And here's some more:
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picren ... obtype=pdf
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picren ... obtype=pdf
So bile acids also protect you from bacterial over growth of the small intestine. The mechanisms invloved partly have to do with direct actions on the bacteria with fatty acids in the first part of the small intestine. Then in the ilium of the small intestine it can have an effect by switching on an inflammitory response via FXR thus turing on iNOS which kills the bacteria.
So if your bile duct is blocked or you don't absorb bile acid well you will not be able to kill off the bacteria as well.
Ok, now I've got to move on down to the colon to see the effects of malabsorption.
Given that iNOS is part of MC and that the malabsorption occurs just above where the largest infiltration of lymphocytes is located this seems like a pretty good candidtate. In fact this reaction in the ilium would look very similar to the reaction that we see in MC in the colon.
Bile Acid Malabsorption?
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
Hi Joanna,
Your URL in the link you listed to the research report had a minor problem, so I "doctored " it a bit, to make it connect to the correct site. If the site it connects to now is not the correct one, please let me know, and I'll put it back the way you had it, and keep my fumble fingers off it in the future.
Love,
Tex
Your URL in the link you listed to the research report had a minor problem, so I "doctored " it a bit, to make it connect to the correct site. If the site it connects to now is not the correct one, please let me know, and I'll put it back the way you had it, and keep my fumble fingers off it in the future.
Love,
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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artteacher
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I second the proposal to get MORMS a lab kit, and then a job as research assistant to Dr. Fine.
Love, Marsha
Love, Marsha
Does sound like a good idea. LOL
Well, here's some more regarding MC/CC/LC and Bile Acid. Both are older though.
Enteric neurones modulate the colonic permeability response to luminal bile acids in rat colon in vivo
http://gut.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/53/3/362
Role of bile acids and bile acid binding agents in patients with collagenous colitis
http://gut.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/46/2/170
So has anyone here tried a bile acid binder like cholestyramine?
Thanks,
Mike
Well, here's some more regarding MC/CC/LC and Bile Acid. Both are older though.
Enteric neurones modulate the colonic permeability response to luminal bile acids in rat colon in vivo
http://gut.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/53/3/362
Role of bile acids and bile acid binding agents in patients with collagenous colitis
http://gut.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/46/2/170
So has anyone here tried a bile acid binder like cholestyramine?
Thanks,
Mike
Hi Mike,
I tried it right out of the hospital...before MC dx and before diet changes and entocort and all. I mixed it with applesauce and took it twice a day with meals. It didn't make me sick at all but did nothing for the diarrhea at that time. May try again sometime if all else fails. Grannyh tried it and it made her sick as I recall.
Love,
Cristi
I tried it right out of the hospital...before MC dx and before diet changes and entocort and all. I mixed it with applesauce and took it twice a day with meals. It didn't make me sick at all but did nothing for the diarrhea at that time. May try again sometime if all else fails. Grannyh tried it and it made her sick as I recall.
Love,
Cristi
I'm starting to wonder more and more if MC isn't just a symptom of something else with multiple causes. And each person only gets better with certain remedies based upon the amount of inflammation/damage or cause.
For some Vitamin D might help, for others bile acid binders, for others just getting rid of a food trigger, for others it might take powerful glucocorticoids or some combination of the above.
For me as of late (last week or so) I've been having the long, not well formed/loose, small diameter stools. I'm guessing due to either inflammation or some sort of dumping syndrom. Before that I was just fine.
Could be some of the things I was taking for my cold symptoms, could be the new Calcium/Magnesium/Vitamin C I'm taking (powdered form instead of my pill form) or who knows what else.
For now I'm going to try adding some psylum husk fiber to bind up bile acid (if there is any), stop taking the cold medicine and new calcium and see what happens. If I get better I'll add back the new calcium again as perhaps it's the magnesium or Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) that's not sitting well with me.
Mike
For some Vitamin D might help, for others bile acid binders, for others just getting rid of a food trigger, for others it might take powerful glucocorticoids or some combination of the above.
