What About These "Revelations" By Dr. Fine

[tex]

Hi All,

From time to time, I reread some of the "cornerstone" information available about MC, and occasionally gain new insights, or at least a bit of thought-provoking inspiration. In looking at this "famous" speech made by Dr. Fine, in 2003, I'm struck by some of the observations that have never been disputed, verified, or whatever, by others in the field, and yet they are quite remarkable.

https://www.enterolab.com/StaticPages/E ... gnosis.htm

For example, consider this:

Dr. Fine points out that, according to his research, approximately 29% of the general population, (with no outward symptoms), show antibodies to gluten when their stool samples are tested; and, in fact, about one-third of those, (11% of the general population), showed antigliadin antibodies in their blood. Obviously, the old saw about one in 133, (or whatever), people in this country having celiac disease, must be taken with a grain of salt, since gluten intolerance is obviously quite common.

Evidence of this comes from a study that I performed. We tested 227 normal volunteers with blood tests for celiac disease. Twenty-five of these people (11%) had either antigliadin IgG or IgA in their blood versus only one (0.4%) that had antiendomysial, antitissue transglutaminase, and antigliadin IgA in the blood. So for every one person in a population that has the antibodies that have 100% specificity for celiac disease of the intestine (antiendomysial and antitissue transglutaminase), there are 24 that have antibodies to gliadin that may not have celiac disease.

In normal people without specific symptoms or syndromes, the stool test is just under 3 times more likely to be positive than blood (29% vs. 11%, respectively). That’s a lot more people reacting to gluten than 1 in 150 who have celiac disease. 29% of the normal population of this country, almost all of whom eat gluten, showing an intestinal immunologic reaction to the most immune-stimulating of dietary proteins really is not so high or far fetched a percentage, especially in light of the facts that 11% of them display this reaction in blood, and 42% carry the HLA-DQ2 or DQ8 celiac genes.

Also, note that in that talk, he stated:

Microscopic colitis is a very common chronic diarrheal syndrome, accounting for 10% of all causes of chronic diarrhea in all patients, and is the most common cause of ongoing chronic diarrhea in a treated celiac, affecting 4% of all celiac patients.

This is exactly the opposite of what most medical "experts" maintain, with their old line about MC being a "rare" disease. So is it common or rare?

What are your thoughts on these "observations? Am I the only one in the world who wonders about them? I'm not doubting their accuracy - I'm wondering why no one else has ever disputed these claims, or acknowledged them, expanded on them, or whatever. Is it because no one in the medical world wants to rock the boat?

Tex

[mle_ii]

I don't doubt their accuracy, but what exactly does it mean and should we care. In our cases, yes, but in others I'm not so sure.

I would venture to guess that anyone who eats wheat (or other gluten foods) and a "Leaky gut" would have antibodies in the stool and/or antibodies in the blood.

Leaky gut could be caused by any of the following in no particular order:
1) HLA DQ2 or 8. Well, duh, read "Open Sesame", gluten via the zonulin mechanism opens the gut wal.
2) Low Cortisol (too little cortisol in the body leads to too much inflamation which gives us a leaky gut).
3) Too much Cortisol (too much can damage the gut wall just as well via other mechanisms).
4) My favorite, Bacterial Overgrowth and perhaps any bacterial dysbiosis. Which can lead to too much inflamation causing a leaky gut, production of certain chemicals that open the gut wall or attach the gut wall, causing a leaky gut.
5) Low or slow gut motility, leading to build up of toxic amounts of normal chemicals in the body.
6) Chemical toxins we ingest. Pesticides, heavy metals, you name it.
7) Food allergies - another well duh. But I'm not talking about intollerances though.
8) I would venture to guess that some fungi (candida), virus, parasites could cause a leaky gut.
9) Certain medications (perhaps similar to the toxins above). One example would be NSAIDs. I'm sure others could list more.
10) Along with Cortisol I imagine there are other body chemicals that when produced too much or too little might cause leaky gut.
11) Other, I'm sure there's more, but I should stop while I'm wondering why everyone in the world doesn't have MC or at least gluten antibodies. LOL

I would also imagine that these things added together aren't just = to the sum, but perhaps some multiplication of damage instead.

So leaky gut + a food protein (in this case gliadin) = antibodies towards that protein. Since the body sees this protein as not belonging to the body and thus attacks it.

Boy, that turned out to be longer than I thought I was going to go on. There sure is a lot here. And my bet is indeed that MC is going to present in a lot more cases than is seen, either due to not looking for it (constipation or asymptomatic or no biopsies) or just plain missing it (patchy).

Thanks,
Mike

[tex]

Right, and I believe that candida has definitely been shown to "virtually always" cause the leaky gut syndrome, (it's roots actually penetrate the tight junctions, causing them to leak). Also, eating too much sugar for years can cause it, (which is where I suspect mine came from), and excessive alcohol intake can cause it, and a few other things that I can't think of right now.

Tex

[artteacher]

Another possiblility that nobody has disputed Dr. Fine's statements is that established doctors don't take him seriously enough to make a statement one way or another. That was the impression I got from my gastroenterologist. Although he told me I might want to take Pepto Bismol on a trial basis, he discounted the source of the information (Dr Fine), and said that the Pepto trial was a long shot, but if I was willing to experiment . . .


See you
Marsha