cludwig wrote:I go to an endocrinologist (3 actually) and they all laugh at the saliva and urine tests that my naturopath has done that says I have adrenal fatigue.
It's easy to laugh when you don't have the symptoms or problem. They are pronouncing their ignorance, and I don't care how many diploma's they have on the wall. they didn't fix me - and if they were practicing in the East they would not be paid for their shoddy work.
So, Bob...are you treating yourself ( which I completely get given my experiences with endos) or have you found an endo or naturopath to help cause my naturopath can't prescribe the thyroid pills.
I have been seeing the same MD for 10 years, because he is a good person. I can show him some research, and he is willing to let me try just about anything if I have a published study to back it up, and it can be explained to him.
For me, that is more important than his knowledge. I have given up on "most" MD's knowing how to fix me. This has been going on for me since 1986 and I would kind of like to fix it this lifetime.
Here we are again on a new page - be sure to check out the last page - these are some long posts...
mle_ii wrote: Something is busted, the engineer in me is screaming for answers.
Sometimes there is a "cause and effect" that brings this stuff about. If the thyroid is low (I have antibodies - I think all of us with positive results from Entero-labs can understand that). Low thyroid will over tax the adrenals, and you do get a cascade effect.
Stress, from any number of the reasons stated on the following chart can cause some of these issues to "start", so I am not asserting that all of this is a birth thing - but to some extent mine is. http://www.chronicfatigue.org/Selye%20large.html
I am searching for that test...but if memory serves me right...I think I was high in mercury and iodine. They were waiting for me to get stronger before they did any chelation. I am stronger than I was a year ago...but I never followed through with this.
Hi Bob,
Sounds like a great arrangement. The last thing I want to do when I am sick is figure out my own health issues...and the field of endocrinology seems even less helpful than gasteroenterology. It does seem that in the area of gastro...they are beginning to incorporate a lot of what naturopaths have been saying for years. Unfortunately only the MDs and the drug companies get the money to do good research. With naturopaths, it's a lot more trial and error.
I'll get the books and see if there is a better direction to take. Thanks again.
cludwig wrote: the field of endocrinology seems even less helpful than gasteroenterology.
Here's what Janie says, she has been working wth 1,000s of thyroid-adrenal patients on her various forums for years:
Generally, we as thyroid patients have learned that Endocrinologists are often not the best doctors to see to get excellent thyroid care. There are exceptions, but overall, Endocrinologists tend to be excessively rigid about prescribing T4-only medications, and close-minded about dosing according to symptoms rather than the TSH. We have learned to find a better quality doctor.
When we enter the doctor’s office, we have learned to approach the interaction as a team, and expect the same from our doctor. We live in our bodies; they do not. We have intellect and expect our doctor to respect our own knowledge, which this site will give a patient.
If we find that our doctors do not respect our knowledge and do not give importance to our subjective experience from living in our own body, we will seek out a better doctor.
And it actually responds to the issue Chrisi had, with her "high and mighty" Endo not approving of the tests she had done with her Naturopath:
most doctors are unfamiliar with this condition for the simple reason that it is difficult to diagnose effectively by traditional blood test. Normal blood tests are designed to detect severe absolute deficiency of adrenal hormones known as Addison's disease. This disease afflicts only 4 out of 100,000
The best way to test your adrenal health is to measure your level of free key adrenal hormones such as cortisol and DHEA. Saliva testing is preferred as it measures the amount of free and circulating hormones instead of the binded hormone commonly measured in blood test.
DHEA can be measured anytime during the day. Cortisol, on the other hand, is the highest in the morning and lowest in the evening before bedtime. Taking 4 samples of cortisol (at 8 am, noon, 5 pm, and before bedtime) is the most accurate. With multiple samples taken throughout the day, we are able to map the daily diurnal curve of free cortisol in the body relative to DHEA level. This will give us a much clearer picture of adrenal function.
This morning when I emailed my saliva results to my primary care doc, he explained that you guys are all wrong, because those saliva tests just aren't very accurate. Who ya' gonna believe, eh? Is there a sarcasm emoticon?
Unfortunately, the doc is the one who will be prescribing for me.
Edit: Whoops, I see my earlier post didn't take. I want to thank you Bob, you are helping me tremendously. I've been reading up at Stopthemadness, and even found their forum. There's a funny looking guy there using your name !
My biggest issue now is how to get the stuff and I need, and get it fast and cheap. My doc did order a few of the tests I asked for, and I think he'll refer my to someone else. It could be a month. I'm on the edge of walking away from my HMO and paying out of pocket.
Unfortunately, that seems to be a typical reaction for a lot of doctors, concerning testing methods that they're not familiar with.
This emoticon probably best sums up my thoughts on his response:
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Reggie wrote:My biggest issue now is how to get the stuff and I need, and get it fast and cheap.
Have you decided that you are going to start walking that path - toward a "replacement dose" of adrenal-thyroid meds? That has to be a yes, or no, you can't do it 1/2 way or the body will down-regulate it's own production and you get nowhere.
Mike, the research on the methylation cycle is coming from autism and the work of Amy Yasko. The cover article on Discover magazine this month is autism and they talk about it a lot.
The thing that people with fatigue point out is that you can read that whole article and substitute CFS for autism and it still makes sense. Some researchers think they are really getting to the core with this. I'm not able to read and analyze this like you guys could.
Gotcha. I think I posted something at the top of this thread about a Dr who is very familiar with what we are talking about, and most of her patients are out of state. If you have labs, she will prescribe based on those labs. http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/co ... ight=gedde
Thanks, I couldn't find that on the site, I looked. There's also a "Fibro and Fatigue Center" nearby, and I understand the first thing they do is put everyone on cortef and thyroids. The chain doesn't have a sterling reputation, but the Seattle doctor is supposed to be pretty good.
You said something about not doing it halfway. Are you saying I can't just pump my test numbers up a little (like my doc would like) and walk away. I need to get up to the top third of normal for thyroid and stay there.
!
