Thought I'd start a discussion on my experiences thus far on VSL#3.
I started on Tuesday and so I've gone through 4 doses thus far.
My symptoms just before starting were an extreem amount of "hot" gas. You know the gas that feels like it's burning. :( Pain and achy feeling in my stomach area. Tired. Stools going from difficult to pass to mostly unformed (though not diarrhea per se). Feeling of incomplete evacuation (like I have to go but cannot). Some sense of urgency. Mainly feeling off in the morning and tired during the day. High sugar foods give me the most problems.
So 4 days in and most all of those symptoms are either a lot lower or gone. Mainly just a bit of gas, though not any more than what would be considered normal. Some achiness at times, but significantly less and less often. Actually going more often, like say 2-3 times a day where I only went once each morning. All formed and normal. In fact the majority of the gas went away after the first day of taking the probiotic, most of the other symptoms going away within 2 days.
So far a very good experience. I can't remember that much from the first round, but I remember it helping some. The second round I took didn't really seem to do much, but it was pretty short as it was a sample and it was also the flavored kind, which apparently may contain gluten and does contain other additives that can cause issues.
Two thumbs up. :-)
Thanks,
Mike
My current trial of VSL#3 - mle_ii
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
Interesting, Mike. I am following with interest because I am going to try a probiotic again after being on antibiotics for so many months. I guess you are not having a problem with dairy. I am thinking of trying the Ultimate Flora, which is enteric-coated. One of the VSL#3 preps has corn, which I can't do. I hope your initial success continues.
Polly
Polly
Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused.
Mike, Polly and all-
I started taking Ultimate Flora on Friday.
I have been totally symptom free with no flares for several years using the Paleo diet. Or my variation on it .
I have read the articles on Dr. Scot Lewey's blog on how altered gut bacteria play an important role in the development of Celiac disease and failure to respond to a gluten free diet. Also how probiotics can increase tight junctions and reduce leaky gut. I have long believed that leaky gut is the main reason for my many food intolerance's as a result of years of untreated celiac disease or gluten intolerance .
I decided on Ultimate Flora because it has no gluten or dairy, two key components that were a major flaw in my early attempts at using probiotics, and because the price will allow me to take it on a regular basis over a long period of time. An important consideration.
My plan is to take the Ultimate Flora for about six months staying on the diet that is working so well for me and then try adding back in some of the foods that have given me the biggest problems like nightshades and GF grains. In that has taken a lot of interesting work to gain my present equilibrium I hope you can appreciate me being a little conservative.
The most I can hope for is accidentally eating some of my intolerance's on occasion and not having problems . That would would be a major victory.
So far no problems with Ultimate Flora.
This will be a long study so will be back in touch.
My best to you all and your continued recovery.
Matthew
I started taking Ultimate Flora on Friday.
I have been totally symptom free with no flares for several years using the Paleo diet. Or my variation on it .
I have read the articles on Dr. Scot Lewey's blog on how altered gut bacteria play an important role in the development of Celiac disease and failure to respond to a gluten free diet. Also how probiotics can increase tight junctions and reduce leaky gut. I have long believed that leaky gut is the main reason for my many food intolerance's as a result of years of untreated celiac disease or gluten intolerance .
I decided on Ultimate Flora because it has no gluten or dairy, two key components that were a major flaw in my early attempts at using probiotics, and because the price will allow me to take it on a regular basis over a long period of time. An important consideration.
My plan is to take the Ultimate Flora for about six months staying on the diet that is working so well for me and then try adding back in some of the foods that have given me the biggest problems like nightshades and GF grains. In that has taken a lot of interesting work to gain my present equilibrium I hope you can appreciate me being a little conservative.
The most I can hope for is accidentally eating some of my intolerance's on occasion and not having problems . That would would be a major victory.
So far no problems with Ultimate Flora.
This will be a long study so will be back in touch.
My best to you all and your continued recovery.
Matthew
Awesome news Matthew. It's so crazy that a bacteria, which I've always thought was a bad thing until the last couple of years, can be so beneficial to our bodies. Who would have thought.
Great that you found one that has none of the common allergens. I'll have to keep this in mind for other folks who ask me about probiotics.
"I have long believed that leaky gut is the main reason for my many food intolerance's as a result of years of untreated celiac disease or gluten intolerance."
This is my suspicion as well. My best guess is that most foods that bothered me in the past were only due to a leaky gut and/or the toxins from bacterial overgrowth causing a leaky gut. If the proteins don't pass through the barrier then I would consider it pretty difficult for there to be a significant immune response (though there still could be potential for it).
