Hi,
I'm still struggling with D and extreme fatigue, despite taking Cortef and following a very restricted diet. My symptoms get 100 times worse before, during and after my menstrual cycle. So, it's been a miserable three weeks.
Does anyone here have experience with Candida? The condition seems to describe a lot of my symptoms. But I remember my gastroenterologist saying she didn't believe in it.
Thanks,
Magyar
Candida?
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Hi Magyar,
Yes, it could be candida, but usually, you'll have indicators such as thrush, (white tongue), and itching, where the sun don't shine. The symptoms should be worse if you eat a lot of carbs, and diminish when you cut out carbs for a while. Candida can be very difficult to eliminate, once it becomes established.
Candida roots penetrate the "tight junctions" between the cells of the epithelia in the intestines, which forces them to stay open, and allows long polymer chains to enter your bloodstream, thus perpetuating symptoms such as diarrhea, fatigue, aching joints, etc.
Another possibility is intestinal endometriosis. It can be present, yet not be detected by a colonoscopy. Have you or your doctor considered that possibility? Please read this article, to see if it fits your symptoms.
http://www.infertilityphysician.com/end ... tinal.html
Tex
P S As you probably already know, you can't always go by what GI docs "don't believe in". Some of them don't believe in a lot of things, such as food intolerances causing colitis, for example.
Yes, it could be candida, but usually, you'll have indicators such as thrush, (white tongue), and itching, where the sun don't shine. The symptoms should be worse if you eat a lot of carbs, and diminish when you cut out carbs for a while. Candida can be very difficult to eliminate, once it becomes established.
Candida roots penetrate the "tight junctions" between the cells of the epithelia in the intestines, which forces them to stay open, and allows long polymer chains to enter your bloodstream, thus perpetuating symptoms such as diarrhea, fatigue, aching joints, etc.
Another possibility is intestinal endometriosis. It can be present, yet not be detected by a colonoscopy. Have you or your doctor considered that possibility? Please read this article, to see if it fits your symptoms.
http://www.infertilityphysician.com/end ... tinal.html
Tex
P S As you probably already know, you can't always go by what GI docs "don't believe in". Some of them don't believe in a lot of things, such as food intolerances causing colitis, for example.
Another possibility could be Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth. I plan on doing a write up soon as I just started reading the book I mentioned in another thread. Given symptoms and foods that are problems for me and other folks here I'm starting to wonder if some who haven't quite gotten past their MC have moved onto SIBO now.
Thanks for the input. I'm seeing a doctor about intestinal endometriosis this Wed. and will see what he says. The problem is, it's not an easy disease to treat. Even after surgery, the disease can recur.
I don't have the itching or thrush issues associated with candida, but I have other symptoms. I ordered a book on it and could at least give the diet a try, if not convince my doctor to prescribe Diflucan to see if that makes any difference (I'm already taking probiotics).
I've had the big CDSA testing done and I don't think I have SIBO. I did show zero levels of Lactobacilius (one of the good bacterium), which is why I'm taking probiotics. After all the Pepto Bismol I've taken, I'm not surprised I lack the good bacteria. I think SIBO is treated with antibiotics, which I've tried several times to no avail.
Anyway, I'll let everyone know what I learn re: intestinal endometriosis.
Thanks,
Magyar
I don't have the itching or thrush issues associated with candida, but I have other symptoms. I ordered a book on it and could at least give the diet a try, if not convince my doctor to prescribe Diflucan to see if that makes any difference (I'm already taking probiotics).
I've had the big CDSA testing done and I don't think I have SIBO. I did show zero levels of Lactobacilius (one of the good bacterium), which is why I'm taking probiotics. After all the Pepto Bismol I've taken, I'm not surprised I lack the good bacteria. I think SIBO is treated with antibiotics, which I've tried several times to no avail.
Anyway, I'll let everyone know what I learn re: intestinal endometriosis.
Thanks,
Magyar
Celiac (gluten-free since 2000), Lymphocytic colitis since 2000.
