right thing for you. In my case, antibiotics, I am convinced, are what got me in this illness boat in the first place. I plan to avoid them like the plague!!!! I got violently ill two weeks after taking a course of antibiotics in 2004 and my health took a radical downslide afterward. I haven't been well since. Of course, any illness is multifactoral, but I beleive the antibiotics were the trigger. Because of this, I want to try the natural anti-microbioals first and only use the antibiotics as a last recourse.
But I will definitely test again to make sure the treatment is effective.
You are very sweet and I always appreciate hearing your perspective.
Love, Celia
I appreciate your concern! I can definitely understand why you would go the antibiotic route, and respect your feeling about it. It is no doubt the right thing for you. In my case, antibiotics, I am convinced, are what got me in this illness boat in the first place. I plan to avoid them like the plague!!!! I got violently ill two weeks after taking a course of antibiotics in 2004 and my health took a radical downslide afterward. I haven't been well since. Of course, any illness is multifactoral, but I beleive the antibiotics were the trigger. Because of this, I want to try the natural anti-microbioals first and only use the antibiotics as a last recourse.
But I will definitely test again to make sure the treatment is effective.
You are very sweet and I always appreciate hearing your perspective.
Love, Celia
I beleive in magic!
Celia.
You hit the nail right on the head with your comment about research and non-prescription drugs. Since drug companies pay for all the research, they're always going to put their money where they get the most bang for their buck. It would be illogical to do otherwise.
Even oral antibiotics probably have some systemic effects, that is, they are also absorbed into the blood stream, (in the small intestine), and circulated throughout the body, to some extent, so they will probably still have some effect, even if the stomach wall is well coated with PB.
I realize that some researchers have stated that they suspect a bacterial connection with MC. I disagree with that position, though. For one thing, if bacteria were the problem, the symptoms could not be controlled by diet alone, and we all know that it can be controlled by diet alone.
My opinion is that MC is probably caused by a virus. That would allow for control of symtoms by diet alone, and it would preempt the other inconsistencies involved with the theory that bacteria cause MC.
Dr. Fine was the one who originally developed the PB treatment for MC, but it was recommended to be used collaterally with the GF diet. He no longer recommends the PB treatment as the treatment of choice for MC. These days he recommends the GF diet as the preferred treatment, without the PB.
Tex
You hit the nail right on the head with your comment about research and non-prescription drugs. Since drug companies pay for all the research, they're always going to put their money where they get the most bang for their buck. It would be illogical to do otherwise.
Even oral antibiotics probably have some systemic effects, that is, they are also absorbed into the blood stream, (in the small intestine), and circulated throughout the body, to some extent, so they will probably still have some effect, even if the stomach wall is well coated with PB.
I realize that some researchers have stated that they suspect a bacterial connection with MC. I disagree with that position, though. For one thing, if bacteria were the problem, the symptoms could not be controlled by diet alone, and we all know that it can be controlled by diet alone.
My opinion is that MC is probably caused by a virus. That would allow for control of symtoms by diet alone, and it would preempt the other inconsistencies involved with the theory that bacteria cause MC.
Dr. Fine was the one who originally developed the PB treatment for MC, but it was recommended to be used collaterally with the GF diet. He no longer recommends the PB treatment as the treatment of choice for MC. These days he recommends the GF diet as the preferred treatment, without the PB.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Hi Celia,
So you have H. pylori! It is good that you found out.
And good luck with your treatment program. Just a reminder - bismuth is a heavy metal.........so I would advise NOT taking any preparations to remove heavy metals from your body while you are using the PB.
I'm not exactly sure why Dr. Fine found that PB helped MC - he did tell me that PB has a mild antibacterial effect. Maybe it works on bacteria that "co-exists" with the MC in some people. We know that some MCers actually find that their MC gets better when they use certain antibiotics......Cipro is the one that comes to mind. Of course, heavy metals like bismuth and zinc have been known for years to help diarrhea.