For me as of late (last week or so) I've been having the long, not well formed/loose, small diameter stools. I'm guessing due to either inflammation or some sort of dumping syndrom. Before that I was just fine.
Could be some of the things I was taking for my cold symptoms, could be the new Calcium/Magnesium/Vitamin C I'm taking (powdered form instead of my pill form) or who knows what else.
For now I'm going to try adding some psylum husk fiber to bind up bile acid (if there is any), stop taking the cold medicine and new calcium and see what happens. If I get better I'll add back the new calcium again as perhaps it's the magnesium or Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) that's not sitting well with me.
Mike
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artteacher
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Hi Mike,
I tried cholestyromine (the orange powder). It caused explosive incontinence. Boy was that the opposite of what I was hoping would happen. But I believe the orange flavoring is a highly sulfited substance, and I have a problem with sulfites.
If you're interested in taking calcium to experiment with bile acid binding, I'd suggest Caltrate 600+. There are tons of people who say that it's the only one that works. None of them know why, and I don't either, but I have tried a citrate form, and other Caltrate formulas, but the only one that has the effect I'm looking for is the one in the purple box.
My other suggestion is to make those cookies of mine, and see what happens.
You said you were not the typical MCer. I don't remember how your case presented, sorry, but I'm not either. I never had the really dramatic, constant watery D. Mine was more like every morning, 2-8 trips to the toilet, lots of burning, inflammation, hemmeroids, floating beige stools, greasy BMs, incontinence anywhere from 1-7 times a week if I couldn't get to a bathroom fast enough, nighttime BM's that disrupted sleep. I guess that covers it. Is that anyting similar to your symptoms? I also had lupus, hypothyroidism with antibodies to my thyroid, anemia, severe reactions to dairy, and later I realized to legumes, grain (esp rice), and sulfur compounds. I took plaquenol, and prednisone, and neither helped at all. Neither did Asacol, or motility inhibiting drugs. The only things that have helped (other than food elimination) are Caltrate, Pepto Bismol, and the egg/sugar cookies.
Didn't mean to write a book. Talk to you soon, Marsha
I tried cholestyromine (the orange powder). It caused explosive incontinence. Boy was that the opposite of what I was hoping would happen. But I believe the orange flavoring is a highly sulfited substance, and I have a problem with sulfites.
If you're interested in taking calcium to experiment with bile acid binding, I'd suggest Caltrate 600+. There are tons of people who say that it's the only one that works. None of them know why, and I don't either, but I have tried a citrate form, and other Caltrate formulas, but the only one that has the effect I'm looking for is the one in the purple box.
My other suggestion is to make those cookies of mine, and see what happens.
You said you were not the typical MCer. I don't remember how your case presented, sorry, but I'm not either. I never had the really dramatic, constant watery D. Mine was more like every morning, 2-8 trips to the toilet, lots of burning, inflammation, hemmeroids, floating beige stools, greasy BMs, incontinence anywhere from 1-7 times a week if I couldn't get to a bathroom fast enough, nighttime BM's that disrupted sleep. I guess that covers it. Is that anyting similar to your symptoms? I also had lupus, hypothyroidism with antibodies to my thyroid, anemia, severe reactions to dairy, and later I realized to legumes, grain (esp rice), and sulfur compounds. I took plaquenol, and prednisone, and neither helped at all. Neither did Asacol, or motility inhibiting drugs. The only things that have helped (other than food elimination) are Caltrate, Pepto Bismol, and the egg/sugar cookies.
Didn't mean to write a book. Talk to you soon, Marsha
I'll look into the Caltrate 600+, thanks!
As far as my typical. It used to be very painful D, but not daily, like say a couple times a week at the most. Since cutting Gluten, Dairy, Fructose it's been mostly normal.
But every once in a while I get a BM that's more abnormal for me, longer, formed but loser stool, easy to pass, and I feel a bit achy. The abnormal BMs can go on for hours or sometimes it's like it's all at once. Sometimes this is even after a normal BM. Most of the time it's in the morning, but some times I get a second BM at some strange time of the day.
For me avoiding the triggers seems to help for the most part. If I start to get like this with tha abnormal BMs I end up taking immodium, 1 dose. But then this will constipate me for a couple of days at least.
