Hi Pat,
Have you by any chance had the gene test at Enterolab? I'm just curious, because based on your multiple intolerances, and your difficulty in achieving remission, I'd bet a GF cookie that you've got double homozygotes, most likely HLA-DQ 1,1.
Tex
Paging Pat!
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Paging Pat!
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Pat,
I think I'd better stop guessing. LOL.
Your results exactly match Mike's. I find that quite interesting, in view of the fact that both of you failed breath tests, and suspect possible SIBO problems. Maybe people with that set of genetics, (including you and Mike, of course), are somehow predisposed to a higher risk of intestinal bacterial imbalances, or maybe they, (and you two), might possibly be predisposed to something that masquerades as SIBO.
At any rate, it either means something or it's a heck of a coincidence.
Tex
P S Would you mind if I add your results to the "Gene Test" topic in the "polls" forum?
I think I'd better stop guessing. LOL.
Your results exactly match Mike's. I find that quite interesting, in view of the fact that both of you failed breath tests, and suspect possible SIBO problems. Maybe people with that set of genetics, (including you and Mike, of course), are somehow predisposed to a higher risk of intestinal bacterial imbalances, or maybe they, (and you two), might possibly be predisposed to something that masquerades as SIBO.
At any rate, it either means something or it's a heck of a coincidence.
Tex
P S Would you mind if I add your results to the "Gene Test" topic in the "polls" forum?
Remember that the results of breath tests are notoriously unreliable, because of the high level of skill required of the persons doing the testing, and making the interpretations. According to many "experts", most of the people doing those tests are not adequately qualified. (I cited a reference on that in a previous post about this issue).
IOW, I remain unconvinced that you do not have a bacterial imbalance problem. If you are in fact currently fructose intolerant, (which you may well be, since avoiding fructose apparently reduces your symptoms), then that in itself would almost mandate that a bacterial imbalance exists, otherwise, there is no logical explanation for your fructose intolerance, (unless, of course, you have a liver problem). IOW, true fructose intolerance would require that you would have had to have been born with that deficiency, and it would have shown up as soon as you began to eat "solid" foods, as an infant. Every cell in the body can metabolize glucose. However, all fructose must be metabolized in the liver.
One of the big problems with the breath test for fructose is that it relies on intestinal bacteria to produce the gases that are measured to determine the test markers. IOW, the test assumes that the intestinal bacteria are performing "normally", which is highly questionable for someone with MC, SIBO, or virtually any other type of digestive system issues. What I am suggesting, is that it may be impossible for an individual to (correctly) test positive for both fructose intolerance, and a bacterial imbalance, concurrently, by the use of breath tests, simply because of the assumptions on which the tests are keyed. Do you see what I'm trying to say?
Tex
IOW, I remain unconvinced that you do not have a bacterial imbalance problem. If you are in fact currently fructose intolerant, (which you may well be, since avoiding fructose apparently reduces your symptoms), then that in itself would almost mandate that a bacterial imbalance exists, otherwise, there is no logical explanation for your fructose intolerance, (unless, of course, you have a liver problem). IOW, true fructose intolerance would require that you would have had to have been born with that deficiency, and it would have shown up as soon as you began to eat "solid" foods, as an infant. Every cell in the body can metabolize glucose. However, all fructose must be metabolized in the liver.
One of the big problems with the breath test for fructose is that it relies on intestinal bacteria to produce the gases that are measured to determine the test markers. IOW, the test assumes that the intestinal bacteria are performing "normally", which is highly questionable for someone with MC, SIBO, or virtually any other type of digestive system issues. What I am suggesting, is that it may be impossible for an individual to (correctly) test positive for both fructose intolerance, and a bacterial imbalance, concurrently, by the use of breath tests, simply because of the assumptions on which the tests are keyed. Do you see what I'm trying to say?
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Tex I would have to agree with what your saying. But as you pointed out the liver is also involved. Fructose and glucose are the few that are readily taken up by the body without digestive enzymes required. Might be interesting to see what Pat's liver tests show as there might be potential liver damage. But then SIBO can cause elevated liver enzymes as well.
