Wayne and others with experience/knowledge to share:
As you know I run long distance races every now and then; my training partners use GU (an energy gel) both in training (for long runs) and during long distance races such as 1/2M and Marathons. I have not tried or tested GU on my own body because I know it contains maltodextrin which is a derivative of corn (one of my intolerances). However, I have recently thought that I could/should give it a try meaning testing it on my own body which actually means eating it to see if/how I react. I am scared of the thoughts of what might happen if I react poorly; but there is a chance I can tolerate it, at least theoretically - I have never been tested by any lab such as for example Enterolab for corn intolerance; could I possibly be tolerant of corn or more specifically of maltodextrin?
Definition of maltodextrin:
Maltodextrin is a moderately sweet polysaccharide used as a food additive, unrelated to barley malt. It is produced from corn starch and is usually found as a creamy white hygroscopic powder. Maltodextrin is easily digestible, being absorbed as rapidly as glucose. The CAS number of maltodextrin is 9050-36-6.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maltodextrin
In this link there is an ingredient list for PLAIN GU; do you see anything else in the list that I can't tolerate according to my intolerances? I see citric acid, which I usually avoid (corn derivative) but then again - can I possibly tolerate this?
http://www.gusports.com/html/gu_justplain.htm
It seems risky to even think the thought of eating this stuff but the fact is that I need a source of energy to take while running a marathon and I hate to depend on a friend to stand on the side line to hand me my home made drinks; besides, it is very tiring to run with a bottle in your hand for so long. That's the reason I entertain this idea.
I would appreciate any advice. Thank you all!
Love,
Karen
P.S. During a race like a Marathon I would probably need to consume several of these GU packages. You take the GU along with water, which is handed out every 2-3 miles along the course.
Maltodextrin - risky business?
Moderators: Rosie, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
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moremuscle
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Maltodextrin - risky business?
Inspired by the paleolithic diet and lifestyle -
living w/o gluten, dairy, soy, corn, and yeast.
living w/o gluten, dairy, soy, corn, and yeast.
Hi Karen,
Are you aware that I can now tolerate corn, with absolutely no adverse effects, (as far as I can tell)? I have no idea what the odds are that you can also tolerate it now, but maybe it's time to find out, if maltodextrin is so important to running endurance.
As far as I'm aware, Enterolab does not have a test for corn. The only tests available are the histamine type tests, and I don't believe that those tests provide any useful information, as far as food intolerances go.
One good thing about the non-gluten intolerances, is that their effects on the body are relatively short-lived, compared with gluten, so in the event that you might happen to react to it, at least there shouldn't be any risk of long-term damage.
I wish you the best of luck, if you decide to try it. Also, please let us know the results, if you try it.
Love,
Wayne
P S The downside, of course, is that maltodextrin is about as non-paleo as you can get. Since it's for a good cause, though, I guess we can look the other way, while you're drinking it. LOL.
Are you aware that I can now tolerate corn, with absolutely no adverse effects, (as far as I can tell)? I have no idea what the odds are that you can also tolerate it now, but maybe it's time to find out, if maltodextrin is so important to running endurance.
As far as I'm aware, Enterolab does not have a test for corn. The only tests available are the histamine type tests, and I don't believe that those tests provide any useful information, as far as food intolerances go.
One good thing about the non-gluten intolerances, is that their effects on the body are relatively short-lived, compared with gluten, so in the event that you might happen to react to it, at least there shouldn't be any risk of long-term damage.
I wish you the best of luck, if you decide to try it. Also, please let us know the results, if you try it.
Love,
Wayne
P S The downside, of course, is that maltodextrin is about as non-paleo as you can get. Since it's for a good cause, though, I guess we can look the other way, while you're drinking it. LOL.
Karen
I bicycle about 30 to 40 miles every weekend when the weather is good. Couple of times a week I ride laps at Washington Park, around 15 miles each day. As fall and cooler temperatures came on this year I upped my weekend miles closer to fifty and even had a day over sixty miles. I am glad I did in that right now their is a good eighteen inches of snow in the backyard and a solid six inches of ice on the streets that precludes bicycling anywhere. Last year at this time I was watering the lawn and still getting some good miles .
I have seen those energy gels marketed in the bike shop where I buy tires, tubes and patches and kind of ignored them has a lot of hype. And of course having no way to know if I would react.
I push hard and keep rough track of my times but in the end it is more about being their and having done it. Not the kind of competitive running that you do so I don’t know how much good any advice I give will help you .
I carry dried fruit that I have reconstituted with water the night before when I do longer rides. It’s pretty much a continuous feed when I get over 40 miles but seems to work pretty well in that I have not Bonked in a long time. Something that I avoid since it takes me so long to recover if I do. I suppose not very user friendly for a runner.
