Lab Rat Update

[tex]

Polly,

I had the same thought, that the absence of that bacterium might possibly be an unrecognized marker of MC, because as you pointed out, most of us are never tested for things such as that.

Love,
Tex

[mle_ii]

Mike,

This is just a WAG, but I would assume that the profile of your gut bacteria is going to reflect the effects of any probiotics you might be taking, or have taken in the past. After all, the point of taking them is to encourage population enhancement of certain types of bacteria, and if your probiotics do nothing to enhance the proliferation of bifidobacterium, then they may well be overrun and suppressed by the varieties that the probiotics favor. I could be all wet, but I would assume that scenario is a possibility.

Tex

Yep, but the problem is that my probiotic did indeed have bifido. Though there have been studies showing that some probiotics didn't have what they said they had in them. :( That and perhaps it didn't have enough to take hold, or I need to take more at a time or perhaps my body is fighting this particular strain off...

Here's the one that I'm taking:
http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/store/en/b ... id=ET-1810

Says it contains "LACTOBACILLUS ACIDOPHILUS AND BIFIDOBACTERIUM LONGUM".

Mike

[mle_ii]

Mike

Please notice that Primal Defense ULTRA is not guaranteed to be 100% gluten free.

The Primal Defense ULTRA does not appear to contain Iron but the earlier version did and taken at the recommended level would put men way over the amount of Iron that they should take.

Matthew

Ugg!!! Well, thanks for the info Matthew. Any ones that you would recommend?

[mle_ii]

Interesting that Mike and Cristi both had none of the same "good" bacteria. Who knows? Maybe MC does that to all of us i.e. wipes out that particular species? Since most of us have not had the test, we wouldn't know. Mike, you might want to email Dr. Fine and ask him about it.
Maybe you are onto something. I agree with Wayne - if it was wiped out, it wouldn't reappear necessarily unless introduced by the probiotic. Of course, I'm not sure how it gets there from the environment in the first place. Maybe it returns over a long period of time. I'm rambling here, but there are just so many interesting unknowns about MC (unfortunately for us)..

Love,

Polly

Indeed. I've been wondering this for a while and even more so now. Perhaps this bacteria can never take hold again in us for some reason, perhaps it's fighting this bacteria off, or there's some other bacteria that we have not been able to find or grow yet that's a direct competitor that we've somehow picked up. Or just like Celiac we have an HLA that recognizes this non pathogen as a pathogen and it gets destroyed.

As far as how these bacteria get into us. Well it's via our mothers, at least the ones that we are born with and reside as long as we don't take antibiotics. Via probiotics that are built to survive the digestive system. I'm sure that there are other conditions where these bacteria, good and bad, can make their way through the gauntlet of digestive enzymes, digestive acid, bile acid, lack of oxygen, etc. But mostly those conditions are either the ones when we are born or the ones where we are in a "diseased" state. Oh, and one more pathway would be to go in through the out door. ;) LOL

In fact I ran across a rather odd IBD study where they took the stool from healthy donor, they process the stool and then use it as an enema. I can't remember the sucess rate, but it was pretty high.

So without some sort of introduction I'm guessing the bifido aren't coming back on their own.

Mike

[cludwig]

Hi Everyone,

I only took a couple of probiotic pills before I stopped....so I don't think in my case that my probiotic use caused the imbalance in my colon.

I was thinking back to what Dr Gallum had said about the yeast and bacteria in the gut and he implied that it was because of the problem with yeast that the bacteria was so out of wack. So His line of thinking was to first kill off the yeast and then to introduce the bacteria...probiotics. So I have another week and a half to go before I try the probiotic. The first time I introduced the bifido suppository I did get ill...but I was doing the acid pills at the same time so that could be the reason. Or it could be what mike said...our bodies see it as the enemy and have fought it off and that's why we don't have any.

I really think it's interesting that Dr Gallum thought the bacteria problem was a symptom of a yeast problem. Well, I already have started this experiment. So, I will let you know how it progresses.


One theory I have to explain why I am having such a slow recovery is that with out the pancreatic enzymes...even though I have eliminated all sugar and grains, I was actively feeding all the bad stuff in my gut with all the undigested food.

Love,
Cristi

[mle_ii]

Another not on the topic of bifidobacteria, from several studies I've read thus far, it appears that bifdo should very much outnumber even the Lactobacillus, and it's not by a small number. The number I've run across is 1000 bifidobacteria for every Lactobacillus. So with us having none, that's a huge discrepancy.

Several studies also mention that the bifidobacterium is much more able to limit a TH1 response. Well, there's another coincedence isn't it.

[cludwig]

Very interesting Mike. I remember the dr. who gave me the stool test remarking that he'd never really seen this type of result before. We may be on to something.

Love,
Cristi

[mle_ii]

Here's another item, tying in bile acid. It appears that bifidobacteria are also responsible for converting bile acid to a form that can be transported by the body. If it's not absorbed then it can act on the colon in a bad way. Might this be one of the reasons that Calcium helps me out? :) My guess is yes.

This might also explain the strange cholesterol levels in folks with MC. If less of bile acid as absorbed by the body then the body has to produce more cholesterol.

[cludwig]

Hi Mike,

I haven't had my cholesterol checked since my surgery. Before the surgery it was low...always really good. Next blood draw I will have to have it checked. If it is high I am sure my Dr will try to blame it on the palio diet as he thinks I am nuts for following it.

I'm impressed you found a link between the bifidobacteria and the bile acid. That's huge. So even if we would have the quantity of bile acid measured it would probably test normal. It could be that we don't produce too much but that it's just not being used properly. This could also explain why Dr. Pardi (he's the GI I'll be seeing at the Mayo) in his paper about MC has said that even people who don't test positive for bile acid problems seem to do better on cholestyramine powder.

Love,
Cristi

[mle_ii]

I'm guessing that the one that will blame the paleo diet would be the "classical" type dr. Tell him that dietary cholesterol doesn't have a whole lot to do with blood cholesterol and that he should go back to school. ;) Just kidding on the telling him part, but not the other.

As I just demonstrated and have mentioned elsewhere there are quite a few things that would have an effect on blood cholesterol levels. A lot of which might be out of our control.

Some off the top of my head that would effect it:
Bacterial Overgrowth or the wrong types of bacteria or not enough good bacteria in the colon
Low fiber intake
Changes in motility
Vitamin D
Animal Protein/B12 intake
Calcium intake

And you know what would have the greatest benefit to pretty much all of those things effecting it? The paleo type diet. I'm not kidding. For example the diet would have
more fiber, so that effects the bacteria and fiber items,
no wheat, well that effects motility,
Vitamin D, we all know that paleo folks (back before houses) spent more time in the sun,
Animal protein again paleo,
calcium intake well paleo folks would spend time in the sun, not consume dairy and exercise

I'm sure there's more, but I gotta go eat some paleo type food so that my blood cholesterol can shoot through the roof. ;)

Mike