UGH. My boss and I are seeing things so differently on how to communicate things to clients. He wants us to come up with the letters and memos the way he would. He has been down on me for a while about it, but can't offer concrete suggestions on how to fix it. He is going to send this latest thing to our writing consultant and see if its him or me.
I write well. I've always been told that.
I just feel like no matter what I do it doesn't work. The harder I work, the more frustrated I get.
Worse yet he has me meeting with someone next week about verbal communication, and she says we'll work on things like confidence, but every time he does this, my confidence goes down another notch. I'm afraid to tell clients anything because I know I'll have to eat crow later and change what I've told them.
This causes me a lot of stress because I can't afford my house if I don't have the salary I have now (or pretty close) and jobs aren't a dime a dozen paying that in this area. Plus if I quit, it would be for a different career. This would be the writing on the wall that I wasn't cut out for this business.
Plus its rainy and warm here...I'm supposed to play at the christmas tree lighting in town tonight. I really don't feel very christmasy.
Katy
Communication
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
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kate_ce1995
- Rockhopper Penguin
- Posts: 1321
- Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 5:53 pm
- Location: Vermont
Awwwww, Katy,
Do others have difficulty with this boss or does he seem to be gunning for just you? IOW, is there anyone to commiserate with......or to go with to his superior? Sounds so frustrating.
I'll bet anything that your current health problems are very much related to this stress at work. This boss sounds unreasonable to me - it's like he's trying to change you into someone else of his own devising. It's NUTZ, IMHO.
Hang in there and unload on us any time.
Love,
Polly
Do others have difficulty with this boss or does he seem to be gunning for just you? IOW, is there anyone to commiserate with......or to go with to his superior? Sounds so frustrating.
I'll bet anything that your current health problems are very much related to this stress at work. This boss sounds unreasonable to me - it's like he's trying to change you into someone else of his own devising. It's NUTZ, IMHO.
Hang in there and unload on us any time.
Love,
Polly
Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused.
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MaggieRedwings
- King Penguin
- Posts: 3865
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 3:16 am
- Location: SE Pennsylvania
HI Katy,
Shades of the corporate bosses. Why can't they just leave well enough alone. Always have to have little clones of themselves when most of us work just fine and the clients are happy with what we do. Right now I have a boss that is great - a little eccentric - but that makes me laugh not groan.
Hang in there.
Love, Maggie
Shades of the corporate bosses. Why can't they just leave well enough alone. Always have to have little clones of themselves when most of us work just fine and the clients are happy with what we do. Right now I have a boss that is great - a little eccentric - but that makes me laugh not groan.
Hang in there.
Love, Maggie
Maggie Scarpone
___________________
Resident Birder - I live to bird and enjoy life!
___________________
Resident Birder - I live to bird and enjoy life!
Hi Katy,
Okay, since this seems to be a recurring issue, even after moving to a different company, and since I also have a degree in engineering, I think I have a little insight into the problem.
There are two possibilities that come to mind. First, if he's trying to change you to be more like him, he may be grooming you to replace him, or he may be grooming you for some other position in the company. The other possibility, is that you are a victim of gender bias. If this is the case, it may even be subconscious, of unintentional, but that doesn't make it any less of a problem.
When I was in engineering school, female engineers were few and far between, and prejudices, (and outright resentment at the thought of females trying to horn in on "their" turf), among the males, was almost universal. I would hope that things would have improved immensely by now, but, in all honesty, I would be surprised if such deeply entrenched behavior would totally disappear in the time span of one generation.
What I am saying, is that I suspect that many male engineers may, (again, possibly on a subconscious level), hold females to higher standards of performance, simply because of that "built-in" bias. I may be all wet here, but I think I understand the mind-set that's involved with this attitude.
Engineering is by it's very nature very stressful. The work is almost always done with a time schedule that's too brief, funding that's inadequate, and a constant risk of making a mistake that might contribute to the loss of zillions of dollars, or even lives.