Well.....don’t know if this helps at all but thought it might be food for thought.
I, as always, will be interested in your report if you try GU.
Happy running
Matthew
I bicycle about 30 to 40 miles every weekend when the weather is good. Couple of times a week I ride laps at Washington Park, around 15 miles each day. As fall and cooler temperatures came on this year I upped my weekend miles closer to fifty and even had a day over sixty miles. I am glad I did in that right now their is a good eighteen inches of snow in the backyard and a solid six inches of ice on the streets that precludes bicycling anywhere. Last year at this time I was watering the lawn and still getting some good miles .
I have seen those energy gels marketed in the bike shop where I buy tires, tubes and patches and kind of ignored them has a lot of hype. And of course having no way to know if I would react.
I push hard and keep rough track of my times but in the end it is more about being their and having done it. Not the kind of competitive running that you do so I don’t know how much good any advice I give will help you .
I carry dried fruit that I have reconstituted with water the night before when I do longer rides. It’s pretty much a continuous feed when I get over 40 miles but seems to work pretty well in that I have not Bonked in a long time. Something that I avoid since it takes me so long to recover if I do. I suppose not very user friendly for a runner.
Well.....don’t know if this helps at all but thought it might be food for thought.
I, as always, will be interested in your report if you try GU.
Happy running
Matthew
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artteacher
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Hi Karen,
I react like crazy to maltodextrin. I don't know if it's corn, or that it feeds the bacteria in the gut. I read that maltodextrin is used as a filler for artificial sweeteners because the body cannot absorb it and be used as calories, although the "bad" bacteria in the intestines can, and feed on it. For normal people it's not much of a problem. My experiment was to eat saccharine tablets (which have no fillers), and compare to pink packets of sweet 'n low (which has maltodextrin as a filler). I react to the pink packets (just a little, because there's not all that much maltodextrin if you don't overdo), but not at all to the tablet, no matter how many I eat.
The only way to find out is to experiment. Just not right before a marathon!
Love, Marsha
I react like crazy to maltodextrin. I don't know if it's corn, or that it feeds the bacteria in the gut. I read that maltodextrin is used as a filler for artificial sweeteners because the body cannot absorb it and be used as calories, although the "bad" bacteria in the intestines can, and feed on it. For normal people it's not much of a problem. My experiment was to eat saccharine tablets (which have no fillers), and compare to pink packets of sweet 'n low (which has maltodextrin as a filler). I react to the pink packets (just a little, because there's not all that much maltodextrin if you don't overdo), but not at all to the tablet, no matter how many I eat.
The only way to find out is to experiment. Just not right before a marathon!
Love, Marsha
Hi Karen!
A dilemma for sure. I am also corn-intolerant, so I have been avoiding maltrodextrin and citric acid for some years now. I guess the only way to know for sure is a trial - done at home on a weekend when you do not have activities planned (is there such a thing?) - LOL! Of course, you may not react much initially since your corn antibodies will be virtually non-existent after all of this time. It may be that a bigger reaction will occur after a few times of eating the gel, as you again develop antibodies. Good luck if you decide to try it. I'll be interested in the results.
When is the next marathon?
Love,
Polly
A dilemma for sure. I am also corn-intolerant, so I have been avoiding maltrodextrin and citric acid for some years now. I guess the only way to know for sure is a trial - done at home on a weekend when you do not have activities planned (is there such a thing?) - LOL! Of course, you may not react much initially since your corn antibodies will be virtually non-existent after all of this time. It may be that a bigger reaction will occur after a few times of eating the gel, as you again develop antibodies. Good luck if you decide to try it. I'll be interested in the results.
When is the next marathon?
Love,
Polly
Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused.
Re: .
FWIW the info about maltodextrin is definitly not true. The body cannot absorb it directly this is true, but your body does produce enzymes to break down disaccharides (sp) one of which is maltodextrin. Though those with Celiac and those with inflamitory bowel diseases, and I'm guessing those with other intestinal or malabsorption issues would either not be producing these enzymes or produce very little. So in that case it would not be absorbed by the body.artteacher wrote:Hi Karen,
I react like crazy to maltodextrin. I don't know if it's corn, or that it feeds the bacteria in the gut. I read that maltodextrin is used as a filler for artificial sweeteners because the body cannot absorb it and be used as calories, although the "bad" bacteria in the intestines can, and feed on it. For normal people it's not much of a problem. My experiment was to eat saccharine tablets (which have no fillers), and compare to pink packets of sweet 'n low (which has maltodextrin as a filler). I react to the pink packets (just a little, because there's not all that much maltodextrin if you don't overdo), but not at all to the tablet, no matter how many I eat.