Hi Magyar,
I have been fighting these symptoms since surgery late 2005. I have been strictly gluten, diary, soy, egg and yeast free for over a year and didn't have any relief from my symptoms even after two tries with entocort, until last Nov. when I went on diflucan..an anti yeast medication. I was completely D free within a month.
I have had a hard time trying to figure all this out because I also had my gallbladder removed in Feb. 2007. After the surgery I started to expand my diet...had been paleo for a long time with no sugar of any sort. I added more fruit and maple syrup. Then I made a mistake and added the low sodium version of the chicken broth I had been safely using and used it a month before noticing it had yeast in it. During that time my BMs went back to multiple episodes of D.
So I dropped the sugars and went back on caprylic acid pills a natural treatment for yeast infection....back to normal stools within a week.
I saw a doctor for chronic fatigue syndrome last week and was surprised to find out that people with this condition always have bad gastrointestinal problems and that most are suffering from intestinal yeast infections. The symptoms are exactly as people here exhibit...gas cramping and D.
There are two good books talking about this connection. The one Bob recommended called From Fatigued to Fantastic by Jacob Teitelbaum ....and the second is The Yeast Connection and Women's Health by William Crook. Both a really informative and helpful.
I was Dx with a mild case of Lymphocytic colitis in 2006, and I have learned that yeast can trigger an immune reaction inflammatory response as well. I also have never had thrush or a vaginal yeast infection before ever and my MD said that was not unusual in chronic fatigue people.
Last...I want to let you know that when I started to treat a yeast infection, I became even more sick and my D gets worse for a good week before it started to get better. I think it is the body trying to heal itself by getting rid of the yeast as fast as it can. From what I have read on this site, most people stop taking things if they get sicker at first and with yeast you have to power through it to get better.
I finally eliminated all fruit last week and the absence of gas cramps and bloating is dramatic. Since I have been eating paleo for a long while I will have to figure out a new way to eat as just meat and veggies is too restrictive for me to handle. It feels like it has been forever for me to figure this out. I hope it helps you as well.
Love,
Cristi
I have been fighting these symptoms since surgery late 2005. I have been strictly gluten, diary, soy, egg and yeast free for over a year and didn't have any relief from my symptoms even after two tries with entocort, until last Nov. when I went on diflucan..an anti yeast medication. I was completely D free within a month.
I have had a hard time trying to figure all this out because I also had my gallbladder removed in Feb. 2007. After the surgery I started to expand my diet...had been paleo for a long time with no sugar of any sort. I added more fruit and maple syrup. Then I made a mistake and added the low sodium version of the chicken broth I had been safely using and used it a month before noticing it had yeast in it. During that time my BMs went back to multiple episodes of D.
So I dropped the sugars and went back on caprylic acid pills a natural treatment for yeast infection....back to normal stools within a week.
I saw a doctor for chronic fatigue syndrome last week and was surprised to find out that people with this condition always have bad gastrointestinal problems and that most are suffering from intestinal yeast infections. The symptoms are exactly as people here exhibit...gas cramping and D.
There are two good books talking about this connection. The one Bob recommended called From Fatigued to Fantastic by Jacob Teitelbaum ....and the second is The Yeast Connection and Women's Health by William Crook. Both a really informative and helpful.
I was Dx with a mild case of Lymphocytic colitis in 2006, and I have learned that yeast can trigger an immune reaction inflammatory response as well. I also have never had thrush or a vaginal yeast infection before ever and my MD said that was not unusual in chronic fatigue people.
Last...I want to let you know that when I started to treat a yeast infection, I became even more sick and my D gets worse for a good week before it started to get better. I think it is the body trying to heal itself by getting rid of the yeast as fast as it can. From what I have read on this site, most people stop taking things if they get sicker at first and with yeast you have to power through it to get better.
I finally eliminated all fruit last week and the absence of gas cramps and bloating is dramatic. Since I have been eating paleo for a long while I will have to figure out a new way to eat as just meat and veggies is too restrictive for me to handle. It feels like it has been forever for me to figure this out. I hope it helps you as well.