If you've come this far, you're obviously qualified to do the work - it's the personal relationships that seem to be causing the problems. I would look at it this way: The primary problem is probably not due to your personal skills. Instead, it may be mostly a gender bias thing, and you may have to play the necessary corporate games, in order to "satisfy" your boss's narrow minded thinking. Also, it never hurts to hone corporate relationship skills, whenever you can. That's how the corporate ladder is climbed.
Hey, you're an engineer. You can do anything you put your mind to. Never forget that.
Tex
Okay, since this seems to be a recurring issue, even after moving to a different company, and since I also have a degree in engineering, I think I have a little insight into the problem.
There are two possibilities that come to mind. First, if he's trying to change you to be more like him, he may be grooming you to replace him, or he may be grooming you for some other position in the company. The other possibility, is that you are a victim of gender bias. If this is the case, it may even be subconscious, of unintentional, but that doesn't make it any less of a problem.
When I was in engineering school, female engineers were few and far between, and prejudices, (and outright resentment at the thought of females trying to horn in on "their" turf), among the males, was almost universal. I would hope that things would have improved immensely by now, but, in all honesty, I would be surprised if such deeply entrenched behavior would totally disappear in the time span of one generation.
What I am saying, is that I suspect that many male engineers may, (again, possibly on a subconscious level), hold females to higher standards of performance, simply because of that "built-in" bias. I may be all wet here, but I think I understand the mind-set that's involved with this attitude.
Engineering is by it's very nature very stressful. The work is almost always done with a time schedule that's too brief, funding that's inadequate, and a constant risk of making a mistake that might contribute to the loss of zillions of dollars, or even lives.
If you've come this far, you're obviously qualified to do the work - it's the personal relationships that seem to be causing the problems. I would look at it this way: The primary problem is probably not due to your personal skills. Instead, it may be mostly a gender bias thing, and you may have to play the necessary corporate games, in order to "satisfy" your boss's narrow minded thinking. Also, it never hurts to hone corporate relationship skills, whenever you can. That's how the corporate ladder is climbed.
Hey, you're an engineer. You can do anything you put your mind to. Never forget that.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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kate_ce1995
- Rockhopper Penguin
- Posts: 1321
- Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 5:53 pm
- Location: Vermont
Or I'm only good at the technical aspects and getting the message out is not my forte.
I have always wondered about gender bias. I was even asked at my last place of employment if I thought it was an issue. Now I'm not one to want special treatment because I'm in the minority (I avoided SWE like the plague in college) but I do wonder what impact it has. Heck one of our jr. guys, who works part time for us had been away most of the fall and what he managed to say to me when he came back this week was "no sandals?"
I really think guys don't know how to interact with women. At my last job, I remember the male project managers shooting the shi* with the male engineers. But with the women, it wasn't "what did you do this weekend" it was "here's the work/task I need". Of course my current boss doesn't talk non-shop with anyone here that I can tell.
And our ranks are not growing very fast. Did you know a recent ASCE (American Society of Civil Engineers) study showed that the #1 reason more women aren't going into engineering is because their high school mentors (i.e., teachers and guidance counselors) are not aware of engineering as a profession. After all, other math/science related fields have seen huge growth in female participation over the years. And yet civil engineering is one of, if not the oldest professions out there.
I don't know what the answer is, but it is driving me nuts and I'm starting to believe there is a problem with me. Even Geoff leans that direction saying I don't take critism well and that I'm too stubborn.
I am who I am.
Katy
I have always wondered about gender bias. I was even asked at my last place of employment if I thought it was an issue. Now I'm not one to want special treatment because I'm in the minority (I avoided SWE like the plague in college) but I do wonder what impact it has. Heck one of our jr. guys, who works part time for us had been away most of the fall and what he managed to say to me when he came back this week was "no sandals?"
I really think guys don't know how to interact with women. At my last job, I remember the male project managers shooting the shi* with the male engineers. But with the women, it wasn't "what did you do this weekend" it was "here's the work/task I need". Of course my current boss doesn't talk non-shop with anyone here that I can tell.
And our ranks are not growing very fast. Did you know a recent ASCE (American Society of Civil Engineers) study showed that the #1 reason more women aren't going into engineering is because their high school mentors (i.e., teachers and guidance counselors) are not aware of engineering as a profession. After all, other math/science related fields have seen huge growth in female participation over the years. And yet civil engineering is one of, if not the oldest professions out there.
