study linking Hashimoto's with LC

[artteacher]

Hashimoto's thyroiditis is the most common reason for hypothyroidism (low thyroid function). It causes the throid to underfunction due to autoimmune attack. This attached study from doctors in Turkey showed an unusually high proportion of MC in Hashimoto's patients. I think many of us (even those who aren't aware of any autoimmune problems) may have autoimmune activity, & maybe low thyroid that they're not aware of.

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=13519550

Love, Marsha

[tex]

Hi Marsha,

This parallels the results of a totally different study that Joanna posted about, that we've been discussing. I think this is the key sentence concerning this issue:

This finding suggests that lymphocytic colitis may have an asymptomatic clinical course and should encourage further clinical investigations to better anticipate the relationship between autoimmune disorders.

I would bet that if you check colonic biopsies of any, and/or all patients with various autoimmune issues, you would find a high percentage of the markers of LC, among them. In fact, I'm beginning to wonder what would happen if you were to assemble a random sample of the general population, and perform a colonoscopy with biopsies on every one of them.

Outside of being arrested for impersonating a medical doctor, I'll bet that you would find a relatively high percentage of biopsies that show the markers oF MC. I think that a lot of people have had MC at one time in their lives, and didn't even realize it. The difference between them and us, is that they got over it, without any special treatment, and without any lingering symptoms. It would probably behoove us to try to figure out why.

Love,
Tex

[harvest_table]

This is a great article Marsha!

This is now the second study I have read that found MC in unsuspecting patients with no MC symptoms who were being investigated for another type of autoimmune issue by use of a colonoscopy.

I think this is the key sentence concerning this issue:

This finding suggests that lymphocytic colitis may have an asymptomatic clinical course and should encourage further clinical investigations to better anticipate the relationship between autoimmune disorders.

[mle_ii]

I would bet that if you check colonic biopsies of any, and/or all patients with various autoimmune issues, you would find a high percentage of the markers of LC, among them. In fact, I'm beginning to wonder what would happen if you were to assemble a random sample of the general population, and perform a colonoscopy with biopsies on every one of them.

Outside of being arrested for impersonating a medical doctor, I'll bet that you would find a relatively high percentage of biopsies that show the markers oF MC. I think that a lot of people have had MC at one time in their lives, and didn't even realize it. The difference between them and us, is that they got over it, without any special treatment, and without any lingering symptoms. It would probably behoove us to try to figure out why.

Love,
Tex

I agree with this 100%.

[bobh]

an unusually high proportion of MC in Hashimoto's patients. I think many of us ... may have autoimmune activity, & maybe low thyroid that they're not aware of. Love, Marsha

Marsha, you wrote something a few weeks ago that sounded so much like my symptoms - the thyroid working in "fits & spurts". I went right to my Dr and asked for tests for Hashimoto's, and am getting blood drawn tomorrow to check for "antibodies" (I suppose to show if the body is fighting it's own thyroid, or it's hormones...)

I also did the Adrenal test, where you do the 4 saliva samples throughout the day, sent it off this morning. Hadn't done either of those before, will let you know how it goes. I know I have MC (per biopsy) and suspect Hashimoto's.

[harvest_table]

The findings that LC may have a symptom free clinical course is very interesting. Why are folks asymptomactic of LC/MC, but clearly having the markers for it being DX after a colonoscopy with only others types of autoimmune issues, such as Hashimoto's?

And, what is the bottom line role of gluten in all this?

Love,
Joanna

[tex]

Joanna,

We don't know that only people with autoimmune issues often present with the markers of LC. For all we know, this may be true for other segments of the general population, or possibly the entire universe of the general population.

No one has ever done a study of colon biopsy samples from the general population, searching for the markers of MC. The only time that anyone is "colonoscopied", (is that a word?), is when a a colon issue is being investigated, and in the statistically few cases where biopsies are taken, they are usually taken in disease-specific locations, (for example, cancer tissue, polyps, etc. - not distributed over the colon). Even if LC were occasionally noted, in cases such as this, the information would be buried in stacks of individual case files, unless some investigator chose to analyze them, and correlate the date for publication.

