The Jay Robb HIGH PROTEIN JAYBAR

[Beth]

Hey everybody - I was reading this set of posts because I did a search to find out more about xylitol. I thought I'd add my two cents in here even though this whole thing was posted waaaay back. I just wanted to let you know that ingesting too much protein is actually one of the causes of bone loss. I've been ghostwriting a book for a cardiologist in Miami on exercise, and one of the chapters is on nutrition. While I was writing this chapter, I learned that in order for the body to break down protein molecules, it needs calcium to do it. We only need a maximum of 30 g of protein/day - and if we eat power/protein bars, we often end up exceeding that ration by quite a bit. Anyway, the more protein you ingest, the more calcium the body needs to digest it, and the more your body starts pulling calcium from wherever it can find it - namely, your bones. And there go all of our efforts to keep our bones strong and healthy. I don't know if this has already come up and if I'm just getting on a soap box here on top of being redundant, but I just thought I'd share the little that I do know about nutrition.

Happy eating,
Beth

[tex]

Hi Beth,

We've discussed osteoporosis and it's causes at length before, but we've never considered it as a result of excessive protein ingestion.

I have no idea where you or the doctor you're working with get your reference information, but daily protein recommendations is one area where there are many varied opinions. For example, according to USDA Dietary Reference Intakes tables, found here, (and supposedly recently updated):

http://healthymeals.nal.usda.gov/nal_di ... _default=0

women need 46 grams of protein per day, and men need 56, except that pregnant or lactating women need 71 grams per day.

Some sources recommend 1 gram per kilogram of body weight, (which, of course would result in a significantly higher figure), and some even recommend one gram or more per pound of body weight, which would obviously result in a much, much higher figure.

While it's true that the body uses calcium to buffer the acids in the bloodstream, that result from the digestion of protein, I suspect that it would take very high protein ingestion levels to cause a significant osteoporosis problem.

Osteoporosis is as much a function of lifestyle, as it is diet. Basically, the further that people remove themselves from a Paleo activity lifestyle, and a Paleo diet, the greater the incidence of osteoporosis. Genetics also plays a part.

Paleo people ate a lot of protein, (to allow their active lifestyle), but I don't recall ever reading any studies which indicated that they had any problems with osteoporosis. Problems of that type didn't begin until the dawning of the neolithic age, when protein intake began to generally decline, due to the agricultural revolution.

It may well be true that someone who pursues a sedate lifestyle could possibly have an increased osteoporosis risk, due to excessive protein intake, but the primary problem in that case would not be the protein intake per se, it would be the protein intake relative to their activity level. Inactive individuals simply don't need as much protein. One's diet has to match one's activity level, in order to serve it's intended purpose. That's true of virtually all dietary intakes, for each and every one of us. At least that's the way I see it.

Tex

P S I agree with you though, protein bars are not the way to get your protein.

[harvest_table]

Hi Beth,

I'd be interested in reading any links you might have regarding protein, calcium levels and boneloss. I eat a high protein diet- no power bars though.

Also, interested in your thought's about xylitol.

Thanks,
Joanna

[Beth]

Hi Wayne,

You're right about the revised guidelines on protein levels - sorry about that. I was writing from memory last night, and I think 30 grams came from some fatigued place in my brain. Here's a link to the government's guidelines for nutrition (not that everything they say is gawd's word, but at least it gives us a sense of what they're saying is healthy) : http://www.health.gov/dietaryguidelines ... GA2005.pdf

Here are a few links that explain the connection between too much protein intake and osteoporosis: http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/abstract/128/6/1051
http://www.internethealthlibrary.com/He ... estyle.htm

But then, to be fair, here are some links that say the opposite: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... t=Abstract
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/78/3/584S

And this is a link that objectively looks at both sides: http://www.betterbones.com/research/art ... health.PDF

It's very interesting reading! I think, as Wayne said, high protein consumption is only problematic if that's all you eat. In other words, if you're not also consuming calcium-rich foods and other healthy nutrients, then it makes sense that there would be some effect on the bones.

Thanks for your thoughtful post, Wayne. Keeps me honest and thinking!

