Go cold turkey??
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
Go cold turkey??
My DH & I have been talking about the dietary changes that will be necessary based on Enterolab results....it is just down right depressing to give up dairy products as well as gluten .....I eat a lot of cottage cheese, cheese, half & half in my coffee...you get the picture. So DH says why not just focus on gluten for a while and then start eliminating the dairy later on so it is not so much all at once? He feels for me, I know....it is not that he is trying to sabotage me. Since my casein numbers weren't THAT bad...maybe I could do that? I am grasping at straws, probably. I do not react to dairy when I eat it....however, the test results indicate that the damage goes on whether I react or not, right? I think a week with no D is pretty heady stuff and I want to believe I am fine. (Hey, stop laughing so hard and yelling..."She's soooo in denial!!!! ) Any thoughts on this is appreciated....how did you all make these drastic dietary changes when you got your results from the lab? Cold turkey or .....???
I went GF last June as soon as I read the recommendation on the old site. I started taking Entocort about July 15 and went DF, EF, SF, and YF on August 2 after I received the Enterolab results. In March I eliminated chocolate, aspartame, most fruits including citrus fruits, corn or any derivatives of it, hummus, grapes, citric acid, mixed nuts, sweet potatoes and ghee. In April I've eliminated tomatoes, cucumbers and lettuce (salads), rice cakes, peanut butter, almond butter and jelly.
I don't think I could have eliminated all the foods at once. Each new food I eliminate seems easier to eliminate than the previous. I wasn't as depressed about eliminating the gluten as I was about the dairy and eggs. I ate yogurt nearly every day and missed it for a long time. I haven't missed cheese that much except when I think about pizzas. Milk was easily replaced with rice milk, so I haven't missed that. I did start eating yeast bread 1-2 times a week several months ago because the rice bread without yeast tasted like styrofoam. I still miss eggs, not only for breakfast, but as a crucial baking ingredient. I've read that xantham gum is derived from corn, so I may need to eliminate that as an egg replacement in baked goods.
Somewhere in the process of eliminating all these foods, I've stopped eating for enjoyment and am eating for survival. It just isn't fun to eat anymore. I hope that I'll someday figure out all of my intolerances and will be able to add some of my restricted foods. I'm also hoping that I'll be able to cook more creatively once I retire and that old spark of looking forward to eating will return again.
I don't think I could have eliminated all the foods at once. Each new food I eliminate seems easier to eliminate than the previous. I wasn't as depressed about eliminating the gluten as I was about the dairy and eggs. I ate yogurt nearly every day and missed it for a long time. I haven't missed cheese that much except when I think about pizzas. Milk was easily replaced with rice milk, so I haven't missed that. I did start eating yeast bread 1-2 times a week several months ago because the rice bread without yeast tasted like styrofoam. I still miss eggs, not only for breakfast, but as a crucial baking ingredient. I've read that xantham gum is derived from corn, so I may need to eliminate that as an egg replacement in baked goods.
Somewhere in the process of eliminating all these foods, I've stopped eating for enjoyment and am eating for survival. It just isn't fun to eat anymore. I hope that I'll someday figure out all of my intolerances and will be able to add some of my restricted foods. I'm also hoping that I'll be able to cook more creatively once I retire and that old spark of looking forward to eating will return again.
You never know what you can do until you have to do it.
WOW!! Gloria....what a story!! Yes, it is the yogurt and other dairy that I would miss the most....I have been "low-carbing" for quite a few years (I have lost 60 pounds that way & kept them off) and butter and cream cheese are good friends!!! I am interested in how you came to the conclusion to eliminate the other foods like citrus or sweet potoatoes or any of the others? Do you react immediately to these foods? or hours later or the next day? Rice milk has sugar so that is out for me, also almond milk....I don't really drink milk anyway as it is higher in carbs...so that is not the issue for me as much as cheeses.... I understand what you say when you said that somewhere along the way you have stopped eating for enjoyment and now it's for survival....it is clearly no fun to be deprived of the elements of the fun meals that we used to enjoy. I have used Energie Egg replacement when baking when my grand daughter is over, but again, it has sugar....being diabetic I have to avoid that also. Thanks so much for your thoughtful response.
Hi Sunny,
LOL. Your, "She's soooo in denial!!!! ", expression, seems pretty accurate, and yes, most of us go through that stage. I was lucky, though, because I wasn't aware of any of this information when I made my trip. I wasn't aware of any discussion boards on the subject, and I wasn't aware of Enterolab. Consequently, even though I was keeping a "food diary", it took me a year and a half to convince myself that cutting out gluten wasn't enough, and dairy and corn would have to go, also. Once I finally convinced myself to make that change, remission became a reality within a couple of weeks.