Love,
Tex

[artteacher]

Hi Everyone,

Hey Bob, I'm glad you're following up in that direction . . I'm especially interested in finding out more about Hashimoto's, because I was practically thrown out of a endochronologist's office about 12 years ago. Long story, but it was before I was diagnosed with lupus, and a GP looked at my bloodwork and said, "you have antibodies to your thyroid! No wonder you're having problems, I'm sending you to a endo!" So I'm all hopeful, sit in endo's exam room; he looks at my file, says "Pgrhhh, 30% of ALL people with hypothyroid have antibodies to their thyroid!" . . . end of session! Just like that. Like I had imposed myself on him. So now I'm again at a endo's office, and he's nicer, and more informative, and checking other gland functions. I'll find out next Tuesday how those tests look. A long time ago I did have a saliva test which showed adrenal stress, but this time he's doing a blood test because of odd symptoms and blood indicators.

Anyway, Hashimoto's apparently can cause a lot of the symptoms I've had my whole life, like mood swings, ADD-like hyperactivity and energy, and then terrible swings in the opposite direction involving extreme fatigue, thickened skin on fingers and feet, etc. Here I am being all hypochondriacal, with all these weird symptoms (digestion, skin, fatigue, attention/memory/mood, boy I could go on) and it all makes sense if you realize that thyroid controls your metablolism, which controls so much else, and effects so many other hormones. And if you have antibodies attacking one gland, it is very likely an indicator that other "things" are also getting attacked. The lining of the gut, the parathyroid glands, pituatary, who knows?

My brother has had kidney stones, recently found out he has lost 25% bone mass (he's only 46), and it's traced to a parathyroid problem. He doesn't know yet how it will be addressed, but I would encourage everyone who has had kidney stones and MC, to please read up on the parathyroid gland. If you know your calcium level (and it's 10. or above) you should also look into it. From what I've read . . . and like you said, Tex, I'm not a doctor, so, sorry guys if I'm kind of fanatical.

Anyway, talk to you soon? Love, Marsha

[Polly]

Interesting topic.

I have been lucky, so far, that I have not developed Hashimoto's thyroiditis. Both my mother and her mother had it. Plus my grandmother also had rheumatoid arthritis. But I am the only one with gut problems, as far as I know. Joanna, yours is the million dollar question - why people develop different types of AI diseases. Guess it's due to genes.

Do you remember AnnE from Canada, one of our original members here?
I remember that she had Hashimoto's. Once she had adopted a GF diet for her MC, she reported that she was able to decrease her daily dose of thyroid medication.

I would bet that many people would have biopsy findings of MC on any given day - from a host of other causes. Don't forget - the markers for inflammation in the gut that are the hallmark of MC (lymphocytes and collagen) are NON-SPECIFIC. All they do is tell us there is inflammation - they say nothing about the cause. So that other things can provoke the same response - a GI virus or a toxin for example. My brother recently had a routine colonoscopy which showed inflammatory changes in the biopsy just after he suffered from a wicked GI virus. His doc treated him with Cipro for a week.

Marsha, that's really interesting about your brother. Do they think it's an AI parathyroid problem? My dog was diagnosed 3 years ago with an AI parathyroid problem. I surfed the net then and found it may have been caused by immunizations or grain in his diet. (The wolf, which is the ancestor of all dogs today, has no grain in its diet). So Rusty has been on a completely grain-free diet since then - even his biscuits/treats are grain-free. He is thriving and walks/runs at least 4 miles a day on the trail. His coat has never looked better. He takes calcitriol (vitamin D) every day.

Great food for thought in this post.

Love,

Polly

[artteacher]

Hi Polly, thanks for the information. I have no idea why it is related to autoimmune problems, but it is. Addison's disease, for instance, can be autoimmune, and it is strongly linked to celiac and gluten sensitivity. President Kennedy was thought to be both (gluten intolerant or celiac, and Addison's). And the parathyroid problem can be due to a growth, or tumor, also. But I'll get back to you. I don't want to write anything till I check what I read . .