I don't know what the answer is, but it is driving me nuts and I'm starting to believe there is a problem with me. Even Geoff leans that direction saying I don't take critism well and that I'm too stubborn.
I am who I am.
Katy
Katy,
I love this line:
And, in all fairness, men are kind of afraid to let down their guard and treat women the same way they treat their male coworkers, out of fear they might end up being the trigger for a sexual discrimination suit, if someone misinterprets something they say, and/or chooses to take advantage of the situation, somewhere down the line. After all, (men being men), some of the things they frequently discuss with other men, are illegal, under the anti-discrimination laws.
I wasn't aware of that reason why the numbers of female engineering students remains low, but that certainly makes sense. When high school "advisers" look at a profession and see few female participants, many of them probably incorrectly assume that few opportunities exist, so it's a self-perpetuating problem.
On the other hand, if he's right, that would certainly explain a confidence issue. I can guarantee you that a lot of us in positions similar to yours don't take criticism nearly as well as we should, (me included, but I keep working on it). Instead, we view it as a personal attack, and we naturally tend to try to dig in and stand our ground, and unfortunately, the very experience of having to go through this, repeatedly, tends to chip away at our confidence.
While it's true that you are who you are, you are constantly evolving, (just look at yourself compared with 5, 10, or 15 years ago). We continually learn new things, and we are constantly in a process of change, (evolution). The verbal communication meeting next week may not be such a bad thing. You shouldn't view it as a personal problem, but rather as an opportunity to insure that you're headed in the right direction with that aspect of your career. In graduate school parlance, "It's no big deal, it's just another hoop to jump through".
Tex
I love this line:
Hahahahaha. Now there's a mouthful. If ever there was a universal truth, that's it. By default, men tend to think of women as sexual objects, or social acquaintances, (they can't help it, it's part of the basic male persona, which evolved over hundreds of thousands of years), so they have to make a conscious effort, in order to visualize women in any other role. In the workplace, of course, the default mind-set is verboten, (at least, since the passage of sexual discrimination laws), so now they're not sure how to act. I really don't think that most men are quite ready to come to grips with the possibility that their female counterparts are truly their equals, (as far as job performance is concerned), at least in the professions, (medicine, engineering, and law). I'm sure there are exceptional examples, but I really don't believe that most men in that situation are quite ready to concede, (at least to themselves), that women can do their jobs just as well as they themselves can, and therein lies the basic problem.I really think guys don't know how to interact with women.
And, in all fairness, men are kind of afraid to let down their guard and treat women the same way they treat their male coworkers, out of fear they might end up being the trigger for a sexual discrimination suit, if someone misinterprets something they say, and/or chooses to take advantage of the situation, somewhere down the line. After all, (men being men), some of the things they frequently discuss with other men, are illegal, under the anti-discrimination laws.
I wasn't aware of that reason why the numbers of female engineering students remains low, but that certainly makes sense. When high school "advisers" look at a profession and see few female participants, many of them probably incorrectly assume that few opportunities exist, so it's a self-perpetuating problem.
Hmmmmm. Well, he might be right, but I'll bet that a lot of men try to convince their wives/girlfriends of that. LOL. (It's a logical thing to say, if you're not winning as many arguments as you would like).Even Geoff leans that direction saying I don't take critism well and that I'm too stubborn.
On the other hand, if he's right, that would certainly explain a confidence issue. I can guarantee you that a lot of us in positions similar to yours don't take criticism nearly as well as we should, (me included, but I keep working on it). Instead, we view it as a personal attack, and we naturally tend to try to dig in and stand our ground, and unfortunately, the very experience of having to go through this, repeatedly, tends to chip away at our confidence.
While it's true that you are who you are, you are constantly evolving, (just look at yourself compared with 5, 10, or 15 years ago). We continually learn new things, and we are constantly in a process of change, (evolution). The verbal communication meeting next week may not be such a bad thing. You shouldn't view it as a personal problem, but rather as an opportunity to insure that you're headed in the right direction with that aspect of your career. In graduate school parlance, "It's no big deal, it's just another hoop to jump through".