Anyway, keep us posted on your progress. I know that you are anxious to resolve all of your health issues before embarking on your spiritual journey. I am intrigued by your plans and would love to do something like that someday. (I live about 10 miles from a dharma house with an American-Buddhist monk in residence, and I have so enjoyed taking part in some of their activities........services, meditations, etc.).
Love,
Polly
So you have H. pylori! It is good that you found out.
And good luck with your treatment program. Just a reminder - bismuth is a heavy metal.........so I would advise NOT taking any preparations to remove heavy metals from your body while you are using the PB.
I'm not exactly sure why Dr. Fine found that PB helped MC - he did tell me that PB has a mild antibacterial effect. Maybe it works on bacteria that "co-exists" with the MC in some people. We know that some MCers actually find that their MC gets better when they use certain antibiotics......Cipro is the one that comes to mind. Of course, heavy metals like bismuth and zinc have been known for years to help diarrhea.
Anyway, keep us posted on your progress. I know that you are anxious to resolve all of your health issues before embarking on your spiritual journey. I am intrigued by your plans and would love to do something like that someday. (I live about 10 miles from a dharma house with an American-Buddhist monk in residence, and I have so enjoyed taking part in some of their activities........services, meditations, etc.).
Love,
Polly
Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused.
Polly,
Thanks for the tip on bismuth being a heavy metal. I will take that into consideration. I know PB has aluminum which can accumulate in the body as well.
Glad you are enjoy a bit of dharma! You are right - it's a total luxury to be able to study and practice for three years. I feel extremely fortunate.
Hugs, Celia
Thanks for the tip on bismuth being a heavy metal. I will take that into consideration. I know PB has aluminum which can accumulate in the body as well.
Glad you are enjoy a bit of dharma! You are right - it's a total luxury to be able to study and practice for three years. I feel extremely fortunate.
Hugs, Celia
I beleive in magic!
Tex,
Thanks for clarifying Dr. Fine's current treatment. I don't think h. pylori directly caused my MC. However, it's known to lower immunity and therefore set the stage for autoimmune disease.
At this stage, it's impossible to know what came first - the MC or the HP. I think I did have some type of bug in 2004 when the health downslide begain, given that it was like being struck by lightening with gastro symptoms for five days. Whether it was influenza, c. diff or something else, we will probably never known. But the effect over the next six months was dramatic and impacted multiple systems.
Because my experience is different than many people on the board, I am beginning to think that I didn't have the MC at the beginning of my illness and that it simply got better over time as I adjusted my diet, but rather that it's something that came later as my immune system was more and more comprimised. I suspect my biopsy results are indicative of an early stage of MC rather than an improvement. Fortunately, I was already started on the GF diet and now finally DF too.
But this is all speculative!
Tex, how is it that a diet change alone would control symptoms caused by a virus? And do you think the virus is still present even when the symtpoms have been controlled? Hope I am not being a PITA!
Sandra
Thanks for clarifying Dr. Fine's current treatment. I don't think h. pylori directly caused my MC. However, it's known to lower immunity and therefore set the stage for autoimmune disease.
At this stage, it's impossible to know what came first - the MC or the HP. I think I did have some type of bug in 2004 when the health downslide begain, given that it was like being struck by lightening with gastro symptoms for five days. Whether it was influenza, c. diff or something else, we will probably never known. But the effect over the next six months was dramatic and impacted multiple systems.
Because my experience is different than many people on the board, I am beginning to think that I didn't have the MC at the beginning of my illness and that it simply got better over time as I adjusted my diet, but rather that it's something that came later as my immune system was more and more comprimised. I suspect my biopsy results are indicative of an early stage of MC rather than an improvement. Fortunately, I was already started on the GF diet and now finally DF too.
But this is all speculative!
Tex, how is it that a diet change alone would control symptoms caused by a virus? And do you think the virus is still present even when the symtpoms have been controlled? Hope I am not being a PITA!
Sandra
I beleive in magic!