I tried asacol at one time, but it didn't help. That's about the most I've taken. I'm sure I could have tried something a bit more if I wanted, but I don't unless it gets worse I suppose.
I might have to try those cookies, though sugar usually does me in anymore. :( I can only really get a way with some fruit and dextrose/glucose.
Mike
As far as my typical. It used to be very painful D, but not daily, like say a couple times a week at the most. Since cutting Gluten, Dairy, Fructose it's been mostly normal.
But every once in a while I get a BM that's more abnormal for me, longer, formed but loser stool, easy to pass, and I feel a bit achy. The abnormal BMs can go on for hours or sometimes it's like it's all at once. Sometimes this is even after a normal BM. Most of the time it's in the morning, but some times I get a second BM at some strange time of the day.
For me avoiding the triggers seems to help for the most part. If I start to get like this with tha abnormal BMs I end up taking immodium, 1 dose. But then this will constipate me for a couple of days at least.
I tried asacol at one time, but it didn't help. That's about the most I've taken. I'm sure I could have tried something a bit more if I wanted, but I don't unless it gets worse I suppose.
I might have to try those cookies, though sugar usually does me in anymore. :( I can only really get a way with some fruit and dextrose/glucose.
Mike
Hey Marsha,
Which Caltrate do you take? I see 5 versions up here:
http://www.caltrate.com/products/index.asp
I'm guessing this one:
http://www.caltrate.com/products/caltrate600dplus.asp
Thanks,
Mike
Which Caltrate do you take? I see 5 versions up here:
http://www.caltrate.com/products/index.asp
I'm guessing this one:
http://www.caltrate.com/products/caltrate600dplus.asp
Thanks,
Mike
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artteacher
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Hi Mike,
The purple box, but not chewable. The chewable ones have a sweeteners that give me D: maltodextrin for instance. I think the chewables might even have sorbitol, which would be bad. By the way, most sugars aggrevate my symptoms also, as do most sugar substitutes (like Splenda and Equal). That's why the eggwhite cookies are so puzzling.
Now that I hear a description of your problems, I'm not sure Caltrate is for you. Most of the people who take Caltrate 600+ have chronic D, many of them "dumping syndrome" due to gallbladder surgery. Caltrate is thought to absorb bile, and stop diarrhea, but that's not really your problem. It may just constipate you. (For that matter, it shouldn't really help me, if I follow that logic, so never mind, I guess) If you try it, the way to do it is to take one half tablet as the first bite of breakfast, and again as the first bite of dinner. It has to combine with that first bite of food at the meal. It sounds funny, but it won't be as effective if you eat half your dinner, take a pill, and finish dinner. Or if you take it after dinner. If you experience no changes after taking it this way for a couple days, increase it to one tablet before breakfast and dinner. Because my transit time is 30 hours, if I start taking Caltrate Friday morning, my last uncomfortable bathroom visit will be Saturday at breakfast time, and whenever the next BM is, it will be more normal. (meaning not acid, larger diameter, sinkers, not beige) I'm so sorry.
Note to Wayne: We need a "cringing" emoticon. Or a "paper bag over head" emoticon.
Talk to you soon,
Marsha
P.S. Here's a webpage: http://www.irritable-bowel-syndrome.ws/ ... e-plus.htm
The purple box, but not chewable. The chewable ones have a sweeteners that give me D: maltodextrin for instance. I think the chewables might even have sorbitol, which would be bad. By the way, most sugars aggrevate my symptoms also, as do most sugar substitutes (like Splenda and Equal). That's why the eggwhite cookies are so puzzling.