I don't believe that the HLA-DQ genes that we have in common relate to SIBO, but then I'm not saying that it doesn't as I'm learning something new every day.
Pat, could you get the numbers from the results for both the lactulose breath test and the fructose breath test? Do you have any recent liver enzyme test results, we're looking for ALT and AST to start with?
Thanks,
Mike
I don't believe that the HLA-DQ genes that we have in common relate to SIBO, but then I'm not saying that it doesn't as I'm learning something new every day.
Pat, could you get the numbers from the results for both the lactulose breath test and the fructose breath test? Do you have any recent liver enzyme test results, we're looking for ALT and AST to start with?
Thanks,
Mike
Oh and another note. The two genes we have in common make us highly susceptable to MC. Which one might argue if MC is related to SIBO then the genese might be related to SIBO as well.
As well as the HLA-DQ 2 making us highly susceptable to Celiac Disease and slightly suceptable to Type 1 diabetes.
It sure is interesting that all these genes are so interconected with various diseases. MC, CD and T1D all involve similar genes.
As well as the HLA-DQ 2 making us highly susceptable to Celiac Disease and slightly suceptable to Type 1 diabetes.
It sure is interesting that all these genes are so interconected with various diseases. MC, CD and T1D all involve similar genes.
mle_ii wrote:Tex I would have to agree with what your saying. But as you pointed out the liver is also involved. Fructose and glucose are the few that are readily taken up by the body without digestive enzymes required. Might be interesting to see what Pat's liver tests show as there might be potential liver damage. But then SIBO can cause elevated liver enzymes as well.
Exactly, that's why I added the disclaimer, "(unless, of course, you have a liver problem)".
Obviously, my suggestion that the particular gene combination that the two of you share might be linked to an increased risk of SIBO, etc., is a long shot. That's why I said "maybe", rather than "I think". Like you, I'd be surprised if it actually turns out that way. I mostly just threw it out there to get some opinions and/or conjecture on it. Still, who knows? In about 15 or 20 years, maybe someone will do the research and write about it.
Tex
The fructose test score was 113. Only needed a 20 to be considered fructose intolerant. I haven't tried any recently but noticed over the last several months since the dx that when I would try fruit/fructose I would get that gurgle immediately. I do not have hereditary fructose intolerance ( have from birth- lacking enyme) but dietary fructose intolerance. My bacteria test was at most a 7 or 9. Again needed a 20 to be considered positive. It's gonna be a cold day in you-know-where before I'll take an antibiotic after my experience with the Neomycin. It truly changed me for the worst and that was last April. I didn't have a problem with gaining weight. I was small albeit but I didn't struggle to keep my weight up. Granted I wasn't on this ridiculous diet. I could control the D with 4 immodium a day but after the Neomycin 9 a day didn't work. Lomotil 8 a day helped. Don't know if I have had liver enyme tests will have to check my records. Thanks for your interest and concern. Will let you know.
I am doing a test on my own. After the dx of DFI, my nutritionist at the time wanted me to increase my caloric intake and recommended using olive oil to cook with. I have been doing that. A friend told me of another friend of hers who was intolerant of only Canola oil. I tried leaving that out but it didn't make any difference. So I am trying leaving out the EVOO. Having a good day today. No BM yet!!! I haven't taken the probiotic either. I like having a good day. :) Will let you know on that self test too.
Pat
I am doing a test on my own. After the dx of DFI, my nutritionist at the time wanted me to increase my caloric intake and recommended using olive oil to cook with. I have been doing that. A friend told me of another friend of hers who was intolerant of only Canola oil. I tried leaving that out but it didn't make any difference. So I am trying leaving out the EVOO. Having a good day today. No BM yet!!! I haven't taken the probiotic either. I like having a good day. :) Will let you know on that self test too.
Pat
Not trying to get you to take an antibiotic, in fact I know that it can be detrimental as you've found. But I don't understand at all why the Dr gave you Neomycin, definitly not the one I would have wanted you to start on.
Anyway, back to the fructose and SIBO breath test. Could you get the full results? Meaning the numbers you produced at each interval they tested you?
