Food rotation

Discuss issues related to multiple intolerances here.

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manonash
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Food rotation

Post by manonash »

I've heard that it is best to rotate the foods we eat and not eat the same things day in and day out. I'm bad about doing this. I tend to take a food I like and eat it for days. If we do need to rotate the foods we tolerate, how many days do we need to avoid a food after we have eaten it? I think this may be especially important for me, because I know I have multiple food allergies and don't want to develop more to the foods I'm not currently allergic too and having to restrict my diet further.
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Post by Polly »

Hi Shonda (is this correct? - I noticed that Tex used this name!)

I really do think that rotation makes a lot of sense. There is an excellent book that discusses this and also has a terrific listing of all of the foods in the different food families. (It is important to know food families in order to be able to rotate sucessfully). It is "The Allergy Self-Help Cookbook" by Marjorie Hurt Jones, R.N. There are also 350 recipes free of the major allergens. Last copyright is 2001 -perhaps you can find it at amazon for a good price.

Love,

Polly

P.S. Usually 3-4 days is recommended between food families. I hear you - I tend to eat the same thing day after day too. I have invested in a lot of different-sized plastic freezer containers, so I try to save leftovers for later in the week!
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manonash
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Post by manonash »

Doh, sorry about not signing my post. Yes, my name is Shonda. Thanks for your reply Polly.

I actually think my mom may have a copy of that book. I had forgotten all about it. I'll see if she still has it. My Mom also had (and I suspect still does) multiple food allergies. She was diagnosed with some several years ago and after abstaining from those things for a while, her allergies to them disappeared and she just traded her old ones for new ones. She's probably going to go do the same testing as I'm doing. She'll get these episodes of what seems like gastroparesis. Her GI told her it was probably structural from the adhesions that may have formed after her colon resection, but I'm not so sure. If it were structural I would think the problem would be more repeatable and less intermittent. I think there's a possibility that it's food allergies causing it and that she can't put her finger on it because it could have been something she ate 3 days ago. That's one of the things that makes IgG allergies harder to pin down is they can take up to 72hrs to manifest. And, they don't always show as sniffing and drainage and outside swelling... they can show as abdominal cramps, esophogeal spasms, vomiting and cyclic vomiting, and a myriad of other things. I want her to get biopsied for MC too, but she's not due for another colonoscopy for nearly 2 yrs. She just did hers a couple of months ago.

Thanks for the info on food families. That makes sense too. I need to learn those. I'm wondering about nuts. For the ones I do tolerate would I need to just eat different nuts each day or only eat nuts of any kind evey 4 days? I need a portable source of protein and didn't know of aything except nuts and jerky. I wasn't sure if "tree nuts" was a family. The only ones I'm familiar with are nightshades, curcurbits, and brassicas. I also wonder would I need to rotate as far apart those botanical families that didn't tend to become allergens as easily.

I think the storage containers is a great idea. I've got this vision in my head of a really organized freezer with everything labeled and easy to grab. I want things that I can grab and run out with too. I don't want to have to work too hard every time I'm going out for the day.
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Post by Courtney »

Hi Polly and Shonda,

I am the same way with foods I like, especially at breakfast. I'll hit on one thing I like and eat it for months...sometimes years, as in the case of my beloved Health Valley Rice Crunch-ems. (Alas, despite the name, they are not GF).

Shonda, you mentioned esophageal spasms as one symptom of IgG allergies, and I'm wondering if I could possibly be having those. Occasionally, I feel like someone is squeezing my throat, and I'm wondering if it could be one of those delayed reactions, because I can't put my finger on what I could have eaten to cause it. What are esophogeal spasms like? I have to say, I'm not really familiar with IgG food allergy concept. Could you explain it a little or direct me somewhere I could read about it?

Love,

Courtney
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Post by Polly »

Hi Shonda,

You were wondering about rotating nuts. Nuts fall into different families like so:

*Beech Family.....chestnut and beechnut
*Birch Family......filbert or hazelnut
*Brazil Nut Family.....Brazil nut
*Cashew Family.....cashew and pistachio (believe it or not, the mango is also in this family!)
*Macadamia Family....macadamia nuts
*Plum Family....almond
*Walnut Family......black/English walnuts, butternut, hickory nut, pecan

Of course, the peanut is REALLY different from the tree nuts and comes from the Legume Family.

Hope this helps.

Love,

Polly
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manonash
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Post by manonash »

Hi Courtney.

My mom had the esophogeal spasms and she said it would start like the feeling she had this huge bubble forming in the center of her chest and that if she could just have this HUGE burp, she would feel fine. This feeling would just get worse and feel like pressure in the middle of her chest. It would last several hours before easing up, and no painkiller would touch it. I have had milder versions of this, but never to the degree that she did. When she was having them, they thought it was her gallbladder (she did have stones and had it removed) but that wasn't it. Not too long after she had her round of food allergy testing (traditional back/arm test) she stopped having them.

