More diet questions

[geargirl]

Hi all!

OK, so I started on the Paleo Diet after reading the book. The diet is an excellent diet and very common sens and I realize we should all have been eating this way from the beginning. However I will be the first to admit that I do love my chocolate, cakes and other goodies though. OK, so I went out and bought several different fruits and veggies. I have not even thought of eating fruits and veggies in so long thinking that they would set my stomach into an episode. Of course this was before I knew that there were other things that I was eating that I thought were "safe" at the same time. Needless to say I have had to completely rethink my woe. I have discovered that soy is in just about everything! After reading some of the posts on this board it sounds like soy lecithin can be just as much of a trigger. This pains me dearly since I have found some chocolate that has none of the other triggers but always has soy lecithin. (sigh) I am still having problem but have to remember what Tex had said earlier, that it can take a while to rid the body completely of the items that I have been consuming (not in those exact words). Once again thinking that they were safe to eat I was consuming them freely!!!!. Soooooo, the question is, will my body eventually get used to this new woe? I have taken the basic principals of the Paleo Diet and kinda fudged a bit. I am trying to eat all non processed foods however I have found that I needed a small treat ever now and then to get me by. I found a cookie last night at Whole Foods that is not half bad! It is Nana's out of California (Healthycrowd.com/800-836-7534) I bought the chocolate and ginger cookie. They are moist and have a good texture imho. They have no eggs, gf, no refined sugars, dairy and soy. It does have xanthan gum in it but as far as I can tell that is not a soy product correct? So a couple of other questions, will it take a while for my body to adjust to the new woe. If you all eat a trigger food how does it affect you? Do you find that you have problems for just one episode or are you like me and it seems to last for a while? Just trying to still figure it all out. I have discovered that there a couple of things that I am not giving up. Salt and sugar! I salt my food and will put sugar on my strawberries. I have not added rice yet but I am in the future. I have resorted to drinking Hemp milk as well. I sure do miss my soy milk! All in all, I am just wanting to be sure that I am making the right changes. Are others on the Paleo Diet and if so, how strict are you? I can't wait to feel good again! Thanks again to all.

Geargirl

[tex]

Hi Geargirl,

It sounds as though you are off to a pretty good start. You may have to be a little careful with some of the fruit and veggies at first, (until your gut has a chance to heal), but in the long run, they will be okay, just don't overdo them at first, (too much fiber can be a real problem), and always cook them well, (after your intestines heal, you'll be able to more easily handle raw fruit and vegetables again).

Soy-free chocolate is not easy to find, but it is available. Enjoy life chocolate chips are safe, (of course those are small chips, suitable mostly for baking). One of our members had trouble with a brand that contained soy, even though it was not on the label, (Lindt, I believe). She finally tracked down a brand that was actually safe. Of course, that was three years ago, so be sure to check the label, if you are interested in this, in case it has changed. Anyway, she describes it in this post:

http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewt ... +chocolate

Here is the situation with duration of reactions. Normally, the first time that MC is triggered, D will be continuous, until the offending item/s is/are removed from the diet, (unless you are using meds to control it, of course). It takes time for the gut to heal, so if you have been reacting for a while, considerable damage may have accrued, and it will take a while for your intestines to heal, usually somewhere between a few weeks and five or six months, but for some of us, it can take a year or longer. Once you achieve remission, and your gut has mostly healed, if you accidentally eat a trigger food, you will normally experience symptoms anywhere from a few hours to a few days, but the duration will be relatively short, unless you continue to eat the problem food. About a year and a half ago, for example, I did a test with oats, and it took six weeks of eating it for the D to start, but once it started, it continued, off and on, for about six weeks before it stopped completely. A week or so later, I ate oats again, (only one time), but this time, since my gut had healed, the D lasted only for about half a day. I repeated that one week later, (IOW ate it one time), and had exactly the same result, D for only about half a day.

Xanthan gum does not contain soy. It derives its name from the strain of bacteria used during the fermentation process, Xanthomonas campestris. When these bacteria are combined with corn sugar, the result is a colorless slime called xanthan gum. Xanthan gum is a long chain polysacharide, (similar to cornstarch), composed of the sugars glucose, mannose, and glucuronic acid, (all of which are present in corn sugar). It shouldn't be a problem for you, even if you are intolerant to corn.

There are a number of members who follow the paleo diet, but unfortunately, most of them do not post very often these days, though they do check in on a somewhat regular basis, (some more often than others, obviously). Most of them don't always follow a "pure" paleo diet, (these days, that's virtually impossible, anyway, since most species that comprise paleo food sources have changed somewhat from their original forms during paleo times), but still, these members do a pretty good job of adhering to a modern version of the paleo diet, and there's no question that it is probably the healthiest diet that we can eat. Anyway, rest assured that no one is going to scream "Foul", if you modify the diet a bit to suit your own purposes. You will probably want to modify it and fine-tune your own version of the diet as you go, anyway.