Regarding the diet you mighty choose to follow, we all have to make our own decisions about that, depending on will power, lifestyle, and probably a few other things. Here is what I think: In order for your gut to completely heal, all the foods to which you are intolerant, will have to go. If you plan to take meds for the rest of your life, to control the MC, then it's possible that you might be able to tolerate some of those foods. IOW, your gut might not have to completely heal, in order to maintain remission. Gluten has the most potential to create damage. Gluten antibodies can be detected by a stool test, up to a full year after all gluten has been removed from the diet. For all other food intolerances, the respective antibodies can be reliably detected by a stool test for only a few weeks after the item is withdrawn from the diet. Based on that observation, I never, ever allow myself to take any chances, (to the best of my knowledge), on gluten, (unless I'm doing something such as the oat test that I did a year ago - but actually, that's avenin, not gluten), because of the risk of long-term damage to my gut. If I slip up on some other food intolerance, though, I don't worry so much about long-term damage. It might make me sick, but in a few days, I should be as good as new , and hopefully my gut will be none the worse for wear. Being sick is no fun, though, so it's a pretty good motivator, to help one stick to a diet. I'm sure everyone has his or her own opinion about what's involved, or at risk, with this issue, however.
Gloria,
Hopefully, after you're able to take control of your diet, (IOW, do your own cooking), your gut should have a chance to heal, and after a couple of years or so, (possibly sooner), you should be able to add a lot of those foods back into your diet, (except for the ones to which you are truly intolerant.
Tex
LOL. Your, "She's soooo in denial!!!! ", expression, seems pretty accurate, and yes, most of us go through that stage. I was lucky, though, because I wasn't aware of any of this information when I made my trip. I wasn't aware of any discussion boards on the subject, and I wasn't aware of Enterolab. Consequently, even though I was keeping a "food diary", it took me a year and a half to convince myself that cutting out gluten wasn't enough, and dairy and corn would have to go, also. Once I finally convinced myself to make that change, remission became a reality within a couple of weeks.
Regarding the diet you mighty choose to follow, we all have to make our own decisions about that, depending on will power, lifestyle, and probably a few other things. Here is what I think: In order for your gut to completely heal, all the foods to which you are intolerant, will have to go. If you plan to take meds for the rest of your life, to control the MC, then it's possible that you might be able to tolerate some of those foods. IOW, your gut might not have to completely heal, in order to maintain remission. Gluten has the most potential to create damage. Gluten antibodies can be detected by a stool test, up to a full year after all gluten has been removed from the diet. For all other food intolerances, the respective antibodies can be reliably detected by a stool test for only a few weeks after the item is withdrawn from the diet. Based on that observation, I never, ever allow myself to take any chances, (to the best of my knowledge), on gluten, (unless I'm doing something such as the oat test that I did a year ago - but actually, that's avenin, not gluten), because of the risk of long-term damage to my gut. If I slip up on some other food intolerance, though, I don't worry so much about long-term damage. It might make me sick, but in a few days, I should be as good as new , and hopefully my gut will be none the worse for wear. Being sick is no fun, though, so it's a pretty good motivator, to help one stick to a diet. I'm sure everyone has his or her own opinion about what's involved, or at risk, with this issue, however.
Gloria,
Hopefully, after you're able to take control of your diet, (IOW, do your own cooking), your gut should have a chance to heal, and after a couple of years or so, (possibly sooner), you should be able to add a lot of those foods back into your diet, (except for the ones to which you are truly intolerant.
Tex
Since Polly and I had identical genetic results from Enterolab, I've eliminated the same foods that she listed as intolerances. Some on this board have suggested that I eliminate some of the other foods. I've also been keeping a food diary since August and have tried to see a pattern.
I'm fortunate to get visits from Norman a few times a week. I've made note of the foods I ate the day before and I'm trying now to center my diet around those foods. In other words, rather than ponder which food to eliminate next, I'm now trying to restrict what I eat to those foods that seem to be easy on my gut. So far the approach is successful and I seem to have reactions only on the days that I eat a suspect food. Lately another clue that the food isn't agreeing with me is that my stomach begins to gurgle within a couple of hours or less.
You'll notice that I don't list any of these other foods on my intolerance list because I'm still not certain about them. The only foods on my list are the ones that have been verified by Enterolab (besides the Pepto-Bismol).