I will try to explain a little about the IgG food sensitivity, but I'm kinda foggy myself on it. All I know is that the test was very beneficial for my daughter, and I'm hoping it will be just a helpful for me. I think it's going to be, because the results of my first round did make sense, and the ones that showed up were foods I have been eating a lot of or had at one time in the past.

Ok, here goes muddy :lol: :
I was looking up IgG sensitivities last night to try to find a link for you. Seems there is WAY more controversy over this test than I knew about. It is not very well accepted because they haven't been able to produce reliable results from the testing, mostly stemming from variability from lab to lab in reproducibility and no accepted reference ranges. I have seen a couple of references that it did help people with IBS, but not people with other allergic type reactions (skin, etc), but have no idea if this is true or not. Some say we may all develop IgG reactions to much of our foods, even high levels of some, and have no discernable "allergic" reaction to them making those reactions clinically insignificant. The problem lies in determining when a high level indicates a problem and when is it fine. Also, different labs have different ideas of what normal is, so there is no accepted normal range. So, to some degree the IgG responses MAY be normal, but they just don't know. But it may also be that there is a pathologic thing going on with high levels that are producing no symptoms or the people that they are studying just don't report the symptoms because they feel they aren't relevant. Anyway...
:
IgG stands for immunoglobulin G. There are 5 isotypes of immunoglobulin: A, D, E, G, and M. There are subclasses of some of them or all of them; I don't remember that much detail. IgG is basically a second responder if I understand it correctly. IgM does its thing and that signals the body to produce an IgG response. I could be soooooooooooo wrong here. Anyway, it makes up a large portion of our immune responses. Some are arguing that the IgG4 subtype may actually be a beneficial response in that it combines with antigens to prevent IgE allergies from forming (those are generally the fast acting life threatening kind). I have no idea.

I do have first hand experience though that the test worked for my daughter. I mentioned this in another thread, but I'll put it here too. She was diagnosed with cyclic vomiting syndrome last year. We put her through all sorts of tests to rule out other things. When nothing showed up, the diagnosis was cyclic vomiting syndrome. Symptoms were that about once every 2wks or so, she would wake up at about 2 in the morning and start vomiting. She would continue for 2-4hours and get really lethargic. The next day she would be fine. She would also often at night have a fairly slow heartrate with some skipped beats and some apnea type behaviors (neither in the dangerous range, just not optimal). As far as they can tell, CVS is basically an abdominal migraine, and is usually treated with migraine meds). I knew that often migraines can be triggered by food sensivities, so I decided I would have them draw blood and test some foods while they were doing her other bloodwork. (I had to get her ped to order the test because her GI refused). I was wondering about tomatoes and bananas because most of the time she did this, there were tomatoes or bananas in her diet and in the vomit. Sure enough, tomatoes and bananas were thru the roof on the IgG test. We removed them from her diet and she hasn't thrown up since, her nocturnal heart rate is steady and normal, and no more funny breathing. So, naturally I believe this test has some value.
Can I say this is accurate for everyone? No, I can't. But, I'm giving it a shot in my case. Worse thing that is going to happen is I remove a few more foods from my diet and learn to rotate the ones I have. But, if the test works, then it will give me a leg up on finding my sensitivies and maybe take me less time to determine the ones that aren't necessarily immune mediated, because if I can remove the ones that are immune mediated from my diet then the others will show themselves more quickly possibly. That is my hope, anyway.

This question has prompted me to do some reading about IgG and how it relates to the other immunoglobulins. So hopefully over the next few days I'll know more. I'm hoping Polly or Tex know something about this, too and can maybe help me out with this. I'm such a newbie figuring out all this stuff. I feel like I may be spouting off about something and don't know what I'm talking about. Maybe this test isn't all that valuable; I don't know. The results I got back did make sense and it worked for my daughter, but some are saying that even though there are IgG sensitivities that the test cannot indicate what constitutes an allergy and what doesn't. I do know that food sensivities can cause all sorts of symptoms, but whether or not those are caused by IgG reactions.... no clue. So I may have misspoke about that.

One thing I am curious about too is that when I got the results back for me, the nurse told me they could have sera made to give me allergy shots for this stuff. I said nope, but after something I read last night I'm curious.... can they make an effective allergy shot for an IgG allergy? I thought that the way allergy shots worked was by creating and IgG response to the IgE-allergen complex. I may not be understanding that correctly though. According to hubby who had allergy shots for years for insects bites/stings, his doc said they don't really know how the allergy shots work.