Some of the members who follow the paleo diet include Polly, Matthew, Joanna, (harvest_table), and Karen, (moremuscle). Gloria and Carrie's husband Rick, are probably following a diet pretty close to Paleo. There may be some others, who don't come to mind right now. You can read some of their past discussions in the following forum:

http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=27

I have a hunch that the paleo people probably did like many animals in the wild - I'll bet they knew where most "salt licks", (natural salt deposits at the soil surface), were located, and they visited those sites from time to time. While they didn't have sugar, they did have honey, and you can bet that they "pigged out" on it, whenever they could find it.


If you have any questions for those members on the paleo diet, you might try a post in that forum, and if they happen to peek out of their caves, they might notice it and respond. Sometimes it takes a while to get a response, though, if they're out foraging for paleo food. LOL.

Tex

[JLH]

We need to make the trip to Birmingham to visit Whole Foods. I'll look for Nana's.

The Enjoy Life chocolate chips are micro mini but good. They don't seem to agree with me right now, though. I hate being chocolate free.

[angy]

whats the paleo diet tex...cant be bothered looking on the net lol!!!! i know you will explain it better hehe!!

[tex]

Angy,

The paleo diet is what our ancestors had to eat from roughly two and a half million years ago ,up until somewhere between forty thousand and twelve thousand years ago, (depending on their location), when the mesolithic period began, and a transition toward agriculture began. The Paleolithic period is sometimes referred to as the "old" stone age, and the mesolithic period is called the "new" stone age. By roughly twelve thousand to ten thousand years ago, the neolithic period was well under way, and this the period of our history when agriculture was developed, and humans completed the transition from a nomadic hunter-gatherer lifestyle, to an agrarian lifestyle, and began living permanently in villages and cities.

IOW, the paleo diet is a hunter-gatherer diet, based on whatever the wandering nomadic tribes of that period could find to eat in the wild. All the grains and dairy products were not developed until the neolithic period. In fact, dairy products probably were not available in any significant amount until the bronze age began, about five thousand years ago.

IOW, we've eaten paleo foods for millions of years, but grains and milk have been a part of the human diet for only a few thousand years, which amounts to only a tiny blip, in the time scale of human history.

Tex

[angy]

I see..caveman diet....no pizza then lol!! thanks for that tex...

[tex]

Right! Definitely no pizza.

You're most welcome,
Tex

[geargirl]

Thanks again Tex for all of the good information. JLH, I am on the hunt for the Enjoy Life Choco Chips! I just need a little chocolate to tide me over on those "gotta have some" days. lol.

I feel that I am pretty much on the right track with the Paleo Diet and am indeed making some exceptions. Not a lot but some. I am keeping the ingredients as basic as possible if I do fudge. I actually do think that I am seeing some improvement but am not sure if that is due to the Entocort or the diet or both. I am pleased however with my improvement. Although the consistancy of my stool is not like it should be (borderline D) I am going less often and the urgency is not a great.

Now that I know what kinda of chocolate to look for I have one other item that I need to replace.....butter!!! I miss it terribly too....almost as much as chocolate. I have done some looking and I know that Whole Foods used to carry rice butter but they don't any longer. I have spoken with the dairy manager and they are going to look into it again. I have done some searching on the forum in the diet section and read about Ghee. I see that it is made from butter so is it safe or if it is why??? What do others use for butter substitutes??? Other than the new butter question I think that I am doing ok. I am still getting used to my new woe and know that I am healthier for it. That is always a plus.

Thanks again for all of the help. This new family has been a lifesaver!

On a side note. I have to share some good news. I just found out that my son is coming home for R&R on or around November 15th! It will be so good to see him again. Even though he has not been gone that long (June 26th) I an anxious to just see him and give him a hug and know he is safe even if it is just for a little while. It will be hard to let him go again. But the next time he comes home...it will be for good.

Geargirl

[tex]

Geargirl,

You're very welcome. Any improvement is good news, regardless of the reason.

Ghee is an old Hindu, (Ayurvedic), development, that is claimed to provide a way for followers of certain religions to be able to eat butter, without violating a pledge to avoid eating animal products, but if you start with a product that is composed of only butter, and add nothing, then no matter what you do to it, how could the end result be anything but some derivative of butter? IOW, how could it be anything other than a dairy product of some type?

Basically, the process involves boiling certain impurities out of the butter, and filtering out the solids, (or most of the solids, anyway), with cheesecloth, or some other similar filtering material. The clear liquid that is left is known as ghee. When I tried it, I reacted to it, and so did one or two others who tried it, who were intolerant of dairy products. It's certainly possible that you might be able to tolerate it, though, especially while taking Entocort.

Most of us who are dairy-sensitive, use olive oil, or some other oil, in place of butter. You can get coconut butter, (also known as coconut oil). At one time, canola margarine was available, but about the time I discovered it, a couple of years ago, it was discontinued, and I believe the replacement product, (in tubs, rather than sticks), contains soy.

That's great news that your son is coming home for a visit. Maybe you'll be able to celebrate Thanksgiving with him.