I'm fortunate to get visits from Norman a few times a week. I've made note of the foods I ate the day before and I'm trying now to center my diet around those foods. In other words, rather than ponder which food to eliminate next, I'm now trying to restrict what I eat to those foods that seem to be easy on my gut. So far the approach is successful and I seem to have reactions only on the days that I eat a suspect food. Lately another clue that the food isn't agreeing with me is that my stomach begins to gurgle within a couple of hours or less.
You'll notice that I don't list any of these other foods on my intolerance list because I'm still not certain about them. The only foods on my list are the ones that have been verified by Enterolab (besides the Pepto-Bismol).
You never know what you can do until you have to do it.
Sunny,
I am following your progress with great interest. Congrats on no more C. diff. That's terrific news! (Hear drum roll and trumpets!).
Re your enterolab casein results, Dr. Fine would tell you that there is no "degree" with regard to the numeral results. IOW, a higher value does not mean a greater reaction. It's like pregnancy - you either are or you're not - you can't be just a little bit pregnant! LOL! I think that any way you decide to tackle casein is fine. Some begin by just eliminating the more major sources, some go cold turkey. Whether you want to totally eliminate it is up to you. As Tex says, if you don't mind staying on medication indefinitely, then you may be able to tolerate it.
I'll give you my thinking on casein (not that you've asked for it - LOL). I think it's bizarre that humans are the only animals on the planet that drink milk after infancy. And certainly the only animals to drink the milk from another animal. I suspect that continued milk drinking may be responsible for some of our chronic diseases. In my case, it was the main cause of joint and muscle aches and pains. For years I had miserable neck and shoulder pains - especially upon awakening every morning. It was also getting harder to get moving overall every AM. I chalked it up to aging and an old whiplash injury. WRONG! Once I eliminated casein, it all disappeared. Also, I don't believe that dairy products are the best way to get calcium or vitamin D. We have been brainwashed throughour our lives by the dairy industry. A lot of people still believe the nonsense that you have to drink milk in order to have healthy bones and teeth. I wonder how many recall that being drilled into us when we used those free coloring books the industry gave to elementary schools?
Ooops, I'll get off my soapbox now. Anyway, I'm sure you'll figure out what works best for you.
Love,
Polly
I am following your progress with great interest. Congrats on no more C. diff. That's terrific news! (Hear drum roll and trumpets!).
Re your enterolab casein results, Dr. Fine would tell you that there is no "degree" with regard to the numeral results. IOW, a higher value does not mean a greater reaction. It's like pregnancy - you either are or you're not - you can't be just a little bit pregnant! LOL! I think that any way you decide to tackle casein is fine. Some begin by just eliminating the more major sources, some go cold turkey. Whether you want to totally eliminate it is up to you. As Tex says, if you don't mind staying on medication indefinitely, then you may be able to tolerate it.
I'll give you my thinking on casein (not that you've asked for it - LOL). I think it's bizarre that humans are the only animals on the planet that drink milk after infancy. And certainly the only animals to drink the milk from another animal. I suspect that continued milk drinking may be responsible for some of our chronic diseases. In my case, it was the main cause of joint and muscle aches and pains. For years I had miserable neck and shoulder pains - especially upon awakening every morning. It was also getting harder to get moving overall every AM. I chalked it up to aging and an old whiplash injury. WRONG! Once I eliminated casein, it all disappeared. Also, I don't believe that dairy products are the best way to get calcium or vitamin D. We have been brainwashed throughour our lives by the dairy industry. A lot of people still believe the nonsense that you have to drink milk in order to have healthy bones and teeth. I wonder how many recall that being drilled into us when we used those free coloring books the industry gave to elementary schools?
Ooops, I'll get off my soapbox now. Anyway, I'm sure you'll figure out what works best for you.
Love,
Polly
Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused.
- barbaranoela
- Emperor Penguin
- Posts: 5394
- Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 6:11 pm
- Location: New York
SUNNY---I was the COLD TURKEY trying to find out what was wrong with me---and totally *UN-INFORMED*
The only thing we came up with was that I was *lactose intolerant*-
I did the 4 hour test but didnt have the runs intil the NEXT day???
This really confused them----and
1. my retired GP was a schnook
2. the *X* GI was a total *schnook and a 1/2*and I stuck with him for awhile---until somebody *woke* me up--cus I had No-one to consult with--until a gal named Sally---found me--floundering on the internet---and this started my *learning* of the how --whats and what nots---and then of course Tex's regrouping of OUR WONDERFUL educated family unit --
3. my new GI in New York City was my salvation---
4. there wasnt much that I had to GIVE UP---my nutricitonist helped me with that---
5. now I can EAT IT ALL!!!!!!!