Best,
Beth

[Beth]

P.S. My anti-protein stance came from a need to bash the protein supplement industry for this book I'm writing. It's all a bunch of crock and basically comes down to money, money, money. I wasn't thinking last night of all you paleos who eat a lot of protein - sorry, didn't mean to cause unnecessary alarm.

[tex]

Morning, Beth,

Hey, you're an excellent researcher, and it's obvious that you're going to be a real asset to this board, in the way of new insights and observations.

I've got to get to work, so I'll have to read most of those links in your post later in the day, but I have to mention that from what I've already read, the example about Eskimos is a real eye-opener.

I fully agree with you about the protein supplement industry - I think it has really spun out of control.

Thanks for bringing this issue to our attention. We'll all learn a lot, before we get through discussing it.

All my best,
Wayne

[harvest_table]

P.S. My anti-protein stance came from a need to bash the protein supplement industry for this book I'm writing. It's all a bunch of crock and basically comes down to money, money, money. I wasn't thinking last night of all you paleos who eat a lot of protein - sorry, didn't mean to cause unnecessary alarm.

Not to worry, we Paleo's tend to develop thick skin as time goes on. Thanks Beth, for opening up this conversation and providing those interesting links.

http://www.beyondveg.com/cordain-l/prot ... s-1a.shtml


It's great to have a nutritional writer on board!

Thanks,
Joanna

[tex]

Beth,

I really like the last reference you cited. It is indeed an excellent discussion of the issue, and it mentions a recommendation about cereal grains, that is dear to the hearts of most paleo fans:

The average American labors under chronic low-grade metabolic acidosis, which will be worsened by increased protein intake unless compensated for in one way or another. Compensation could involve increasing the intake of base-forming foodstuffs, or supplementing with alkalizing mineral compounds, or reducing intake of non-protein acid-forming foods such as grain products.

The emphasis, (red text), is mine, of course. I have no doubt that the exclusion of grain, which automatically compensates, and thereby reduces the acid bias of the diet, is one of the primary reasons why the paleo diet works so well for most people.

Thanks for all the helpful information,
Wayne

[Beth]

No problem! Glad it was helpful. If only I could follow my own research leads! I have to say, I just can't give up grains yet. I'm following a very strict GF, dairy- and soy-free diet, but I love my GF breads and porridge. Tonight, though I ending up actually cooking (this is an extremely rare event in my household) because a friend was visiting. I made a delicious soup with veggies and chicken and chicken stock - and I didn't even need bouillion to flavor it. I did sneak some sweet potatoes in there, but I was actually satisfied after eating it. Unusual for me since I usually like mostly carbs and a little protein and fat. Here are the ingredients:
olive oil, two onions, one sweet potato, one chicken breast (cut up), baby zucchini, herbs, chicken stock, and salt.

How Paleo of a soup did I make? Everything but the sweet potato?

[harvest_table]

Beth,

Your soup smells perfectly paleolish... and I certainly would have begged for a second bowel if I was your dinner guest. Your going to have to learn to have fun in the kitchen eventually!

That link Tex hightlighted hit home for me. I'm doing very well with this WOE- grain free.

I wonder sometimes about the motivation of folks following a Paleo diet that don't have the food sensitivities that many of us have.

Love,
Joanna

[tex]

Beth,

That sounds like an excellent paleo soup. You're doing great!

I get the impression that you suspect that sweet potatoes are not a paleo food, but they are indeed paleo. Irish spuds, of course, are not. Sweet potatoes, yams, manioc, (tapioca), and similar root foods are perfectly paleo.

Incidentally, for future reference, be aware that bouillon cubes are included in most lists of items that contain gluten. There may be some brands that don't contain gluten, but be sure to read the label carefully, before you use them.

Don't feel like the Lone Ranger about the grains. I still occasionally eat rice, and can't seem to break my old habit of eating popcorn, now that I can tolerate corn again. For several years I couldn't tolerate it.

Tex

[Beth]

Nice to know I'm on the right track, everyone. And thanks, Wayne for the tips on bouillon cubes. I had remembered reading somewhere on the board here to stay away from them, so I was pleasantly surprised that I didn't need them!

I'll aim for the Paleo, everyone - but I'm not sure I can make it there all the way. . . yet. Little by little . . .

Best,
Beth