Thanks for the update

Tex

[geargirl]

I have good news!!! I found the Life is Good Choco chips!!!! That took care of my chocolate craving!!! So that is out of the way. I found an item that I was not really looking for but an SO pleased to have found. Ice Cream!!! It is called NadaMoo (www.nadamoo.com). Appropriately named! It is currently available mainly in Austin but you can put in a request for it to be store near you per their website. I found it at Central Market. The taste is excellent. (I realize this is not on the Paleo diet but it helps when the craving hits) Ice cream ingredients are: coconut milk, organic agave nectar, organic brown rice, organic chicory root, organic vanilla extract, organic vanilla bean, carrageenan, organic guar gum, sea salt. I think that covers all of of the no gluten, dairy, egg and soy. I am thrilled with my find. I hope that others can enjoy it as well. Now Tex, I am confused, again, and need some help. I was at Whole Foods in search of a butter substitute still. (I want butter for my cream of rice) and I read the label on the Ghee product that they have in the dairy section. It specifically says, "casein free" and I believe lactose free as well. Now, I totally agree with what you said before.....

but if you start with a product that is composed of only butter, and add nothing, then no matter what you do to it, how could the end result be anything but some derivative of butter? IOW, how could it be anything other than a dairy product of some type?

So I am totally confused now. Or should I stop trying to understand it and just go with the flow? lol. Does the score on the Enterolab results indicate severity or just that the body is reacting? My dairy score was 10.

Well it is back to the kitchen for a couple more choco chips before bedtime! Thanks again for all the help.

And yes......Thanksgiving with my son and family will be a true Thanksgiving this year!

Geargirl

[tex]

That ice cream was definitely a great find, especially if it actually tastes like good ice cream. Don't let the fact that it's not a paleo diet item bother you. Everyone needs a little treat, that they can look forward to, now and then, so as long as it doesn't cause you to react, go for it.

Theoretically, a score of 10 on Enterolab's casein test is definitely a positive test result. Based on what I have seen in his writings, I'm confident that Dr. Fine would say that there are no degrees of intolerance, either you are intolerant of an item, or you are not. Furthermore, many experts claim that for someone who is gluten sensitive, one molecule of gluten is as toxic as ten thousand. All of that is true, of course, but I disagree with the implications.

My formal education was in engineering, (UT), not medicine, and one thing I learned in engineering, is that there are no absolutes, (from a mathematical viewpoint). In fact, there is an infinite range of possibilities. Therefore, contrary to these claims about sensitivities being absolute, there does indeed exist a range of responses, because the fact of the matter is, we are definitely not all equally sensitive to any given allergen. Some of us have a higher, (or lower), threshold at which our reactions are triggered, when compared with other individuals. Putting it another way, it takes more gluten to make some of us react, than it does others. The same applies to other food allergens. Remember, though, we are talking about very tiny amounts here. IOW, if we consider normal size helpings of a food, then yes, either we are intolerant of it, or we are not. However, if we are talking about very tiny amounts of that same food, then some of us may react to a certain tiny quantity, while others can handle two or three times as much, without reacting to it.

So what does that mean? It means that unless you are very sensitive to casein, you just might be able to tolerate ghee. The fact that your casein test result was 10, suggests to me that it's certainly possible that you might be less sensitive to casein than someone with a higher score. After all, if that result had been only one digit lower, at 9, you would have been proclaimed to be free of a casein intolerance, and for all we know, a retest might have yielded a "9".

So, if a butter substitute means that much to you, then I would suggest that you try ghee. As long as you don't go "hog-wild", and eat a lot of it, with every meal, it probably won't cause any problems. If it does, then stop using it.

At least, that's the way I see it.

Tex

[RUBYREDDOG]

Geargirl, Wonderful news concerning the return of your son for his r&r. Give him an extra long hug from all of us.

I support all of our troops and give $ to this wonderful charity.

http://www.dogtagsforkids.com/

Hotrod

[geargirl]

Thanks Tex once again for making it much more clear. I know I got carried away with my wish for butter of some kind and realize that I should just count myself lucky that I now know what my triggers are. I walked around for the longest time thinking I was eating the right foods when in fact I was only doing a small part and it is now so clear as to why I was never getting stable or better for that matter. If and when I come to the point of being 100% stable (if there is such a thing), then and only then I will try the Ghee. That way I will know if it is working against me. Right now I am still fine tuning and learning. I am not going as often and more regular which is a HUGE improvement. I am however still tired and often just don't feel well. I don't think that I am getting enough protein and that is part of the problem so I am working on that. I so appreciate all of your good information.

Rubyreddog....I promise to give my son an extra long hug from all of you. Thank you and everyone for their support of our troops. It means so much to them. What a cool organization to contribute to! Those smiles say it all.

Geargirl

[geargirl]

Just a little follow up..... Whole Foods carries the Nada Moo ice cream. Enjoy!



Geargirl

[tex]

Hmmmmmm. I'll have to check that out, if I ever get to a WF store. Unfortunately, there aren't any around here.

Thanks,
Tex