Hi all,
Have you been reading or hearing about the substance that's used to make non-stick coating for pots and pans, etc.? It's not new, but apparently EPA is still concerned about it.
I've been using a Circulon 13" coated grill pan for quite a while now. Seems as though one tends to switch over to grill pans once one uses them. Nice to have the food not sitting directly in fat while cooking.
Anyway, I wanted to leave off the non-stick surfaces for a while until the jury's completely in on whether they contribute to cancers, so I found a Caphalon version that's stainless over aluminum core (no non-stick coating), and used it to "grill" the first time last night.
Seemed to do just as well as the other one, and I just wiped it out a little afterwards and left it soaking. Don't think it's going to be hard to care for, really.
Was seriously considering purchasing a smaller caste iron grill pan, but it was soooo heavy it made my arm hurt just to pick it up. Do like the size for some things, however.
Welp, once again I'm falling asleep -- think it's the weather...unseasonably hot! Anyway, sure hope this makes sense cause can't keep the eyelids open.
Yours, Luce
Non-stick coating reports
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
Hi Luce,
If you're referring to polytetrafluoroethylene, (PTFE), coatings, (trade name, Teflon), be aware that the coatings are stable and safe at normal cooking temperatures. Back when I was at UT, I used PTFE in my research, so I am somewhat familiar with it.
Many studies have found that PTFE-coated pans must be heated to above 536°F to release toxic particles and fumes, in a reaction called “pyrolysis.” 536°F is a very high temperature, and is rarely reached during normal cooking. Most cooking in PTFE-coated cookware is performed at temperatures between 250° and 400°F. However, if a PTFE-coated pan is allowed to boil dry, or an unfilled pan is heated on HIGH, toxic fumes can result. PTFE-coated drip pans, (pans under the burners), will reach over 600°F, or higher, within minutes during normal use, because of their close proximity to the heating element of the burner.
After "Teflon" or other non-stick surfaces are scratched or damaged in any way, they are more susceptible to breakdown at lower temperatures.
If you have any birds in the house, it's very easy to tell whether any toxic fumes from PTFE are being released, since birds are highly sensitive to these gasses, and will perish, or display severe respiratory distress signs, at relatively low levels of toxicity. Never use PTFE-coated drip pans in a household with birds.
Humans, (and most other species), are also affected by these fumes, but not nearly so severely as birds. In people, the disease has flu-like symptoms and is known as "polymer fume fever." It's rarely fatal, although it can cause serious illness, especially in people with underlying respiratory disease.
I hope this sheds some light on the situation, without unnecessarily scaring anyone.
Tex
If you're referring to polytetrafluoroethylene, (PTFE), coatings, (trade name, Teflon), be aware that the coatings are stable and safe at normal cooking temperatures. Back when I was at UT, I used PTFE in my research, so I am somewhat familiar with it.
Many studies have found that PTFE-coated pans must be heated to above 536°F to release toxic particles and fumes, in a reaction called “pyrolysis.” 536°F is a very high temperature, and is rarely reached during normal cooking. Most cooking in PTFE-coated cookware is performed at temperatures between 250° and 400°F. However, if a PTFE-coated pan is allowed to boil dry, or an unfilled pan is heated on HIGH, toxic fumes can result. PTFE-coated drip pans, (pans under the burners), will reach over 600°F, or higher, within minutes during normal use, because of their close proximity to the heating element of the burner.
After "Teflon" or other non-stick surfaces are scratched or damaged in any way, they are more susceptible to breakdown at lower temperatures.
If you have any birds in the house, it's very easy to tell whether any toxic fumes from PTFE are being released, since birds are highly sensitive to these gasses, and will perish, or display severe respiratory distress signs, at relatively low levels of toxicity. Never use PTFE-coated drip pans in a household with birds.
Humans, (and most other species), are also affected by these fumes, but not nearly so severely as birds. In people, the disease has flu-like symptoms and is known as "polymer fume fever." It's rarely fatal, although it can cause serious illness, especially in people with underlying respiratory disease.
I hope this sheds some light on the situation, without unnecessarily scaring anyone.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Stovetop on "High" setting
Wayne,
What would the temp of the cookwear be if the setting were turned all the way up to the "high" setting?
What about "medium high," etc.?
Sometimes I like to turn the heat up high to sear the meat right at first, but don't want to overheat if I were to go back to using the coated pans. I'm not sure whether or not it's good for the coated pans to use oil of any kind, but it's not supposed to be necessary since it's non-stick.
Worst thing would be to use them for too long or to injure the surface. Would the surface be ruined if the heat were only turned on high while dry one time?
Vent/fan should take care of most of the fumes, but what about pan damage from that brief heating while dry?