And now for something completely different... :lol:
I wonder do we get addicted to foods we are allergic to? If so, why? It seems that some of the ones that showed up my list are ones I crave and want to eat more of.

Polly, my Mom did have the cookbook. It's the older version, but I looked it over anyway. There are some pretty good looking recipes that I can use in there. About 1/2 or so are SCD legal, and I got some new ideas for some things from there. The food family thing was awesome! It is overwhelming to think of trying to rotate the families though. I have a hard enough just coming up with menus without having to take that into account. I'm not a very good meal planner :lol: .
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Post by tex »

Hi Shonda,

I'm like your hubby's doc - I have to plead ignorance. I don't understand why/how allergy shots work,either, so I'm afraid I can't be much help in this discussion. I will say that based on the quick response times that some of us have to certain foods, some of us are probably not only intolerant of those foods, but also allergic to them. Whether or not the results of skin tests are applicable to GI system responses is a good question, but I don't know what the correct answer might be.

While it is true that our external epithelium, (skin), has many characteristics in common with our internal epithelium, (intestinal epithelia, for example), many of the functional characteristics are quite dissimilar, especially since our intestinal epithelium has the huge job of housing our digestive apparatus, and it must maintain a proper level of permeability, to allow the transfer of certain chemicals into the lumen, and certain nutrients out, while trying to exclude everything else. The skin, of course, does exude water,oil, and certain compounds, (such as salt), but other than the absorption of sunlight, for the production of vitamin D, virtually any other element/chemical that is absorbed through the skin, amounts to a toxin, and probably shouldn't be absorbed, but the skin is not sophisticated enough to keep it out, and it tends to absorb all sorts of bad stuff that the internal organs subsequently have to deal with. IOW, our internal epithelia seem to be much more sophisticated than their external counterpart. From that, I would infer that our internal epithelia may well be capable of much better discrimination of what they will normally allow to be transferred across their boundaries, than our skin, but that's just conjecture, of course. If that were true, it would imply that just because our skin will absorb and react to an allergen, does not mean that our internal epithelia would do the same. At any rate, the chemistry involved, is obviously different, between external and internal epitheila. Obviously, though, this all breaks down when MC strikes, and the leaky gut syndrome enters the picture, because the ability of the intestinal epithelium to discriminate, becomes highly compromised, in that situation.

I can, however, effectively respond to your question about "craving our intolerances". It has been demonstrated that the brain responds to certain foods in a way similar to the way it responds to certain addictive drugs.
Finally there are the foods that can cause intolerance in the body: wheat, sugar and dairy products.

As we ingest food to which we are intolerant, the body has an addictive stress reaction. Endorphins are released giving a rush of adrenaline, but these short-lived highs lead to cravings for more of the same food.

If you are suffering from the symptoms of food intolerance you may be addicted to certain foods. If you think this is the case, keep a food diary listing what you eat for breakfast, lunch, snacks and evening meals.

If you find you are eating a lot of one type of food you may be able to identify your addiction, then go on to eliminate that food from your diet.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... ction.html

You may also be interested in this article, since it supports the IgG theory, though I have to admit that as far as food intolerances are concerned, I'm not totally convinced that it's the greatest discovery since the "invention" of sliced bread:

http://www.drmostovoy.com/FOODS_MAKING_YOU_SICK.htm

Note however, that despite the name of the website domain, and all the capital letters displayed following the author's name, I don't see the letters M.D., nor Ph.D., listed among them. Hmmmmmm. So what do all those letters listed there mean, anyway?

The stool tests that Enterolab uses, yield results that are demonstrably several orders of magnitude higher than any other tests available, (bar none), and they are all based on IgA antibodies. Of course, the key here is that the tests are performed on samples taken from the areas where antibody production is actually occurring. Blood is a very poor choice of medium, for detecting antibodies that result from an adverse reaction due to the digestion of food. Blood mostly carries the good stuff that results from the digestion of food, (i.e., nutrients). Obviously, most of the bad stuff goes with the stool, (including various undigested compounds, toxins, and most of the antibodies).

Anyway, those are my thoughts, FWIW, and obviously, they're nothing more than my own opinion, so please don't feel that they imply any credibility beyond that, because they don't.

Tex
:cowboy:

It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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Post by Courtney »

Wow! I learn so much on this board. You people are amazing. :wink: Thank you, Tex and Shonda, for those explanations.

Shonda, as with so many things relating to MC, I think it is a case of YMMV as regards the controversy. We are all so different. I'm so glad that the testing worked for your daughter, and I hope you will have excellent results as well.

I'm sure that my throat issue is related to something I ate--come to think of it, I have had this issue before. I will just have to keep trying to figure it out.

Love,

Courtney
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