I keep going back to the foods that most folks here are intollerent of and see the pattern for a bacterial cause for it. The majority of foods that are problematic are foods that are hard for the body to digest, and even harder when there is some sort of dysbiosis of the intestinal tract. This would cause the number of bacteria to increase in significant numbers. And if those bacteria weren't normal inhabitants of the GI tract then all bets are off as far as how the body will react and how the bacteria will behave.
I hope that it can get me and others here to a more normal life. Not that I'll go all out on eating wheat, but I'd at least like to not have to worry about ingesting foods that are on the more "normal" food for our bodies.
So I rambled on a bit, sorry but I feel this is so much a part of what my problems are that I'm very passionate about it.
Thanks for reading thus far,
Mike
Great that you found one that has none of the common allergens. I'll have to keep this in mind for other folks who ask me about probiotics.
"I have long believed that leaky gut is the main reason for my many food intolerance's as a result of years of untreated celiac disease or gluten intolerance."
This is my suspicion as well. My best guess is that most foods that bothered me in the past were only due to a leaky gut and/or the toxins from bacterial overgrowth causing a leaky gut. If the proteins don't pass through the barrier then I would consider it pretty difficult for there to be a significant immune response (though there still could be potential for it).
I keep going back to the foods that most folks here are intollerent of and see the pattern for a bacterial cause for it. The majority of foods that are problematic are foods that are hard for the body to digest, and even harder when there is some sort of dysbiosis of the intestinal tract. This would cause the number of bacteria to increase in significant numbers. And if those bacteria weren't normal inhabitants of the GI tract then all bets are off as far as how the body will react and how the bacteria will behave.
I hope that it can get me and others here to a more normal life. Not that I'll go all out on eating wheat, but I'd at least like to not have to worry about ingesting foods that are on the more "normal" food for our bodies.
So I rambled on a bit, sorry but I feel this is so much a part of what my problems are that I'm very passionate about it.
Thanks for reading thus far,
Mike
Hi, fellow believers in bacteria!
Matthew, I am very interested in your experiment too. In fact, the reason I am planning to take Ultimate Flora is because you mentioned it here recently, and like you, I need something that is free of all of my intolerances. How much are you taking? I am thinking of trying the 50 once a day initially, and then twice a day if tolerated. I buy into the theory about the leaky gut and also hope that eventually I will be able to tolerate my milder intolerances - tomatoes, citrus, chocolate, other grains, etc. The bacterial connection makes so much sense to me after I was able to tolerate so many more things while on the Cipro recently. Maybe I will do this experiment along with you for 6 months. The last time I tried a probiotic I had awful bloating and rumbling and D, but it was Culturelle, which we know has dairy. As soon as I'm up and about from the surgery I'm going to look for the Ultimate Flora.
Mike, keep posting anything you find or think of re:bacteria.
Love,
Polly
Matthew, I am very interested in your experiment too. In fact, the reason I am planning to take Ultimate Flora is because you mentioned it here recently, and like you, I need something that is free of all of my intolerances. How much are you taking? I am thinking of trying the 50 once a day initially, and then twice a day if tolerated. I buy into the theory about the leaky gut and also hope that eventually I will be able to tolerate my milder intolerances - tomatoes, citrus, chocolate, other grains, etc. The bacterial connection makes so much sense to me after I was able to tolerate so many more things while on the Cipro recently. Maybe I will do this experiment along with you for 6 months. The last time I tried a probiotic I had awful bloating and rumbling and D, but it was Culturelle, which we know has dairy. As soon as I'm up and about from the surgery I'm going to look for the Ultimate Flora.
Mike, keep posting anything you find or think of re:bacteria.
Love,
Polly
Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused.
Hey All
I used VSL#3 for about 6 months I guess and I thought it worked well but I was never quite right on it... come to find out it has dairy in it... but it was weird that it made me feel better even though it had dairy in it...
So I stopped taking it when I found out I was intolerant of dairy and started to take a variety of others... mainly low name stuff and then I found custom probiotics online... a little cheaper than VSL#3 and coparable strains... But then after a while I felt like I didnt need it...
The digestive enzyme I use now has some probiotics in it but I would imagine they are killed with all the stomach acid when you are eating and it dont see any point in a digestive enzyme being enteric coated.
I still have some more of the custom probiotics left and maybe I will try taking it again and report my findings here.
How would one go about finding out if they have an imbalance of good and bad bacteria in their gut? Any tests avail? Are they expensive?
I used VSL#3 for about 6 months I guess and I thought it worked well but I was never quite right on it... come to find out it has dairy in it... but it was weird that it made me feel better even though it had dairy in it...
So I stopped taking it when I found out I was intolerant of dairy and started to take a variety of others... mainly low name stuff and then I found custom probiotics online... a little cheaper than VSL#3 and coparable strains... But then after a while I felt like I didnt need it...