Love, Marsha

[bobh]

A long time ago I did have a saliva test which showed adrenal stress... Anyway, Hashimoto's apparently can cause a lot of the symptoms I've had my whole life... Love, Marsha

I'm not an MD, but this site talks about how you can have grief supplementing THRYOID if your ADRENALS are also in trouble: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/ That site also has interesting stuff on how thyroid can relate to some of the depression symptoms: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/th ... al-health/

Last year I was following a protocol mentioned in the book "fatigued to fantastic" where I got my MD to prescribe adrenal meds (Cortef) then you introduce Thyroid meds (Armour's). It helped immensely, but then I ran out of money and didn't get follow up tests, and don't think I had the right doses, and ended up abandoning the program. The web site mentioned above has given me courage that it is worth going into further debt to get to the bottom of this thyroid-adrenal issue, and follow up tests to monitor the levels, etc.

I finally have my Colitis under control (remission just over the 4 month point, due to Entocort). If I can get this other stuff under control - that would be nice. My saliva (adrenal) test was sent in Monday, I did the Thyroid blood work yesterday (checking for anti-bodies ->Hashimoto's, and free T-3, etc etc.)

I will post when I get all the results back, may be over a week.

[harvest_table]

Genes+Gluten+Naids+Virus=MC and other autoimmune problems?

Great thread.

Love,
Joanna

[artteacher]

Hi again Bob,

Do you have family members with autoimmune problems? Just curious. Yes, I did read about adrenal/thyroid treatment complications. And when my rx for levothyroxin was recently doubled I got some symptoms that kind of alarmed me - I lost my appetite almost the same day, except for pickles, salt, mustard, or anything drowned in those things. I was nauseous every time I ate, my eyelashes have thinned out by at least half (I have big chunks missing on one eye in particular). Doesn't that paint a pretty picture???? My voice got hoarse, although I didn't have a cold. I look really yellow, although I haven't been in the sun. I called the doctor, who had the nurse return the call, telling me that it couldn't be the thyroid rx change that caused it, maybe to try taking the rx at night instead of am, and that besides, my thyroid looked normal last time I was in. Which was wrong, of course, that's why my rx was increased. She looked at the chart again and corrected herself.

My appointment with him is the 16th. He was recommended by a family friend, who is an ER doctor, but I'm discouraged already. Do you have any advice for me?

Love, Marsha

[bobh]

Hi again Bob, Do you have family members with autoimmune problems? ...Love, Marsha

Yep. My mother's mother died in middle age with autoimmune issues (Scleraderma). She had chronic colitis, but of course they didn't diagnose MC in those days.

I just got my blood test back, positive for Hashimoto's (auto-immune attack on thyroid). That site I referenced above says to get the Free T-3 into the upper normal range, and mine came back in the lower normal range. My MD wrote "autoimmunity but no hypothyroid". I disagree, and will tell him I want to treat it - I have the manifestations. He has been very lenient with me in the past, allowing me to "try" things to see if they help symptoms.

I don't have the adrenal 24 hour test back yet, that will be the complete "snapshot" of where I am at. Never had that test done before.

I was very uninformed about Hashimoto's till you brought it up a couple weeks ago - glad you mentioned it. I have a lot of research to do in the coming week before seeing my MD. I am not sure how you treat something that fluctuates, as the thyroid appears to do if it is under autoimmune attack.

My appointment with him is the 16th. He was recommended by a family friend, who is an ER doctor, but I'm discouraged already. Do you have any advice for me?

I wish I was better educated on the thyroid. All I can say is to read up, get armed with 200% more data than the average patient before you see him. I have no insurance, and my Dr. knows we can do whatever the hell we want - and that helps. Plus he is very holistic oriented (yet is a full MD). If your Dr. won't see things your way, find another one that will.

[harvest_table]

I just got my blood test back, positive for Hashimoto's (auto-immune attack on thyroid).

Oh my goodness, Bob. Question, you were DX with MC years ago right?

Marsha, were you DX with Hashimoto's before you had a MC DX?

Love,
Joanna