Will be interesting to see how this story develops.
Thanks, Wayne!
Yours, Luce
What would the temp of the cookwear be if the setting were turned all the way up to the "high" setting?
What about "medium high," etc.?
Sometimes I like to turn the heat up high to sear the meat right at first, but don't want to overheat if I were to go back to using the coated pans. I'm not sure whether or not it's good for the coated pans to use oil of any kind, but it's not supposed to be necessary since it's non-stick.
Worst thing would be to use them for too long or to injure the surface. Would the surface be ruined if the heat were only turned on high while dry one time?
Vent/fan should take care of most of the fumes, but what about pan damage from that brief heating while dry?
Will be interesting to see how this story develops.
Thanks, Wayne!
Yours, Luce
Hi Luce,
For specific test results on three experiments designed to investigate exactly the question you raised, see this site:
http://www.ewg.org/reports/toxicteflon/toxicpans.php
IOW, it's possible for a dry pan to hit that temp range in roughly 3 to 5 minutes, depending on the size of the pan, and the output of the burner.
Note, however, that the tests were conducted with empty pans. When you have meat in the pan, obviously, it will take longer for the temperature to reach the level required for pyrolysis to occur. How much longer, depends on the amount of meat, its initial temperature, and how much moisture and/or fat it contains.
Note that as long as a pan contains any significant amount of liquid, the maximum temperature is limited to the boiling point of that liquid, (in the case of water, that is 212°F), by the basic laws of thermodynamics.
If oil is used, the boiling point will be much higher. Most cheap cooking oil is mostly soy oil, so the boiling point would be about 572°F. Note, however, that with oils, the smoke point is reached before the boiling point, and the smoke point for soy oil is about 495°F. Olive oil has the lowest smoke point, at around 375°F.
Therefore, if you see smoke rising from "vegetable oil", the temperature is in excess of 495°F, and approaching the phrolysis threshold. Once the oil is boiling, that threshold has been exceeded, and pyrolysis is taking place.
I have no idea what the temp excursions would be with your range set on "medium high"--that would depend on the unique calibration of your particular range.
"Dry" pans are the problem, as far as high temps are concerned, and on a good range, if the "experiment" is allowed to continue, temps can exceed 1000°F.
As far as damage to the non-stick surface is concerned, I have no idea what various ranges of temperature abuse will do to the non-stick capabilities of the surface, since that is definitely not a desirable mode of operation. In general, if you can smell plastic "burning", pyrolysis has occurred, or is occurring, and the process has entered the destructive phase.
Tex
For specific test results on three experiments designed to investigate exactly the question you raised, see this site:
http://www.ewg.org/reports/toxicteflon/toxicpans.php
IOW, it's possible for a dry pan to hit that temp range in roughly 3 to 5 minutes, depending on the size of the pan, and the output of the burner.
Note, however, that the tests were conducted with empty pans. When you have meat in the pan, obviously, it will take longer for the temperature to reach the level required for pyrolysis to occur. How much longer, depends on the amount of meat, its initial temperature, and how much moisture and/or fat it contains.
Note that as long as a pan contains any significant amount of liquid, the maximum temperature is limited to the boiling point of that liquid, (in the case of water, that is 212°F), by the basic laws of thermodynamics.
If oil is used, the boiling point will be much higher. Most cheap cooking oil is mostly soy oil, so the boiling point would be about 572°F. Note, however, that with oils, the smoke point is reached before the boiling point, and the smoke point for soy oil is about 495°F. Olive oil has the lowest smoke point, at around 375°F.
Therefore, if you see smoke rising from "vegetable oil", the temperature is in excess of 495°F, and approaching the phrolysis threshold. Once the oil is boiling, that threshold has been exceeded, and pyrolysis is taking place.
I have no idea what the temp excursions would be with your range set on "medium high"--that would depend on the unique calibration of your particular range.
"Dry" pans are the problem, as far as high temps are concerned, and on a good range, if the "experiment" is allowed to continue, temps can exceed 1000°F.
As far as damage to the non-stick surface is concerned, I have no idea what various ranges of temperature abuse will do to the non-stick capabilities of the surface, since that is definitely not a desirable mode of operation. In general, if you can smell plastic "burning", pyrolysis has occurred, or is occurring, and the process has entered the destructive phase.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Hmmmmmmm. Guess I'd better rethink my cooking methods. Whenever I need to saute something, like onions or green peppers, I put them in a pan with a little water until the water boils off, so that they become soft. Then I add olive oil and saute briefly. I guess the trick is to catch them the minute the water boils off. I would imagine that by the time the temp got high enough to cause problems, that the veggies would be burned up. I hope.
Love,
Polly
Love,
Polly
Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused.