To Paleo or Not to Paleo?? A Real dilemna for Me.

MaggieRedwings · Post by **MaggieRedwings** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:12 am

Well I posted early this a.m. and I don't see the post, so I will try again.

Polly and I have talked about Paleo in the past and I fully respect the diet but for me, being a Buddist, it is a real dilemna. I have within the last 8 weeks put small amount of fish and eggs in my diet since being soy intolerant I can no longer get protein in that fashion. It seems that my total acceptance of GF and my MIs has helped me but I still feel like I am doing more running to the loo than necessay and seem to be losing energy daily.

I am up for any advice that you can give me on ways to still respect the vegan aspects of my diet and be Paleo. Frank is definitely not been consulted on this yet but is fully supportive of whatever will make the effects of this disease lessen.

Post by **tex** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:58 am

Hi Maggie,

I responded to your other post, in the Personal Experiences With Diet forum. In all honesty, I don't believe that it's possible to do what you are asking, without changing the rules imposed by your religious beliefs, (as you have obviously already discovered).

I hope you can solve this dilemma.

Love,
Tex

Polly · Post by **Polly** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 7:03 am

Oh Mags!

It really IS a dilemma, isn't it? I am now pretty much paleo, but I wish I had different genes and could be a vegetarian still. In my heart I am one. I feel sad for all the turkeys on Thanksgiving, etc.

I really don't think there's any way you could modify the diet, since each meal is roughly 50% animal protein and 50% fruits/veggies. If you decide to try it, would it help if you bought only range-fed (humanely-raised/slaughtered) animals? Actually, that is what is recommended by the paleo diet.

Also, you might want to email Dr. Fine and see if he can provide you with some sample meal suggestions. I think he is mostly a vegetarian who has added a little fish for health reasons.

Or, if you decide to add animal protein, maybe you could just limit to the foods with the highest % protein. In Cordain's book, the Paleo Diet, he lists the % protein of animal foods. For example, skinless turkey breast is highest at 94% protein, then shrimp at 90%, followed by red snapper at 87%. Eggs, on the other hand, are only 34% protein and nuts 10%.

Fate has played a cruel joke on us........given us the heart of a vegetarian and the digestive tract of a meat-eater. Those &$%^$#&%^ genes!!!

I know you will figure out a way to get rid of that D once and for all.

Love,

Polly

Matthew · Post by **Matthew** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:22 pm

Maggie

Thanks for you answer to my PM. With your long standing convictions about not eating meat even after careful consideration on many levels then the Paleo diet is really out of the question since meat protein is so much part of the Paleo equation.

I hope that you and Frank will come up with an even better solution than the Paleo diet. I am looking forward to what you find. It might help us all.

Have you ever done any research into cultures that eat an exclusively vegetarian diet. Both past and present. Perhaps you might find some clues from what they eat that might be missing from the western concept of a vegetarian diet.

Just a thought.

Love to you both

Matthew

harvest_table · Post by **harvest_table** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 2:35 am

Hi Maggie,

I know you have alot going on in your mind now about your diet and wanting to regain your health. Since your post, I have researched about your diet restrictions and other faiths. It's very interesting, many things I did not know.

There is alot of information out there, but I narrowed down my thoughts and links to this comment which might be helpful.

Laurent Manrique, corporate executive chef of San Francisco's Aqua Development Corporation

As a practicing Buddhist who eats meat, I have been criticized. People say, "How can you pretend to practice the Buddhist philosophy and not be a vegetarian?" My response is to point out that the Dalai Lama sometimes eats meat. Does that mean he's doing something wrong? I believe the key is to think about whatever you put into your mouth—fish, meat, vegetables, junk food. That's following the Buddhist philosophy of being mindful of every step of everything you do, from eating to walking to sleeping.

MaggieRedwings · Post by **MaggieRedwings** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:56 am

Morning Polly & Matt,

Polly - Fate definitely has played a cruel joke but I am going to get the last laugh somehow. I have added salmon, scallops & tuna and know that the protein source is pretty good with these. Did have mussels over the weekend and they were actually very good. Eggs do not seem to be high on my list since they really disagree with me when eaten "straight" instead of used as an additive to a recipe. Will keep you posted.

Matt - thanks for your response and will look into older cultures but have found from prior research that cultures who were vegetarian past and present have a tendancy to rely on grains and nuts both which I seem not to be able to eat.

Got very adventurous yesterday and had a salad for lunch - first time in many years and it seemed to do OK. No protein there but it always was my favorite food.

Love, Maggie

kate_ce1995 · Post by **kate_ce1995** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:04 am

Do shellfish have eyes? And, paleos correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't I read last night that clams are a good protien source and on the safer side when you consider heavy metals and such? I really only like clams steamed, and most other preps usually have batter on them.

Katy

MaggieRedwings · Post by **MaggieRedwings** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:28 am

Yep, shellfish have eyes.

Maggie

Polly · Post by **Polly** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:59 am

Mornin' Mags!

You know, you should be able to have a very nutritious diet with the inclusion of the seafood alone. In fact, it may be even more healthy than the paleo diet - at least based upon the studies of the "Mediteranean" diet, which includes large amounts of fish, fruits, and veggies.

I was thinking that fate has played the ultimate cruel joke on us by also making us intolerant to the vegetarian mainstays..... not just grains, but soy and nightshade veggies and cheese. Hmmmpf!

Please keep us posted on your progress. I think you may be well on your way to finding that perfect diet! And good news about the salad. I know how much you love them. I like to throw all kinds of things in salads, like nuts, seeds, tuna or salmon, avocado, dried fruits, esp. raisins.

As Matthew says, you may just discover the best diet for us MIs. Instead of the hunter-gatherer diet, we can call your diet the "fisher-gatherer diet". And you can write the book (and include your wonderful recipes) and make millions! :dollarsign: :dollarsign: :dollarsign:

Love,

Polly

MaggieRedwings · Post by **MaggieRedwings** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:39 am

Mornig Polly,

I like your idea of a salad and if I forgo the regular salad fixins - lettuce, raw onion, cucs, tomato - and use straight tuna with maybe raisins, sunflower seeds, etc. with a touch of oil, I bet it would be great. Maybe I will try that today at lunch.

Am definitely going the route of the Fisher Gatherer diet but must include my potatoes in it. I still feel that they should fit into the diet. Anything to feel better at this point would be a relief.

Millions off a book would be great but I am not counting on it.

Love, Maggie

harvest_table · Post by **harvest_table** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:27 pm

Hi Maggie,

Been thinking about your quandry over your spirtual beliefs, diet and ongoing health problems. Your in a tough place but glad to hear your exploring other options and making some changes. Even suttle ones might help.

I found this quote which is pretty cool.

Laurent Manrique, corporate executive chef of San Francisco's Aqua Development Corporation

As a practicing Buddhist who eats meat, I have been criticized. People say, "How can you pretend to practice the Buddhist philosophy and not be a vegetarian?" My response is to point out that the Dalai Lama sometimes eats meat. Does that mean he's doing something wrong? I believe the key is to think about whatever you put into your mouth—fish, meat, vegetables, junk food. That's following the Buddhist philosophy of being mindful of every step of everything you do, from eating to walking to sleeping.

harvest_table · Post by **harvest_table** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:44 pm

Hi all,

Been thinking about you Maggie, and your quandry with spirtual beliefs, diet and ongoing health problems. Your in a tough place but glad to hear your exploring other options and making some changes. Even suttle ones help.

This quote is inspiring, I believe I may have read it here before.

Laurent Manrique, corporate executive chef of San Francisco's Aqua Development Corporation

As a practicing Buddhist who eats meat, I have been criticized. People say, "How can you pretend to practice the Buddhist philosophy and not be a vegetarian?" My response is to point out that the Dalai Lama sometimes eats meat. Does that mean he's doing something wrong? I believe the key is to think about whatever you put into your mouth—fish, meat, vegetables, junk food. That's following the Buddhist philosophy of being mindful of every step of everything you do, from eating to walking to sleeping.

http://www.foodandwine.com/articles/wha ... eally-mean

That link also has alot of other interesting comments about foods and eating. Problems with genetically modified foods are something we all need to be aware of as well.

Love,
Joana

Post by **tex** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 2:44 pm

Joanna,

Thanks for that link. There are indeed some very interesting quotes on that site.

The comment about Whole Foods is rather interesting, also. How do they ship organic vegetables 5,000 miles without preservatives, and still have a good, fresh product when it's sold in their stores?

The comments in the Lard is good for you? paragraph probably seem like heresy to many, but I believe that's right on target.

There are a lot of interesting observations on that site. If the Dalai Lama can eat meat, then I don't see any reason why Maggie can't eat anything that she finds personally acceptable, so long as she is mindful of what she is doing.

Love,
Tex

MaggieRedwings · Post by **MaggieRedwings** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:07 pm

Joana,

What an excellent quote and I thank you so much for it. I am going to check that link and it is going to be kind of an uphill quest for me but at this point I am determined to see this through.

Lunch was different today and it was really great - aside from running different directions when people needed me. Going to find a quiet place and not be disturbed when I eat - it is good for the soul. Lunch was 3 oz. of tuna, 4 slices of beets, sunflower seed, a few walnuts, raisins and dried apricots. Very, very good. Now to conquer breakfast - the tricky one.

Love, Maggie

Polly · Post by **Polly** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:19 pm

Ooooooh, Maggie,

A most excellent lunch! Truly paleo and high in omega 3 fats too! Also alkaline foods - the raisins especially. Did you use any dressing? My mouth is watering.

Joanna's info is interesting, isn't it? I have a similar story but hesitated to mention it because I did not want you in any way to think that I was trying to alter your religious beliefs. As you know, I have the greatest respect for Buddhism. Several years ago a friend and I went to visit a nearby dharma house to hear a visiting lama speak. At the reception afterwards, the monks in residence were teasing him because it was apparently a well-known fact that he loved steak and always ordered it when he came to America. He said the same thing.....about the Dalai Lama eating meat and the importance of mindfulness.

I got the impression that the monks were totally non-judgemental and actually very accepting of meat-eaters. One monk said that, although he was a vegetarian, he just wasn't as compulsive as the monks who actually tried not to ever step on a bug in the course of a day. He felt that that was something that he just couldn't do and that his colleagues respected his decision and thought no less of him. I guess one of the most attractive features to me about Buddhism is the incredible TOLERANCE they exhibit.

Love,

Polly