6. figure that one out---
So thats how I re-found my being~~~~
lottsa luck to U Sunny--U are a go-getter
luve Barbara
The only thing we came up with was that I was *lactose intolerant*-
I did the 4 hour test but didnt have the runs intil the NEXT day???
This really confused them----and
1. my retired GP was a schnook
2. the *X* GI was a total *schnook and a 1/2*and I stuck with him for awhile---until somebody *woke* me up--cus I had No-one to consult with--until a gal named Sally---found me--floundering on the internet---and this started my *learning* of the how --whats and what nots---and then of course Tex's regrouping of OUR WONDERFUL educated family unit --
3. my new GI in New York City was my salvation---
4. there wasnt much that I had to GIVE UP---my nutricitonist helped me with that---
5. now I can EAT IT ALL!!!!!!!
6. figure that one out---
So thats how I re-found my being~~~~
lottsa luck to U Sunny--U are a go-getter
luve Barbara
the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness and self-control
Wow! I just can't tell you how helpful it is to have these conversations and to hear some other opinions and experiences. I think that this is another of the real values that this board presents.
Barbara....what a neat story. How did you find your nutritionist? Glad you have such a great GI doc now.
Polly....thanx for your input. I have read the ideas about man being the only animal that continues with milk into adulthood...plus the milk from OTHER animals....altho I did see a news article about a mother dog nursing some abandoned kittens along with her litter of pups...but I digress!! I see how brainwashed I have been by the dairy industry!! But....I guess some rebellious part of me doe not want to really believe that, because I usually just think....uh, huh...whatever. I just love the by-products of milk...so that info probably doen't really count somehow....LOL!!! I loved your soapbox...no need to jump off it at all!!Thanx for the input.
Gloria, I can see how thoughtful your plan is...I have been keeping a food diary also, but I can see I need to be more inclusive of everything I put in my mouth and not just the major stuff. I understand a bit bettr about the food intolerances and food sensitivities....i've noticed a sensitivity one time and not the next, so it is hard to pin this stuff down. Thanx for your thoughts on all this.
Tex...nope! don't want any more meds to control this, so realize diet the best way to go. I think my denial is enhanced right now because i am in a very nice place of no symptoms no matter what I eat....at least for the pitiful amount of only 7 days... I see the gluten danger very clearly and after all the posts and other sources of info I get it. Knowing that some of the other intolerances may not contribute to long-term damage is helpful. I thankyou for the discussion as it does help me to not feel so sorry for myself I need to be sugar free and salt free and gluten free and dairy free ....seems too hard sometimes. On the other hand it is harder to have D multiple times a day and spend my life wearing depends!!!! So your comments have been thoughtful and truthful and helpfull as always. Thanx!!
Barbara....what a neat story. How did you find your nutritionist? Glad you have such a great GI doc now.
Polly....thanx for your input. I have read the ideas about man being the only animal that continues with milk into adulthood...plus the milk from OTHER animals....altho I did see a news article about a mother dog nursing some abandoned kittens along with her litter of pups...but I digress!! I see how brainwashed I have been by the dairy industry!! But....I guess some rebellious part of me doe not want to really believe that, because I usually just think....uh, huh...whatever. I just love the by-products of milk...so that info probably doen't really count somehow....LOL!!! I loved your soapbox...no need to jump off it at all!!Thanx for the input.
Gloria, I can see how thoughtful your plan is...I have been keeping a food diary also, but I can see I need to be more inclusive of everything I put in my mouth and not just the major stuff. I understand a bit bettr about the food intolerances and food sensitivities....i've noticed a sensitivity one time and not the next, so it is hard to pin this stuff down. Thanx for your thoughts on all this.
Tex...nope! don't want any more meds to control this, so realize diet the best way to go. I think my denial is enhanced right now because i am in a very nice place of no symptoms no matter what I eat....at least for the pitiful amount of only 7 days... I see the gluten danger very clearly and after all the posts and other sources of info I get it. Knowing that some of the other intolerances may not contribute to long-term damage is helpful. I thankyou for the discussion as it does help me to not feel so sorry for myself I need to be sugar free and salt free and gluten free and dairy free ....seems too hard sometimes. On the other hand it is harder to have D multiple times a day and spend my life wearing depends!!!! So your comments have been thoughtful and truthful and helpfull as always. Thanx!!
"It is very difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it. "
Upton Sinclair
Upton Sinclair
- barbaranoela
- Emperor Penguin
- Posts: 5394
- Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 6:11 pm
- Location: New York
Sunny---I did some checking around--and then a friend of mine recommended this nutrictionist--and I hit the jackpot with her---
This also helped me to control my very HIGH lipids---which the X-GP ALWAYS SAID *ACCEPTABLE*--
OH---also the X-GP had me on meds. for MVP--which I didnt have--even after-the many scans that I had done--proved he was misdiagnosing me??? Talk about being *stupid* that was ME then!!!!
