Hiya Marsha,
I saw your post on the other thread about your health history. Fascinating. Especially the fact that you were diagnosed with lupus and that now it is gone (except for some remaining inflammatory markers). I have seen some other anecdotal stories on the internet of people whose lupus went away once they were gluten-free. Do you have a strong family history of autoimmune diseases?
I haven't checked, but if you haven't already, please cut and paste your story into the Experiences with Diet Forum. Your experience needs to be on "record" here.
Love,
Polly
Paging Marsha!
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
Paging Marsha!
Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused.
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Hi Polly,
Thanks. My dad has mild MS, lupus, prostate cancer in remission after surgery with ongoing hormone therapy. He had an uncle who died of MS, and a cousin who has a moderate case of it now (she's using a walker). On the other side, my mom's sister has Raynaud's, and another sister has twin boys with autism (I don't really know if it's autoimmune/diet related). There is some diabetes on that side.
And I finally feel really close to normal, now that I eat no grains at all. That was the final missing piece, I think. I'm not sure gluten-free is the entire answer for me. Somehow it involves dairy and grains as well, and maybe if I were to stay entirely gluten free for a longer period, there would be healing enough to eat the other things. Only time would tell. But right now I'm feeling the best I've felt in 10 years.
Love, Marsha
Thanks. My dad has mild MS, lupus, prostate cancer in remission after surgery with ongoing hormone therapy. He had an uncle who died of MS, and a cousin who has a moderate case of it now (she's using a walker). On the other side, my mom's sister has Raynaud's, and another sister has twin boys with autism (I don't really know if it's autoimmune/diet related). There is some diabetes on that side.
And I finally feel really close to normal, now that I eat no grains at all. That was the final missing piece, I think. I'm not sure gluten-free is the entire answer for me. Somehow it involves dairy and grains as well, and maybe if I were to stay entirely gluten free for a longer period, there would be healing enough to eat the other things. Only time would tell. But right now I'm feeling the best I've felt in 10 years.
Love, Marsha
Hi Marsha!
Interesting about your family history. And, I was just surfing around and saw this discussion, which is part of an interview with Cordain that corroborates your own experience:
"Robert Crayhon: I know you're doing some groundbreaking work right now looking at the role of high consumption of grains as a possible trigger for many auto-immune diseases. Can you comment on that?
Loren Cordain: We don't have any clinical data at this point. We have a theoretical model which points in many directions towards exactly what you're saying.
Robert Crayhon: Are multiple sclerosis, lupus and rheumatoid arthritis rare in populations where no grain products are consumed?
Loren Cordain: Some epidemiological evidence would indicate exactly that. Part of the problem in getting epidemiological evidence like this is that there are very few populations on this planet that don't eat cereal grains...Prior to acculturation, Eskimos and peoples of the far North were reported to have a low incidence of auto-immune diseases. With acculturation, the prevalence of auto-immune diseases are increasing in these populations and may approach Western levels.
Experimentally, we know that the expression of certain auto-immune diseases (e.g. insulin dependent diabetes mellitus IDDM) increases in animal models when they are fed high cereal grain diets. We believe that cereal grains may influence immune function by the ability of their lectins (specifically wheat germ agglutinin-WGA) to allow passage of undegraded dietary antigens and antigens derived from intestinal pathogens (viruses and bacteria) to peripheral tissue. Through a process called molecular mimicry, in which there are structural similarities between the body's own tissue and that of the dietary antigen and/or the intestinal pathogen antigen, the immune system loses the ability to distinguish self tissue from non-self tissue and mounts an immune attack upon the body's own tissue. Many of these structural similarities between cereal grain peptides and the body's own tissues seem to involve collagenous tissues.
Robert Crayhon: Which grains have protein sequences closest to human collagen tissue?
Loren Cordain: The literature suggests that the alcohol soluble portion of wheat contains peptide sequences that may mimic peptide sequences in the body. But it's a more complicated issue than that. It has to do with the genetics of the person with the auto-immune disease as well.
Robert Crayhon: The upshot of all this is that it couldn't hurt if you've got an auto-immune disease to try a grain-free diet.