The only way to find out is to experiment. Just not right before a marathon!
Love, Marsha
Oh and as far as maltodextrin being better than say dextrose/glucose which are directly absorbed. At least as far as bodybuilding, endurance training, atheletic performance. It's pure hype. Studies have shown that maltodextrin absorbs slower into the body thus allowing for a better more even blood sugar level, the problem is that the difference is so small that in the end it doesn't matter.
My guess is that if you have problems with Gu you either have problems with corn in general or have problems absorbing disaccarides due to the missing enzymes or finally there's something else in the Gu giving you problems.
So in the end this info doesn't really help you figure out what to take for energy. Matthew has some ideas. Another would be to put a bit of dextrose/glucose in your water that you bring with you. Perhaps if corn is an issue (though I'm guessing it's the protein rather than the sugars that's the problem) perhaps you can find a dextrose source that is not from corn. Might also add some potasium and sodium to it to help with electrolite balance as well. Oh and I would test this drink out before going on a run rather than finding out during a run that it's not ok.
Oh and if honey isn't a problem perhaps you can use that, though absorbing fructose can be an issue for some with GI issues as well.
HTH
Mike
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I'm so sorry! I didn't mean to pass on bad information. I guess I juist believed what I read without checking it out. Does anyone know why it is used as a filler and not counted as calories in equal and sweet n low packets? or is it just that the carb content is lower than sugar? And I guess I also didn't think it through: if it's used by athletes for energy, it must be absorbed as a sugar/carb/food.
Love, Marsha
Love, Marsha
Well, it's called a filler probably because it's cheap. But as far as calories it's the same as all other carbs. Maybe it was something other than maltodextrin.
Here's some info about sweet and low:
Here's some info about sweet and low:
In the United States, the ingredients of Sweet'N Low Brand granulated sugar substitute are nutritive dextrose, 3.6% saccharin (36 mg per packet), cream of tartar and calcium silicate (an anti-caking agent).
http://www.sweetnlow.com/faqs.htmlDextrose is a natural carbohydrate derived from corn. All sugar substitutes in powder form contain dextrose. Dextrose is used to dilute the very potent sweetener to make it measurable for consumers.
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kate_ce1995
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This is just a random thought about GU. Have you heard of Gu-be-gone? I ate Gu a couple times when I was mountain biking with a bunch of guys who could ride me into the ground. Gu is a very fast acting carb load and when your bodyis tired from all that exertion it uses it up very quickly. I always found that if we weren't close to the end of the ride and dinner, the crash was far worse than the fatigue prior to eating the Gu. You may be better off finding an alternative.
Katy
Katy
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I just looked at Equal - it's slightly different in that it contains dextrose and maltodextrose as the fillers.
Karen,
After all this discussion, what are you thinking about doing?
Love, Marsha
Karen,
After all this discussion, what are you thinking about doing?
Love, Marsha
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moremuscle
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I am sorry that I have been "away" -
I was literally away for a day (Atlanta) but I have no excuses for the rest of the days
I have read your posts - I still haven't tried GU. Like Polly said, it's never convenient to be sick - I have a hard time planning for a day or two of potentially being sick. As a matter of fact I am a little sick right now for reasons I don't know: I have watery eyes and lack appetite; when I do eat I get stomach cramps. I think it is something that is going around and I will get over it soon.
Matthew wrote:
"I carry dried fruit that I have reconstituted with water the night before when I do longer rides."
I would like to know how you reconsitute the fruit and which dried fruit it is.
Mike, I read with interest your info about maltodextrose not being significantly better than the other types of sugar in terms of how quickly it becomes available to your working muscles during exercise. I had the (false?) impression that it was/is superior for that particular purpose. In that case it isn't even necessary to perform an experiment on my body. I feel the maple syrup added to 2/3 water 1/3 orange juice has worked relatively well for me so far. I guess what I am really looking for is something that would enable me to run a marathon w/o depending on a friend to drive the course and hand out bottles to me.
Wayne, I wish I had the guts to jump into a corn trial to see if I react. I have entertained the idea of trying a product with citric acid to see if I (still) react to it. That would be a relatively benign trial, don't you thinK?
Thank you for your advice- I appreciate it.
Love,
Karen
I was literally away for a day (Atlanta) but I have no excuses for the rest of the days
I have read your posts - I still haven't tried GU. Like Polly said, it's never convenient to be sick - I have a hard time planning for a day or two of potentially being sick. As a matter of fact I am a little sick right now for reasons I don't know: I have watery eyes and lack appetite; when I do eat I get stomach cramps. I think it is something that is going around and I will get over it soon.