You gave me the results of your SIBO test back in August.
Can you give the full results of your fructose test? What the levels were at each interval, what type of gas, etc?
Thanks,
Mike
Anyway, back to the fructose and SIBO breath test. Could you get the full results? Meaning the numbers you produced at each interval they tested you?
You gave me the results of your SIBO test back in August.
To be honest that wasn't a very good test. Very limited data and not testing for methane and not long enough. The test should be done every 20 minutes for 3 hours at least. They should have also tested you for methane (CH4) and Carbon Dioxide (CO2). I'm also wondering if you have slow motility as you were pretty much flat line with those results, so in 2 hours it doesn't even look like it hit your colon.Pat wrote:Mike,
The results were 7 at 15 minutes, 9 at 30, 8 at 45 and 7 at one hour, then they waited one hour and it was 7 again. It had to go to 20 to be positive. It was only a H2 test no methane. Pat
Can you give the full results of your fructose test? What the levels were at each interval, what type of gas, etc?
Thanks,
Mike
Sorry my message sounded so disagreeable, I can see how it was. In my strange way of writing I was agreeing with you. :)tex wrote:Exactly, that's why I added the disclaimer, "(unless, of course, you have a liver problem)".
Obviously, my suggestion that the particular gene combination that the two of you share might be linked to an increased risk of SIBO, etc., is a long shot. That's why I said "maybe", rather than "I think". Like you, I'd be surprised if it actually turns out that way. I mostly just threw it out there to get some opinions and/or conjecture on it. Still, who knows? In about 15 or 20 years, maybe someone will do the research and write about it.
Tex
Mike,
I was not very impressed with the doctor who gave me the fructose test. He was the one who gave me the Neomycin also. He said he preferred the Xifaxan but that it was very expensive and might not work. He suggested using the Neo first and if it gave some results then we would do the Xifaxan. He didn't offer the breath tests at that time and I was unfamiliar with them at that time. The nutritionist rec them and he said he had offered them to me but I didn't want to drive to his office in the city to take them. He comes to our little town once a week. He lied and she knew it. She rec I get the fructose test and lactose test but then rec I change doctors. So I did. He never rec I take the bacteria test either. Go figure. I had the bacteria test at my new doctor. The results of the fructose test are:
fasting 0
30 min 0
60 min 70
90 min 74
120 min 113
150 min 96
180 min 85
The tech wrote on the result sheet that I had 3 episodes of D after 30 min. Printed on the sheet it also says that the test is positive if at anytime after the fasting breath the score increases more than 20 -PPM. There is no report as to what type of gas. I was very nauseated and sick, bad D, for 3 days afterwards. I never felt sick after the bacteria test.
Pat
I was not very impressed with the doctor who gave me the fructose test. He was the one who gave me the Neomycin also. He said he preferred the Xifaxan but that it was very expensive and might not work. He suggested using the Neo first and if it gave some results then we would do the Xifaxan. He didn't offer the breath tests at that time and I was unfamiliar with them at that time. The nutritionist rec them and he said he had offered them to me but I didn't want to drive to his office in the city to take them. He comes to our little town once a week. He lied and she knew it. She rec I get the fructose test and lactose test but then rec I change doctors. So I did. He never rec I take the bacteria test either. Go figure. I had the bacteria test at my new doctor. The results of the fructose test are:
fasting 0
30 min 0
60 min 70
90 min 74
120 min 113
150 min 96
180 min 85
The tech wrote on the result sheet that I had 3 episodes of D after 30 min. Printed on the sheet it also says that the test is positive if at anytime after the fasting breath the score increases more than 20 -PPM. There is no report as to what type of gas. I was very nauseated and sick, bad D, for 3 days afterwards. I never felt sick after the bacteria test.
Pat
Hey Mike,
Naw, you didn't sound disagreeable - I'm just bad about repeating myself.
I realize that we're both on the same page - I just don't seem to know when to stop writing, at times. LOL.
Tex
Naw, you didn't sound disagreeable - I'm just bad about repeating myself.
I realize that we're both on the same page - I just don't seem to know when to stop writing, at times. LOL.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.