I attribute my issues to all the years of taking *un-needed* meds--
When we met with our NEW GP--8 years back---he couldnt believe that both of our READINGS were acceptable--
I am aslo very fortunate to be the under the care of Dr. Kozen--(new GP) for the past 8 years~~~~ another *life-saver*
Yes---we have so many stories to read and keep our minds open to learning more and more~~~~
Take care--
luve Barbara
This also helped me to control my very HIGH lipids---which the X-GP ALWAYS SAID *ACCEPTABLE*--
OH---also the X-GP had me on meds. for MVP--which I didnt have--even after-the many scans that I had done--proved he was misdiagnosing me??? Talk about being *stupid* that was ME then!!!!
I attribute my issues to all the years of taking *un-needed* meds--
When we met with our NEW GP--8 years back---he couldnt believe that both of our READINGS were acceptable--
I am aslo very fortunate to be the under the care of Dr. Kozen--(new GP) for the past 8 years~~~~ another *life-saver*
Yes---we have so many stories to read and keep our minds open to learning more and more~~~~
Take care--
luve Barbara
the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness and self-control
Hi Sunny,
I just thought that I'd mention that dairy products also cause me to have joint aches and pains, as Polly mentioned. For me at least, it seems to take a long time for the symptoms to reach a level where they can't be overlooked, and after I cut dairy out of my diet, it takes a long time for the symptoms to totally subside, so it's easy to overlook the effect. IOW, a few days don't seem to matter much, it takes weeks for the change to be significant enough that there's no question about it. FWIW, I miss dairy much more than wheat. I think the dang stuff is addictive, or something. I don't miss milk, (hemp milk tastes better to me, anyway, now that I've "discovered" it, thanks to Dee bringing it to our attention a year or so ago), but I do miss cheese and ice cream, and, of course, milk and it's derivatives are in a lot of other products.
You probably already mentioned this, but I've forgotten, if you have - is your diabetes type I or II? The reason I'm asking is because I notice that you have the HLA-DQ8 gene, which, of course, is linked to type I.
Tex
I just thought that I'd mention that dairy products also cause me to have joint aches and pains, as Polly mentioned. For me at least, it seems to take a long time for the symptoms to reach a level where they can't be overlooked, and after I cut dairy out of my diet, it takes a long time for the symptoms to totally subside, so it's easy to overlook the effect. IOW, a few days don't seem to matter much, it takes weeks for the change to be significant enough that there's no question about it. FWIW, I miss dairy much more than wheat. I think the dang stuff is addictive, or something. I don't miss milk, (hemp milk tastes better to me, anyway, now that I've "discovered" it, thanks to Dee bringing it to our attention a year or so ago), but I do miss cheese and ice cream, and, of course, milk and it's derivatives are in a lot of other products.
You probably already mentioned this, but I've forgotten, if you have - is your diabetes type I or II? The reason I'm asking is because I notice that you have the HLA-DQ8 gene, which, of course, is linked to type I.
Tex
Yup...I will miss ice cream a lot!! I didn't realize there might be a connection between dairy and joint and muscle aches....that gives my state of mind ( in denial )some more facts to help it come out of denial!!!!Thanks for echoing Polly on that one. I have type 2 diabtes and control the numbers quite well with diet....I am in total disagreement with the ADA which says you can still have carbs....just use meds to compensate...I told the doc it makes no sense to eat something that will raise my sugars 40 or 50 points and then wait 4 hours for them to come down again...it's that fluctuation that is so bad for your body....I don't want to be on insulin if I can help it and so there's another reason why bread is out for me....that will raise my sugar 40 points for one piece of toast...not worth it...now about that hemp milk....isn't hemp related to marijuana? No wonder you are a happy camper!!!
"It is very difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it. "
Upton Sinclair
Upton Sinclair
Sunny,
I certainly agree with you. Regulating your blood sugar level by diet has to be far healthier than running it up, and then trying to lower it again with meds.
Yep, hempmilk is made from cannabis seeds, but it doesn't provide any of the "benefits" of smoking the leaves, (as far as I'm aware).
Tex
I certainly agree with you. Regulating your blood sugar level by diet has to be far healthier than running it up, and then trying to lower it again with meds.
Yep, hempmilk is made from cannabis seeds, but it doesn't provide any of the "benefits" of smoking the leaves, (as far as I'm aware).
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.