Love,
Cristi
Hi Cristi,
Thanks for the info. re: Candida. I have lots of questions:
Why didn't you try repeating Diflucan when your symptoms recurred? Is it something you only try once?
Can you eat any grains at all?
Do you recommend that I avoid fruit?
Did going yeast-free help with the fatigue?
How were you diagnosed with Candida?
Thanks again for your reply. I'm glad you found a solution. I hope you are able to feel well and also eat well.
Magyar
Thanks for the info. re: Candida. I have lots of questions:
Why didn't you try repeating Diflucan when your symptoms recurred? Is it something you only try once?
Can you eat any grains at all?
Do you recommend that I avoid fruit?
Did going yeast-free help with the fatigue?
How were you diagnosed with Candida?
Thanks again for your reply. I'm glad you found a solution. I hope you are able to feel well and also eat well.
Magyar
Celiac (gluten-free since 2000), Lymphocytic colitis since 2000.
Hi Magyar,
I just completed a stool test through the CFS clinic to test for yeast infection. It is my understanding that it is very difficult to detect as everyone has yeast but she said this lab is better at finding it.
In Dec 2006 I went to Mayo and on lab results I discovered that one of my liver enzymes was mildly elevated. I researched this and found out that Diflucan can do this as well as a diseased gallbladder. Since I had both...I am uncertain which caused it but am having that re- tested to see if it is normal. If it is I will use the diflucan again while getting tested frequently to make sure it doesn't happen again.
So for now I am trying natural methods along with diet.
I didn't mean to indicate that food allergies didn't play into this. I learned from Dr. Fines, test that I am gluten diary soy egg yeast intolerant and when I eliminated those it helped some...mostly with brain fog. But there was just something more going on....I felt like I had toxins in my body very sick and tired. In Dr. Crooks' Yeast book, he says that most people with intestinal yeast issues develop food allergies and that once the yeast is under control, the allergies get much less severe.
I had a month before my gallbladder problems began and after I had been on the diflucan for 6 weeks where I was feeling much better. I am just new to figuring this out for myself. I have been keeping a food journal for over a year and leaving out all sugar and yeast has helped more than anything with the gas cramping gurgling and D.
I have been grain free for about a year...just tried some brown rice pasta yesterday with no problems. So I will try to add some grain back.
This week I also did a urine collection test for cortisol as I am pretty sure my thyroid and adrenals are messed up as well. In the CFS book, It talks about the major things that go wrong at the same time and they include yeast infection, lack of deep sleep, messed up endocrine system,and immune dysfunction.
I thought I was getting plenty of sleep...but they gave me a mild sleeping pill and it has also helped a lot as apparently I was not getting enough deep sleep...am not sleeping any longer just deeper. I bring this up because the author of the book says to get any results you have to treat all the problems because they are all related.
If you google intestinal yeast diet you will find diet restrictions for candida. If you know you have food allergies I think you will need to get rid of those as well...esp. gluten. I went Paleo before I knew about the candida stuff...I think this would be too difficult without the fruit . My game plan is to eat meat, veggies,and several whole grains. I also tolerate nuts and nut butters well. Diet is a pretty individual thing.
I will let you know how this goes for me. I am really encouraged by how fast I am feeling better with just the small changes I have made.
You'll figure this out. It's very hard to feel so rotten..but you sound like you're very determined to get to the root of this. Good luck.
Love,
Cristi
I just completed a stool test through the CFS clinic to test for yeast infection. It is my understanding that it is very difficult to detect as everyone has yeast but she said this lab is better at finding it.
In Dec 2006 I went to Mayo and on lab results I discovered that one of my liver enzymes was mildly elevated. I researched this and found out that Diflucan can do this as well as a diseased gallbladder. Since I had both...I am uncertain which caused it but am having that re- tested to see if it is normal. If it is I will use the diflucan again while getting tested frequently to make sure it doesn't happen again.