Matthew wrote:
"I carry dried fruit that I have reconstituted with water the night before when I do longer rides."
I would like to know how you reconsitute the fruit and which dried fruit it is.
Mike, I read with interest your info about maltodextrose not being significantly better than the other types of sugar in terms of how quickly it becomes available to your working muscles during exercise. I had the (false?) impression that it was/is superior for that particular purpose. In that case it isn't even necessary to perform an experiment on my body. I feel the maple syrup added to 2/3 water 1/3 orange juice has worked relatively well for me so far. I guess what I am really looking for is something that would enable me to run a marathon w/o depending on a friend to drive the course and hand out bottles to me.
Wayne, I wish I had the guts to jump into a corn trial to see if I react. I have entertained the idea of trying a product with citric acid to see if I (still) react to it. That would be a relatively benign trial, don't you thinK?
Thank you for your advice- I appreciate it.
Love,
Karen
Inspired by the paleolithic diet and lifestyle -
living w/o gluten, dairy, soy, corn, and yeast.
living w/o gluten, dairy, soy, corn, and yeast.
Hi Karen,
Yes, if you want to try a corn derivative, I suppose that citric acid would be as good a choice as any, and probably less likely to cause a significant reaction than something with whole corn in it.
I had some kind of stomach virus during the week before last. The flu-like symptoms, (aches and pains, nausea, etc.), only lasted for about 24 hours, but the next day I had D, and each day thereafter, for at least 3 or 4 days. Like you, my eyes were watery, and I didn't eat much of anything for a day. The strange thing about it was that the D only occurred once each day.
Do they hand out any Gatorade to the runners? You might be able to handle it, and thereby eliminate having to enlist the aid of a friend to hand you your custom formulated drinks. Really, corn is the only problem in most Gatorade formulations. If you are now able to handle corn, then you should be able to drink Gatorade.
The new labeling law requires manufacturers to use plain, common language on the presence of any dairy, wheat, or soy), and labels also have to indicate their inclusion in spices, flavorings, additives and colorings, (categories which had previously been exempt). This should eliminate getting blindsided by a "natural and artificial flavors" listing. Any regulated items that are in the "flavors", would have to be spelled out.
Of course, if you can handle corn, then you can also handle the GU. Being able to tolerate corn, opens a lot of doors, as you are well aware.
Love,
Tex
Yes, if you want to try a corn derivative, I suppose that citric acid would be as good a choice as any, and probably less likely to cause a significant reaction than something with whole corn in it.
I had some kind of stomach virus during the week before last. The flu-like symptoms, (aches and pains, nausea, etc.), only lasted for about 24 hours, but the next day I had D, and each day thereafter, for at least 3 or 4 days. Like you, my eyes were watery, and I didn't eat much of anything for a day. The strange thing about it was that the D only occurred once each day.
Do they hand out any Gatorade to the runners? You might be able to handle it, and thereby eliminate having to enlist the aid of a friend to hand you your custom formulated drinks. Really, corn is the only problem in most Gatorade formulations. If you are now able to handle corn, then you should be able to drink Gatorade.
The new labeling law requires manufacturers to use plain, common language on the presence of any dairy, wheat, or soy), and labels also have to indicate their inclusion in spices, flavorings, additives and colorings, (categories which had previously been exempt). This should eliminate getting blindsided by a "natural and artificial flavors" listing. Any regulated items that are in the "flavors", would have to be spelled out.
Of course, if you can handle corn, then you can also handle the GU. Being able to tolerate corn, opens a lot of doors, as you are well aware.
Love,
Tex
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moremuscle
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Wayne,
I know that the corn situation opens or as in my case closes many doors; it would make a big difference if I could/can tolerate it. Gatorade is always offered at the road races - I haven't had Gatorade since the day I had to drink the colonoscopy prep - it was disgusting, as you know. But the real reason I don't have Gatorade now is the corn issue.
Today it finally dawned on me that I am having a reaction to something. It has been so long since I reacted that I had forgotten how it feels. I don't have diarrhea - Thank God - but I am extremely bloated and feel very uncomfortable; I lack appetite and I lack motivation/energy with respect to my running; I trot along like an old tired person - not anything like the bird with wings that I was when I ran a Marathon recently. It depresses me to feel like this - I know it is going to be over soon but I can't get it over with soon enough
Trouble is I don't know what I am reacting to. It seems I am doing the same old thing with my food. I suspect it is some Sushie I had at a restaurant 4-5 days ago.