The digestive enzyme I use now has some probiotics in it but I would imagine they are killed with all the stomach acid when you are eating and it dont see any point in a digestive enzyme being enteric coated.
I still have some more of the custom probiotics left and maybe I will try taking it again and report my findings here.
How would one go about finding out if they have an imbalance of good and bad bacteria in their gut? Any tests avail? Are they expensive?
Dr Fine test shows positive for gluten and casien but negative for soy, eggs, and yeast
Maybe its UC maybe its MC? Who knows at this point, but at least I know my intollerances now... so heres to the road to healing!
Maybe its UC maybe its MC? Who knows at this point, but at least I know my intollerances now... so heres to the road to healing!
The Brits seem to be proactive in this line of thinking:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engl ... 226095.stm
Tex
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engl ... 226095.stm
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
You might give the other probiotic that other dairy intollerant folks here are trying. Don't know a lot about it but others might. And it can be expensive, at least the one I'm taking, which is around $75 per month when taking 1 packet per day. Though that's 450 billion bacteria a dose, so I'm not sure that level would be required for too long, but this is still pretty new to me and to studies as well.ErinD wrote:Thanks for your update on the Probiatic Mike. I have been pondering trying the VSL#3 myself but was a bit iff-y due to the Dairy part. Looking forward to more updates. Is it very expensive?
Interesting, I'll have to read more on the types and numbers of bacteria used. Though I would think that for this particular type of task the numbers don't have to be as significant as they do in other diseases. Good to see more progressiveness within the medical community.tex wrote:The Brits seem to be proactive in this line of thinking:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engl ... 226095.stm
Tex
Yes, please do report back what you find.thedell19 wrote:Hey All
I used VSL#3 for about 6 months I guess and I thought it worked well but I was never quite right on it... come to find out it has dairy in it... but it was weird that it made me feel better even though it had dairy in it...
So I stopped taking it when I found out I was intolerant of dairy and started to take a variety of others... mainly low name stuff and then I found custom probiotics online... a little cheaper than VSL#3 and coparable strains... But then after a while I felt like I didnt need it...
The digestive enzyme I use now has some probiotics in it but I would imagine they are killed with all the stomach acid when you are eating and it dont see any point in a digestive enzyme being enteric coated.
I still have some more of the custom probiotics left and maybe I will try taking it again and report my findings here.
How would one go about finding out if they have an imbalance of good and bad bacteria in their gut? Any tests avail? Are they expensive?
As far as testing goes, it's still too new of an area of research to say. About the only one that I like thus far is lactulose breath testing, for both Methane and Hydrogen as well as CO2 and must be for at least 3 hours.
Some other stool testing sounds promissing, but until it gets looked at by more studies and is standardized I'm not even sure what to make of the numbers. Like I said, this is a pretty new area so you could come up with some data this week that would be totally out of date next week. We haven't even cultured a majority of the bacteria that live within our own bodies.
Even probiotics a year or so ago were only the "magical" medicine of natreopaths (sp) and main stream Drs poo poo'd it. Pun intended. :) I'm even seeing research where probiotics are being studies for reduction of dental issues.
Mike
Polly
Your plan for “trying the 50 once a day initially, and then twice a day if tolerated” is just what I had set up for a plan for myself after a lot of pondering . If I tolerate it over a period of time I may jump to the next higher level and then double that.
Funny that we have both taken the same conservative approach after disasters early on with those internet cure gremlins. LOL
I will try to keep you posted on how I am doing as I would hope anyone else trying this would do the same.
My Best
Matthew
Your plan for “trying the 50 once a day initially, and then twice a day if tolerated” is just what I had set up for a plan for myself after a lot of pondering . If I tolerate it over a period of time I may jump to the next higher level and then double that.
Funny that we have both taken the same conservative approach after disasters early on with those internet cure gremlins. LOL
I will try to keep you posted on how I am doing as I would hope anyone else trying this would do the same.
My Best
Matthew
Mike,
I notice that Nestle is named as one of the sponsors of another related research project. Some day this research may provide big benefits for everyone involved. Instead of spending millions of dollars each year trying to guarantee sterile conditions on their production lines, candy manufacturers may just forgo all that, and and simply roll their candy bars in bacteria, before wrapping them, and then they'll advertise them as "healthier" alternatives to conventional candy. Hahahahaha.
Tex
I notice that Nestle is named as one of the sponsors of another related research project. Some day this research may provide big benefits for everyone involved. Instead of spending millions of dollars each year trying to guarantee sterile conditions on their production lines, candy manufacturers may just forgo all that, and and simply roll their candy bars in bacteria, before wrapping them, and then they'll advertise them as "healthier" alternatives to conventional candy. Hahahahaha.
Tex