So for now I am trying natural methods along with diet.
I didn't mean to indicate that food allergies didn't play into this. I learned from Dr. Fines, test that I am gluten diary soy egg yeast intolerant and when I eliminated those it helped some...mostly with brain fog. But there was just something more going on....I felt like I had toxins in my body very sick and tired. In Dr. Crooks' Yeast book, he says that most people with intestinal yeast issues develop food allergies and that once the yeast is under control, the allergies get much less severe.
I had a month before my gallbladder problems began and after I had been on the diflucan for 6 weeks where I was feeling much better. I am just new to figuring this out for myself. I have been keeping a food journal for over a year and leaving out all sugar and yeast has helped more than anything with the gas cramping gurgling and D.
I have been grain free for about a year...just tried some brown rice pasta yesterday with no problems. So I will try to add some grain back.
This week I also did a urine collection test for cortisol as I am pretty sure my thyroid and adrenals are messed up as well. In the CFS book, It talks about the major things that go wrong at the same time and they include yeast infection, lack of deep sleep, messed up endocrine system,and immune dysfunction.
I thought I was getting plenty of sleep...but they gave me a mild sleeping pill and it has also helped a lot as apparently I was not getting enough deep sleep...am not sleeping any longer just deeper. I bring this up because the author of the book says to get any results you have to treat all the problems because they are all related.
If you google intestinal yeast diet you will find diet restrictions for candida. If you know you have food allergies I think you will need to get rid of those as well...esp. gluten. I went Paleo before I knew about the candida stuff...I think this would be too difficult without the fruit . My game plan is to eat meat, veggies,and several whole grains. I also tolerate nuts and nut butters well. Diet is a pretty individual thing.
I will let you know how this goes for me. I am really encouraged by how fast I am feeling better with just the small changes I have made.
You'll figure this out. It's very hard to feel so rotten..but you sound like you're very determined to get to the root of this. Good luck.
Love,
Cristi
Cristi,
That's a very good point about a yeast treatment making you feel worse, before you feel better. Candida is a tricky devil- it's almost as if it's a creature out of a science fiction novel. It has the unique ability to produce chemicals that trick the brain of the host, (the human body), into unintentionally nurturing it.
For example, if you cut down on carbs, whether in an attempt to starve it out, or for an unrelated reason, it will produce chemicals that make you crave carbs. I'm sure the process of making you feel worse, after beginning an antifungal antibiotic, is another of it's tricks. It's a very insidious and tenacious parasite. I find it rather unsettling, the way it can manipulate our brains, and therefore, our behavior, in order to preserve itself.
Tex
That's a very good point about a yeast treatment making you feel worse, before you feel better. Candida is a tricky devil- it's almost as if it's a creature out of a science fiction novel. It has the unique ability to produce chemicals that trick the brain of the host, (the human body), into unintentionally nurturing it.
For example, if you cut down on carbs, whether in an attempt to starve it out, or for an unrelated reason, it will produce chemicals that make you crave carbs. I'm sure the process of making you feel worse, after beginning an antifungal antibiotic, is another of it's tricks. It's a very insidious and tenacious parasite. I find it rather unsettling, the way it can manipulate our brains, and therefore, our behavior, in order to preserve itself.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Hi Reggie,
I am cautiously optimistic. She seemed like a pretty smart cookie to me...but they are set up to make money there.
My visit closely matched the From Fatigue to Fantastic book. She looked at my labs from the Mayo and said she has had a lot of patients who ended up there...which was good because they have eliminated all the horrible reasons one gets sick. The first thing she picked up on my labs was that my platelets were high and my iron low. My naturopath had said this was strange but I haven't been able to get another MD to see a problem.
Then she looked at the hormones and endocrine system. I am dx with hyperthyroidism yet I went in there with a temperature of 97.1 degrees. She said that didn't add up. Finally she is testing my cortisol with a urine test instead of a blood test ( which I thought was a good sign).