Loren Cordain: Well, it's more than grain-free. We found again from a Paleolithic perspective that humans didn't drink a lot of dairy, nor did they consume legumes or yeast-containing foods. Dairy, legumes, and yeast contain peptides with amino acid sequence that are homologous to amino acid sequences in a variety of human tissues as well.
Robert Crayhon: What about other foods such as fowl, fish, and fruits and vegetables? Are these foods that are relatively free of these similar proteins?
Loren Cordain: Generally speaking, most people don't have trouble with land based flesh foods. Some people have trouble with shellfish or seafood from an immunological perspective. Elimination diets tend not to use shellfish or fish, as some people have trouble with these.
Robert Crayhon: But as you've said, the grains, the dairy products, the legumes, and yeast are the much more likely suspects. Any closing comments on the immune problems caused by the agricultural revolution before we close our discussion?
Loren Cordain: I think we need to have clinical trails obviously eliminating these kinds of foods: cereal grains, dairy products, legumes, and yeast. This would be difficult for people who have been weaned on a Western diet, but humans throughout most of the course of our stay on this planet did not eat those foods or rarely ate those foods. These proteins are alien to our immune system. We would hope that clinical trails involving elimination of these suspect peptides will be done in the future and hopefully may be of benefit to people with auto-immune problems.
Robert Crayhon: Dr. Cordain, thank you for spending time with us today and sharing these groundbreaking ideas with us. Your work embodies Stravinsky's phrase that "revolution means going back all the way around to where you started from".
Loren Cordain: My pleasure, Robert."
Loren Cordain, PhD, can be contacted at:
Professor, Department of Exercise & Sports Science
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, Colorado 80523 USA
Interview reprinted by permission from Life Services
Love,
Polly
Interesting about your family history. And, I was just surfing around and saw this discussion, which is part of an interview with Cordain that corroborates your own experience:
"Robert Crayhon: I know you're doing some groundbreaking work right now looking at the role of high consumption of grains as a possible trigger for many auto-immune diseases. Can you comment on that?
Loren Cordain: We don't have any clinical data at this point. We have a theoretical model which points in many directions towards exactly what you're saying.
Robert Crayhon: Are multiple sclerosis, lupus and rheumatoid arthritis rare in populations where no grain products are consumed?
Loren Cordain: Some epidemiological evidence would indicate exactly that. Part of the problem in getting epidemiological evidence like this is that there are very few populations on this planet that don't eat cereal grains...Prior to acculturation, Eskimos and peoples of the far North were reported to have a low incidence of auto-immune diseases. With acculturation, the prevalence of auto-immune diseases are increasing in these populations and may approach Western levels.
Experimentally, we know that the expression of certain auto-immune diseases (e.g. insulin dependent diabetes mellitus IDDM) increases in animal models when they are fed high cereal grain diets. We believe that cereal grains may influence immune function by the ability of their lectins (specifically wheat germ agglutinin-WGA) to allow passage of undegraded dietary antigens and antigens derived from intestinal pathogens (viruses and bacteria) to peripheral tissue. Through a process called molecular mimicry, in which there are structural similarities between the body's own tissue and that of the dietary antigen and/or the intestinal pathogen antigen, the immune system loses the ability to distinguish self tissue from non-self tissue and mounts an immune attack upon the body's own tissue. Many of these structural similarities between cereal grain peptides and the body's own tissues seem to involve collagenous tissues.
Robert Crayhon: Which grains have protein sequences closest to human collagen tissue?
Loren Cordain: The literature suggests that the alcohol soluble portion of wheat contains peptide sequences that may mimic peptide sequences in the body. But it's a more complicated issue than that. It has to do with the genetics of the person with the auto-immune disease as well.
Robert Crayhon: The upshot of all this is that it couldn't hurt if you've got an auto-immune disease to try a grain-free diet.
Loren Cordain: Well, it's more than grain-free. We found again from a Paleolithic perspective that humans didn't drink a lot of dairy, nor did they consume legumes or yeast-containing foods. Dairy, legumes, and yeast contain peptides with amino acid sequence that are homologous to amino acid sequences in a variety of human tissues as well.
Robert Crayhon: What about other foods such as fowl, fish, and fruits and vegetables? Are these foods that are relatively free of these similar proteins?
