Lab Rat Update

[cludwig]

Hi Friends,

I've been taking slippery elm and pancreatic enzymes for the past two weeks and it seems to be helping me quite a bit with the stomach pain I have been having. ....much less bloating, burning,and churning. Still having D....but less quantity.

Since I just can't get enough of pain...I started taking an anti fungal medication..been on it a week with no changes with the D....but boy do I have body aches. I am experimenting as none of my stool tests indicate I have a yeast infection. They say if you have a problem the die off of yeast will give you flu like symptoms...which I sure have. I am supposed to stay on this for 4 weeks.

Then to make things really interesting I had my DHEA measured using two different methods...one blood and one urine. The blood came back very high and the urine very low. I am not sure what to make of this. The DHEA is there but for some reason is not being excreted. Just goofy. Any ideas? The more info I get the more confusing it is.

Love,
Cristi

[mle_ii]

Then to make things really interesting I had my DHEA measured using two different methods...one blood and one urine. The blood came back very high and the urine very low. I am not sure what to make of this. The DHEA is there but for some reason is not being excreted. Just goofy. Any ideas? The more info I get the more confusing it is.

Love,
Cristi

There are saliva tests for DHEA, so you could take the best 2 out of 3. :)

Also, what time of day did you get DHEA checked? Not sure that it matters, but it seems to for a lot of others. Testosterone, cortisol and I think estrogen all have a daily cycle so I'm guessing DHEA would as well. Melatonin cycles during the day as well, being highest at night.

Oh, and perhaps the cycle of your um... female... err... stuff might change the level.

Oh, and did they check for DHEAs or just plain DHEA in both tests. This makes a difference as well.

[mle_ii]

Oh, and by the way I should get my stool testing back soon and I'm going to get a Cortisol and DHEA levels tested soon. Think I might add on Testosterone and Melatonin as well.

[cludwig]

Hi Mike,

The lab for the blood just says DHEA and it was taken at 10am. The urine was collected for 48 hours (it was an ACTH stimulation test) and I haven't seen the lab report yet...the Doc just says it was peculiar with the cortisol high and the DHEA and testosterone low. The blood DHEA was 17.7 with the range being 1.9 to 7.6. My vit D came back a lot better ..well in the middle of the range even though I had been taking D2 for a long time. Since I had a hysterectomy i take hormone replacement and I was on day 9. Who knows? I don't know if one is inaccurate or if it's something indicative of a problem when one is high and one low. Will have to look into more.

I remember you saying somewhere that MC could just be a side effect or symptom of something else. In my particular case I have to believe that is true. I think I am helping myself by staying the course with the diet and entocort....but I have to figure out what is muddying my recovery. I guess that leaves me being a lab rat until I do.

Good luck with all of your tests.
Love,
Cristi

[harvest_table]

Cristi,

Thanks so much for hanging in there and doing what you are doing and keeping us posted. Folks with chronic imflamation have very low levels of DHEA- if you haven't yet, check out the post from Tex in the diet board. But like you said, you are a paradox.

Then to make things really interesting I had my DHEA measured using two different methods...one blood and one urine. The blood came back very high and the urine very low. I am not sure what to make of this. The DHEA is there but for some reason is not being excreted. Just goofy. Any ideas? The more info I get the more confusing it is.

Maybe, your body needs this DHEA and is not letting it pass out of your system. From what I have read, our natural DHEA levels are highest in the mornings upon wakening and you had this test at 10am.

Keep the faith!

Love,
Joanna

[cludwig]

Hi Joanna,

Thanks. I did catch Tex's post about the DHEA and if it's true that all people with chronic inflammation have low levels of it and the blood test is accurate ...then it all goes back to if I really do have an inflammation problem at all. Thanks for your support.

Love,
Cristi

[mle_ii]

Got back my stool/digestive lab test results. I'll write more tomorrow after I go over them with my Dr. I must say the results were not what I expected.

[cludwig]

Hi Mike,

I know what you mean. Sometimes it seems the more I know the more I don't. I look forward to hearing your results.