Do you know what is in the so-called Seaweed salad that was in one of the Sushie rolls? I liked it so well I ate 2 or 3 of them - I shouldn't take such risks, obviously. I was so excited to have found a restaurant that I could go to with my husband and kids and we all had a choice of dishes. Maybe I need to narrow down my choice a little
If the reaction is related to the SUshie Bar visit I should be on the way to ridding myself of the symptoms, right?
I will let you know how I do in a couple of days.
Thanks for listening, again..........
Love,
Karen
p.S. iF I had eaten any of the raw oysters offered at the restaurant I would have been convinced I was sick because of the oysters, however, I didn'e eat any raw oysters even though I was tempted to try them. I chickened out because there was no sauce to mask the taste - nothing to wash them down with. Oh, well - turns out I might as well have eaten some of the raw oysters since I am now sick anyway. - Funny?!!!!
I know that the corn situation opens or as in my case closes many doors; it would make a big difference if I could/can tolerate it. Gatorade is always offered at the road races - I haven't had Gatorade since the day I had to drink the colonoscopy prep - it was disgusting, as you know. But the real reason I don't have Gatorade now is the corn issue.
Today it finally dawned on me that I am having a reaction to something. It has been so long since I reacted that I had forgotten how it feels. I don't have diarrhea - Thank God - but I am extremely bloated and feel very uncomfortable; I lack appetite and I lack motivation/energy with respect to my running; I trot along like an old tired person - not anything like the bird with wings that I was when I ran a Marathon recently. It depresses me to feel like this - I know it is going to be over soon but I can't get it over with soon enough
Trouble is I don't know what I am reacting to. It seems I am doing the same old thing with my food. I suspect it is some Sushie I had at a restaurant 4-5 days ago.
Do you know what is in the so-called Seaweed salad that was in one of the Sushie rolls? I liked it so well I ate 2 or 3 of them - I shouldn't take such risks, obviously. I was so excited to have found a restaurant that I could go to with my husband and kids and we all had a choice of dishes. Maybe I need to narrow down my choice a little
If the reaction is related to the SUshie Bar visit I should be on the way to ridding myself of the symptoms, right?
I will let you know how I do in a couple of days.
Thanks for listening, again..........
Love,
Karen
p.S. iF I had eaten any of the raw oysters offered at the restaurant I would have been convinced I was sick because of the oysters, however, I didn'e eat any raw oysters even though I was tempted to try them. I chickened out because there was no sauce to mask the taste - nothing to wash them down with. Oh, well - turns out I might as well have eaten some of the raw oysters since I am now sick anyway. - Funny?!!!!
Inspired by the paleolithic diet and lifestyle -
living w/o gluten, dairy, soy, corn, and yeast.
living w/o gluten, dairy, soy, corn, and yeast.
Hi Karen,
It's impossible to say with certainty, because I suspect that there are probably many versions of seaweed salad, but I'm pretty sure that most of them contain soy sauce, and you know what that means. Your symptoms sound a lot like a gluten reaction, too.
You probably don't have D, because you're gut has been healed so long, (and you've been so careful to keep out all traces of gluten), that you don't have enough cumulative damage to trigger the D, but leaky gut comes automatically with gluten, so you're feeling the other symptoms of gluten sensitivity.
That's my best guess, anyway. Once the leaky gut causes the toxins to be distributed all over the body, it takes a while for them to wear off. I hope you're over it pretty soon. If it finally goes away, and doesn't return, you've probably pinpointed the culprit.
Love,
Wayne
P S You know, Gatorade kind of reminds me of a cleanout prep too, now that I think about it. I've always realized that there was something about the taste that I didn't l like, but I never made the connection. It has that same sort of salty, sort of sickening taste, doesn't it. LOL.
It's impossible to say with certainty, because I suspect that there are probably many versions of seaweed salad, but I'm pretty sure that most of them contain soy sauce, and you know what that means. Your symptoms sound a lot like a gluten reaction, too.
You probably don't have D, because you're gut has been healed so long, (and you've been so careful to keep out all traces of gluten), that you don't have enough cumulative damage to trigger the D, but leaky gut comes automatically with gluten, so you're feeling the other symptoms of gluten sensitivity.
That's my best guess, anyway. Once the leaky gut causes the toxins to be distributed all over the body, it takes a while for them to wear off. I hope you're over it pretty soon. If it finally goes away, and doesn't return, you've probably pinpointed the culprit.
Love,
Wayne
P S You know, Gatorade kind of reminds me of a cleanout prep too, now that I think about it. I've always realized that there was something about the taste that I didn't l like, but I never made the connection. It has that same sort of salty, sort of sickening taste, doesn't it. LOL.