Loren Cordain: Generally speaking, most people don't have trouble with land based flesh foods. Some people have trouble with shellfish or seafood from an immunological perspective. Elimination diets tend not to use shellfish or fish, as some people have trouble with these.
Robert Crayhon: But as you've said, the grains, the dairy products, the legumes, and yeast are the much more likely suspects. Any closing comments on the immune problems caused by the agricultural revolution before we close our discussion?
Loren Cordain: I think we need to have clinical trails obviously eliminating these kinds of foods: cereal grains, dairy products, legumes, and yeast. This would be difficult for people who have been weaned on a Western diet, but humans throughout most of the course of our stay on this planet did not eat those foods or rarely ate those foods. These proteins are alien to our immune system. We would hope that clinical trails involving elimination of these suspect peptides will be done in the future and hopefully may be of benefit to people with auto-immune problems.
Robert Crayhon: Dr. Cordain, thank you for spending time with us today and sharing these groundbreaking ideas with us. Your work embodies Stravinsky's phrase that "revolution means going back all the way around to where you started from".
Loren Cordain: My pleasure, Robert."
Loren Cordain, PhD, can be contacted at:
Professor, Department of Exercise & Sports Science
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, Colorado 80523 USA
Interview reprinted by permission from Life Services
Love,
Polly
Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused.
Polly and Marsha
I guess it might be clear by now that a can not praise the grain free, dairy free, legume fee diet enough. Thanks for your post Poly. I will never tire reading more and more good about it.
I love this comment-
“Many of these structural similarities between cereal grain peptides and the body's own tissues seem to involve collagenous tissues.” Seems like the issue, doesn’t it?
As much as it is interesting to read Cordain and Michael and Mary Dan Eades and all the theory I can only say that the real proof is in how I/ we have made a recovery based on their ideas. I am looking forward to a larger group trial. On second thought maybe we have one right here.
Only one point that I would have to mildly contest
“This[diet] would be difficult for people who have been weaned on a Western diet”
In reality it was only as dificult as I made it. And as simple as I made it.
Thanks
Matthew
I guess it might be clear by now that a can not praise the grain free, dairy free, legume fee diet enough. Thanks for your post Poly. I will never tire reading more and more good about it.
I love this comment-
“Many of these structural similarities between cereal grain peptides and the body's own tissues seem to involve collagenous tissues.” Seems like the issue, doesn’t it?
As much as it is interesting to read Cordain and Michael and Mary Dan Eades and all the theory I can only say that the real proof is in how I/ we have made a recovery based on their ideas. I am looking forward to a larger group trial. On second thought maybe we have one right here.
Only one point that I would have to mildly contest
“This[diet] would be difficult for people who have been weaned on a Western diet”
In reality it was only as dificult as I made it. And as simple as I made it.
Thanks
Matthew
Polly,
Very interesting "stuff". I have no doubt that the theory is correct. After all, logically, it's only common sense, and it's completely intuitive, to boot.
The biggest obstacle I have to joining that test group is corn. Besides the fact that it's pleasurable to eat, the dang stuff is in everything. Growing up in Tejas, I find it very tough to cut corn out of my diet, (though I did cut it out for a year or two, while I was healing).
Many thanks for posting that insightful information.
Love,
Tex
Very interesting "stuff". I have no doubt that the theory is correct. After all, logically, it's only common sense, and it's completely intuitive, to boot.
The biggest obstacle I have to joining that test group is corn. Besides the fact that it's pleasurable to eat, the dang stuff is in everything. Growing up in Tejas, I find it very tough to cut corn out of my diet, (though I did cut it out for a year or two, while I was healing).
Many thanks for posting that insightful information.
Love,
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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artteacher
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POLLY, THANK YOU!
I can't believe how many of the key words we've been discussing were all combined and connected in the conversation. It makes me want to contact him and ask if he would like all my blood tests over the years to see the difference as they related to my diet at the time. Or to ask if it's too late to be a part of a study. On second thought, I think I was my own study group.
Thank you so much.
Love, Marsha
I can't believe how many of the key words we've been discussing were all combined and connected in the conversation. It makes me want to contact him and ask if he would like all my blood tests over the years to see the difference as they related to my diet at the time. Or to ask if it's too late to be a part of a study. On second thought, I think I was my own study group.
Thank you so much.
Love, Marsha