Love,
Cristi

[mle_ii]

Ok, here are my results in a nut shell, I'll post up the specifics when I get more time. The things found were:
1) Inflammation (well duh) as shown by increased Calprotectin levels. Though I expected that it would by only high within range, it is out of range high, but not extreemly high.
2) They couldn't find any Bifidobacterium. Not a good thing from my reading thus far. This is huge, the bifido should outnumber any of the other bacteria tested for and I was high in E Coli (the good ones) and Lactobacillus (also good). I have read that IBS folks and older folks have fewer amounts of this bacteria which can lead to disease. I cannot for the life of me figure out why they found NONE though, this is scary.
3) The ratio of LCA/DCA was going in the wrong direction. I should have more DCA than LCA, but I'm the opposite. Don't know why, but some articles have show that this can lead to colrectal cancer. Not good.
4) Some of the other bacteria that are supposed to be at lower levels are higher than they should be, but not to the pathogen levels. Most likely due to the low/no amounts of bifido.

So other than that everything else was good. I'm digesting my foods well, and a lot of other good positive things that I don't need to worry about being a problem.

Again, as I said I'll fill in the details when I get more time. That and I'll let you know what I find out.

Anyone else with similar issues? Specfically the low Bifidobacterium.

Thanks,
Mike

[cludwig]

Hi Mike,

That's exactly what my stool test said.....no bifidobacterium at all. I had the good e coli and lactobacillus as well. Interesting. Do you take probiotics?

Love,
Cristi

[mle_ii]

I just found your post as I decided to do a search here to see if anyone else found this and I found your post. :) Did your Dr say why yours were nonexistant? My Dr is going to contact the lab to see if they might have ideas as to why. I find it strange that the others are abundant, but this one is not there at all.

Yep, I take probiotics, but not consistantly. And who knows if it has enough bacteria to do anything or the right kind. I'm looking into studies right now to find out. Seems that the most abundant in our bodies of the bifido are the following:
B. catenulatum
B. longum
B. adolescentis

The only one I seem to find in most supplements is longum.

Not sure what is in mine or if it's any good anymore. My Dr recomended Garden of Life. I'm going to try their Primal Defense ULTRA starting next week to see what that does for me. It has the following:
Saccharomyces boulardii
*L plantarum
Bacillus subtilis
L paracasei
*B longum
*B breve
B lactis
L acidophilus
L casei
L rhamnosus
*L salivarius

The ones I marked with a * are the ones that studies have shown (that I've read thus far) are bacteria present in our bodies (at least in healthy people.

Mike

[cludwig]

Hi Mike,

I tried a probiotic at the very beginning of my illness and had lots of uncomfortable bloating....but it was for lactobacillis. A few months later I tried a bifidobacillois suppository...unfortunately at the same time as the acid pills which made me totally sick.....so I abandoned both. Every Dr that I see says I have to find one that works for me. The latest plan is to stay on the anti yeast medication for another 3 weeks and in the last week to introduce a probiotic. My stool test said I didn't have a problem with yeast but the Dr said it's not a reliable indicator of a problem. I had many body aches the first 5 days but the last couple I have been fine. I will be ready to give the probiotics another go as I am getting stronger by the day....I think because the pancreatic enzymes are working and I am finally getting some nutrition from my food.

Love,
Cristi

[Matthew]

Mike

Please notice that Primal Defense ULTRA is not guaranteed to be 100% gluten free.

The Primal Defense ULTRA does not appear to contain Iron but the earlier version did and taken at the recommended level would put men way over the amount of Iron that they should take.

Matthew

[tex]

Mike,

This is just a WAG, but I would assume that the profile of your gut bacteria is going to reflect the effects of any probiotics you might be taking, or have taken in the past. After all, the point of taking them is to encourage population enhancement of certain types of bacteria, and if your probiotics do nothing to enhance the proliferation of bifidobacterium, then they may well be overrun and suppressed by the varieties that the probiotics favor. I could be all wet, but I would assume that scenario is a possibility.

Tex

[Polly]

Interesting that Mike and Cristi both had none of the same "good" bacteria. Who knows? Maybe MC does that to all of us i.e. wipes out that particular species? Since most of us have not had the test, we wouldn't know. Mike, you might want to email Dr. Fine and ask him about it.
Maybe you are onto something. I agree with Wayne - if it was wiped out, it wouldn't reappear necessarily unless introduced by the probiotic. Of course, I'm not sure how it gets there from the environment in the first place. Maybe it returns over a long period of time. I'm rambling here, but there are just so many interesting unknowns about MC (unfortunately for us)..

Love,

Polly