Now that I hear a description of your problems, I'm not sure Caltrate is for you. Most of the people who take Caltrate 600+ have chronic D, many of them "dumping syndrome" due to gallbladder surgery. Caltrate is thought to absorb bile, and stop diarrhea, but that's not really your problem. It may just constipate you. (For that matter, it shouldn't really help me, if I follow that logic, so never mind, I guess) If you try it, the way to do it is to take one half tablet as the first bite of breakfast, and again as the first bite of dinner. It has to combine with that first bite of food at the meal. It sounds funny, but it won't be as effective if you eat half your dinner, take a pill, and finish dinner. Or if you take it after dinner. If you experience no changes after taking it this way for a couple days, increase it to one tablet before breakfast and dinner. Because my transit time is 30 hours, if I start taking Caltrate Friday morning, my last uncomfortable bathroom visit will be Saturday at breakfast time, and whenever the next BM is, it will be more normal. (meaning not acid, larger diameter, sinkers, not beige) I'm so sorry.
Note to Wayne: We need a "cringing" emoticon. Or a "paper bag over head" emoticon.
Talk to you soon,
Marsha
P.S. Here's a webpage: http://www.irritable-bowel-syndrome.ws/ ... e-plus.htm
Re: .
I found them here at the store. What's interesting is that they are very similar to the Calcium from Costco I was taking before (not the powder version I recently got). The major difference being that the Calcim is Carbonate in the Caltrate, but the Calcium in the Costco version is Citrate and the costco version has more Magnesium and also contains B6. So I'm going to give them a try, but will probably just go back to the Costco one since I'm thinking it helped and would be cheaper I'm guessing.artteacher wrote:Hi Mike,
The purple box, but not chewable. The chewable ones have a sweeteners that give me D: maltodextrin for instance. I think the chewables might even have sorbitol, which would be bad. By the way, most sugars aggrevate my symptoms also, as do most sugar substitutes (like Splenda and Equal). That's why the eggwhite cookies are so puzzling.
Now that I hear a description of your problems, I'm not sure Caltrate is for you. Most of the people who take Caltrate 600+ have chronic D, many of them "dumping syndrome" due to gallbladder surgery. Caltrate is thought to absorb bile, and stop diarrhea, but that's not really your problem. It may just constipate you. (For that matter, it shouldn't really help me, if I follow that logic, so never mind, I guess) If you try it, the way to do it is to take one half tablet as the first bite of breakfast, and again as the first bite of dinner. It has to combine with that first bite of food at the meal. It sounds funny, but it won't be as effective if you eat half your dinner, take a pill, and finish dinner. Or if you take it after dinner. If you experience no changes after taking it this way for a couple days, increase it to one tablet before breakfast and dinner. Because my transit time is 30 hours, if I start taking Caltrate Friday morning, my last uncomfortable bathroom visit will be Saturday at breakfast time, and whenever the next BM is, it will be more normal. (meaning not acid, larger diameter, sinkers, not beige) I'm so sorry.
Note to Wayne: We need a "cringing" emoticon. Or a "paper bag over head" emoticon.
Talk to you soon,
Marsha
P.S. Here's a webpage: http://www.irritable-bowel-syndrome.ws/ ... e-plus.htm
So I found a couple more of my older costco Calcium and used them yesterday along with the fiber, and cut the Calcium powder. I took 4 psyllium capsules, 1 about every 3 hours between meals. Well, I wasn't totally constipated, but was close. Felt a bit bloated, and was more gassy than normal. I'm going to try the same again today to see how I feel.
Wish I had more of the costco calcium instead as I'm worried this Caltrate might constipate me.
Mike
I'm wondering if I really even need the fiber supplement. First off I'm looking at what I ate yesterday and I see 35 grams of fiber in my food alone. 20-35 grams is recommended. Today alone up to and including lunch I'm at 28 grams. So I'm guessing get enough fiber.
So why take the psyllium? I'm thinking of totally cutting it out today.
What's odd to me is that I only consume 2 g of this additional fiber and I get more gas from that than the 35 grams of fiber from my food. Why would this little amount of fiber make me bloated and gassy? It's not a terrible amount of gas, but enough to make me uncomfortable.
Thanks,
Mike
So why take the psyllium? I'm thinking of totally cutting it out today.
What's odd to me is that I only consume 2 g of this additional fiber and I get more gas from that than the 35 grams of fiber from my food. Why would this little amount of fiber make me bloated and gassy? It's not a terrible amount of gas, but enough to make me uncomfortable.
Thanks,
Mike