She said that CFS really disrupts the immune system. She said that viruses are very opportunistic in that I could be carrying around some virus from 20 years ago and it'll strike when you get runned down and that is part of the reason I am having such a difficult time with the yeast. If I get the hormones and steroids from the endocrine system to work, then the meds will work better to kill the yeast. She also said it is not the thyroid or the adrenals that are malfunctioning...but rather the pituitary and hypothalmus that produce the endocrine system to go nutty.
The fact that my son and husband have each had numerous colds and a couple rounds of flu the last couple of years and I never caught anything was evidence of how messed up my immune system is.
I did purchase sleeping medication from them (melatonan) and have been surprised at how well I am sleeping and small but nice boost of energy the next day.
So I did the urine and stool test this week. I went in last Mon. for the blood test....they only were able to get 5 vials out of me. I was shocked to find out they need 30!!! I go back in Mon to see if they can get more....which reminds me....we also talked about the blood of some CFS people get thick blood...so it's hard for oxygen to get where it's needed to feed the cells. It's more technical than that...but you get the idea.
So I am in wait and see mode. I think I am on the right track with this CFS dx.
Tex,
You are not kidding about how nasty those yeast are. They say most CFS people gain about 20 to 50 pounds before they get a handle on this . I eat tons and always feel like I am starving. Perhaps eating paleo saved me from gaining the weight. It sure has been hard giving up maple syrup after having it for a month. Sigh.
Love,
Cristi
I am cautiously optimistic. She seemed like a pretty smart cookie to me...but they are set up to make money there.
My visit closely matched the From Fatigue to Fantastic book. She looked at my labs from the Mayo and said she has had a lot of patients who ended up there...which was good because they have eliminated all the horrible reasons one gets sick. The first thing she picked up on my labs was that my platelets were high and my iron low. My naturopath had said this was strange but I haven't been able to get another MD to see a problem.
Then she looked at the hormones and endocrine system. I am dx with hyperthyroidism yet I went in there with a temperature of 97.1 degrees. She said that didn't add up. Finally she is testing my cortisol with a urine test instead of a blood test ( which I thought was a good sign).
She said that CFS really disrupts the immune system. She said that viruses are very opportunistic in that I could be carrying around some virus from 20 years ago and it'll strike when you get runned down and that is part of the reason I am having such a difficult time with the yeast. If I get the hormones and steroids from the endocrine system to work, then the meds will work better to kill the yeast. She also said it is not the thyroid or the adrenals that are malfunctioning...but rather the pituitary and hypothalmus that produce the endocrine system to go nutty.
The fact that my son and husband have each had numerous colds and a couple rounds of flu the last couple of years and I never caught anything was evidence of how messed up my immune system is.
I did purchase sleeping medication from them (melatonan) and have been surprised at how well I am sleeping and small but nice boost of energy the next day.
So I did the urine and stool test this week. I went in last Mon. for the blood test....they only were able to get 5 vials out of me. I was shocked to find out they need 30!!! I go back in Mon to see if they can get more....which reminds me....we also talked about the blood of some CFS people get thick blood...so it's hard for oxygen to get where it's needed to feed the cells. It's more technical than that...but you get the idea.
So I am in wait and see mode. I think I am on the right track with this CFS dx.
Tex,
You are not kidding about how nasty those yeast are. They say most CFS people gain about 20 to 50 pounds before they get a handle on this . I eat tons and always feel like I am starving. Perhaps eating paleo saved me from gaining the weight. It sure has been hard giving up maple syrup after having it for a month. Sigh.
Love,
Cristi
Hi Shirley,
My hemoglobin is 16.1 (ref. range 12-15.5), and hematocrit is 46.4 (range 34-44.5). My iron is 80 which as I understand it is the binding capacity which is normal. But my PTC saturation is low and my ferritin is low normal. So what they have told me is that I have plenty of capacity to store the iron but when they measure it, it's low. It's unusual to have this discrepancy.
Every time I get blood work done, the discrepancy gets larger. I can tell when I start to get anemic again because I develop restless legs in the evening.