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Hi Katy,
Sorry you're going through this crap at work. It's hard enough to get the job done without having to cope with the stuff you're dealing with too.
I agree with a lot of what Wayne says - sigh - but I also think that your boss is on an ego, micro-managing kick and since he is the boss - he will undoubtedly win. It isn't easy to deal with a boss like that and I really don't have much to offer in terms of advice.
I hope that you can find a way to handle it or the situation changes. The stress is going to kill you one way or another though. It seems to be detrimental to your health and your overall life. Hang in there - I'm routing for you!
Big hugs!
Mars
Sorry you're going through this crap at work. It's hard enough to get the job done without having to cope with the stuff you're dealing with too.
I agree with a lot of what Wayne says - sigh - but I also think that your boss is on an ego, micro-managing kick and since he is the boss - he will undoubtedly win. It isn't easy to deal with a boss like that and I really don't have much to offer in terms of advice.
I hope that you can find a way to handle it or the situation changes. The stress is going to kill you one way or another though. It seems to be detrimental to your health and your overall life. Hang in there - I'm routing for you!
Big hugs!
Mars
"Let us rise up and be thankful, for if we didn't learn a lot today, at least we learned a little, and if we didn't learn a little, at least we didn't get sick, and if we got sick, at least we didn't die; so, let us all be thankful." -- Buddha
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barbaranoela
- Emperor Penguin
- Posts: 5394
- Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 6:11 pm
- Location: New York
Katy-----
Try to hang in------I wish I could say something world shattering(well I could but it wouldnt be lady like)---
Yes, U are who U are---and thats what makes U the individual person that U are--
Begeezzzzzzzzzzzzzs---does everyone take criticism with a HO-HO--I dont think so----
My thoughts are with U---dont be STOMPED on~~~~~
luve Barbara
Try to hang in------I wish I could say something world shattering(well I could but it wouldnt be lady like)---
Yes, U are who U are---and thats what makes U the individual person that U are--
Begeezzzzzzzzzzzzzs---does everyone take criticism with a HO-HO--I dont think so----
My thoughts are with U---dont be STOMPED on~~~~~
luve Barbara
the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness and self-control
Kate,
Wish I had some pearls of wisdom for you but I'm afraid I don't. I think Wayne did a pretty good job. Certainly better than anything I could say.
I do hope things will get better but I doubt it will be because your boss changes........I believe you'll have to learn to deal with him in a way that doesn't set you on edge all the time. If you like the job and the pay, perhaps you can find a way to do that. We all like recognition and even approval for what we do and it's hard to have confidence when that that is withheld and especially when we are constantly criticised. I know it's extremely difficult, but I am hoping you will learn to let what he says, etc. roll off and just keep doing your job as best you can and somehow find satisfaction in knowing within yourself that you did a good job. If he finds he can't "get" to you he may give up (underline may) or it may bring things to a head and you'll move on....which may not turn out to be a bad thing (although scary).
Anyway, I'm wishing you the best Katy.
Love, Shirley
Wish I had some pearls of wisdom for you but I'm afraid I don't. I think Wayne did a pretty good job. Certainly better than anything I could say.
I do hope things will get better but I doubt it will be because your boss changes........I believe you'll have to learn to deal with him in a way that doesn't set you on edge all the time. If you like the job and the pay, perhaps you can find a way to do that. We all like recognition and even approval for what we do and it's hard to have confidence when that that is withheld and especially when we are constantly criticised. I know it's extremely difficult, but I am hoping you will learn to let what he says, etc. roll off and just keep doing your job as best you can and somehow find satisfaction in knowing within yourself that you did a good job. If he finds he can't "get" to you he may give up (underline may) or it may bring things to a head and you'll move on....which may not turn out to be a bad thing (although scary).
Anyway, I'm wishing you the best Katy.
Love, Shirley
When the eagles are silent, the parrots begin to jabber"
-- Winston Churchill
-- Winston Churchill