It's not pernicious anemia, but my naturopath theorizes that it could be some genetic thing where I have problems absorbing one of the B vitamins.
Anyway, it will be interesting to see what this new MD can find. She seems to be motivated to find out the cause rather than only treat the symptom.
Sorry...this was probably way more than you wanted to know.
Love,
Cristi
My hemoglobin is 16.1 (ref. range 12-15.5), and hematocrit is 46.4 (range 34-44.5). My iron is 80 which as I understand it is the binding capacity which is normal. But my PTC saturation is low and my ferritin is low normal. So what they have told me is that I have plenty of capacity to store the iron but when they measure it, it's low. It's unusual to have this discrepancy.
Every time I get blood work done, the discrepancy gets larger. I can tell when I start to get anemic again because I develop restless legs in the evening.
It's not pernicious anemia, but my naturopath theorizes that it could be some genetic thing where I have problems absorbing one of the B vitamins.
Anyway, it will be interesting to see what this new MD can find. She seems to be motivated to find out the cause rather than only treat the symptom.
Sorry...this was probably way more than you wanted to know.
Love,
Cristi
When I asked how low your platelets were, I was expecting to see something like:'
PLT (Platelets) and a number maybe between 140. - 440. (which is supposed to be normal) or higher.
Guess we were talking about two different things. Sorry.
I sure hope the new MD will be able to get to the bottom of things.
I like MD's who want to treat the cause instead of the symptom also.
I have had restless legs off and on since my late teens. It sure is misirable.
Good Luck,
Shirley
PLT (Platelets) and a number maybe between 140. - 440. (which is supposed to be normal) or higher.
Guess we were talking about two different things. Sorry.
I sure hope the new MD will be able to get to the bottom of things.
I like MD's who want to treat the cause instead of the symptom also.
I have had restless legs off and on since my late teens. It sure is misirable.
Good Luck,
Shirley
When the eagles are silent, the parrots begin to jabber"
-- Winston Churchill
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Re: Candida?
I have no personal experience with Candida but follow a paleo group and noticed the site also has a forum dedicated to Candida which might be helpful to you. This is a link a sticky thread from that forum that gives many resources.Magyar wrote:I'm still struggling with D and extreme fatigue, despite taking Cortef and following a very restricted diet. My symptoms get 100 times worse before, during and after my menstrual cycle. So, it's been a miserable three weeks.
Does anyone here have experience with Candida? The condition seems to describe a lot of my symptoms. But I remember my gastroenterologist saying she didn't believe in it.
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=15803
Our situations are much different but isn't this a good thing? I've also noticed the same thing the last couple of years during my recovery. All those around me catch colds and flu, but I don't.The fact that my son and husband have each had numerous colds and a couple rounds of flu the last couple of years and I never caught anything was evidence of how messed up my immune system is.
Love,
Joanna
THE GLUTEN FILES
http://jccglutenfree.googlepages.com/
http://jccglutenfree.googlepages.com/
Hi Joanna,
According to this MD, since my temperature was 97.1 and is always about that low ...and since we fight bugs by getting a fever...she said my body is not able to effectively fight off bugs. When we get sick...the bad feelings are usually not from the bugs themselves but from our body trying to fight off the bug. Since my body doesn't try to fight off bugs, they just set up shop and this results in me feeling lousy and tired a lot of the time.
I suppose if you feel good and you have a more normal temperature that it is a good thing in your case.
Thanks for the candida site.
Love,
Cristi
According to this MD, since my temperature was 97.1 and is always about that low ...and since we fight bugs by getting a fever...she said my body is not able to effectively fight off bugs. When we get sick...the bad feelings are usually not from the bugs themselves but from our body trying to fight off the bug. Since my body doesn't try to fight off bugs, they just set up shop and this results in me feeling lousy and tired a lot of the time.
I suppose if you feel good and you have a more normal temperature that it is a good thing in your case.
Thanks for the candida site.
Love,
Cristi