I was doing a bit of googling and happened across this rather interesting article from the US Food and Drug Administration on labeling of gluten free foods. It is the transcript from a 2005 meeting and is rather loooong.
It gives a really good explanation on how contamination of oats can happen, and on what some manufacturers do to ensure their product is gluten free.
http://www.foodsafety.gov/~dms/glutran.html
Lyn
USFDA on gluten labelling
Moderators: Rosie, Stanz, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
Lyn,
You weren't exaggerating when you said it was looooong.
Oats are an interesting item, especially to people who can't eat wheat. I grew up on a farm, (and still live there), and I can guarantee that wheat-free oats are mostly a figment of people's imagination, in most areas of the world. It sounds good in theory, but in the real world, it is virtually impossible to achieve. The reason is that even if wheat is not grown in the immediate area, birds and animals carry seed in, from miles away, as they pass through, (or overhead). Also, wheat seed blows off vehicles passing near oat fields, or falls off with mud on tires, and later sprouts, along with the oats that is planted there. Harvesting equipment is virtually impossible to completely clean, internally, because of all the nooks and crannies that are inaccessible, and grain storage facilities are major sources of cross-contamination, as mentioned in the report. The clincher comes in the fact that cleaning equipment designed to clean oats, cannot separate out wheat seeds with 100% reliability. That makes truly wheat-free oats, a pretty tall order, at best, and a disaster, at worst.
Over the years, this farm has grown many, many acres of both oats and wheat. I have grain storage facilities, where I store oats and wheat every year, and I have a seed cleaning plant, where I used to clean a lot of oats and wheat for seed, and many other types of seed, but these days, I only clean corn. In all honesty, I don't see how anyone in this country, could claim that they have truly pure oats. And, if that's the case, then how could anyone in some other part of the world make that claim?
Also, personally, I think that a lot more people are intolerant of the protein avenin in pure oats, than is commonly believed, because it takes much longer to build up an intolerance to oats, and most "official" trials don't last long enough. I did an oat "challenge" a couple of years ago, using certified pure oats, and for 3 or 4 weeks, I had no problems with it. By the end of 6 weeks, though, I was reacting to it every time I ate it, (major D, several hours later), and then intermittent D lasted for about 6 weeks after I stopped eating oats.
One of the big problems with the U. S. FALCPA legislation, is that it does not require ingredients containing barley or rye to be listed on labels, (although some companies do list them voluntarily). Many, many foods, (especially things like breakfast cereals), contain barley malt, which definitely has to be avoided with the GF diet.
At one time, McCann's, (McCann's Irish Oats), was the hero of celiacs who were oat lovers, because their oats were certified to be pure, and gluten-free, but after independent testing found their products to be way out of compliance, (several hundred parts per million of gluten), look at what their website says now:
http://www.mccanns.ie/pages/faq.html
0.05% is 500 parts per million, and the Codex Alimentarius standard for gluten-free certification is 20 parts per million, (which is 0.002%). IOW, their oats may contain up to 25 times as much wheat gluten as they originally claimed it did.
Personally, I believe that anyone who is sensitive to gluten, should steer clear of any oats, until they've been in remission long enough that they can give oats a careful trial, before deciding to eat it regularly.
Tex
You weren't exaggerating when you said it was looooong.
Oats are an interesting item, especially to people who can't eat wheat. I grew up on a farm, (and still live there), and I can guarantee that wheat-free oats are mostly a figment of people's imagination, in most areas of the world. It sounds good in theory, but in the real world, it is virtually impossible to achieve. The reason is that even if wheat is not grown in the immediate area, birds and animals carry seed in, from miles away, as they pass through, (or overhead). Also, wheat seed blows off vehicles passing near oat fields, or falls off with mud on tires, and later sprouts, along with the oats that is planted there. Harvesting equipment is virtually impossible to completely clean, internally, because of all the nooks and crannies that are inaccessible, and grain storage facilities are major sources of cross-contamination, as mentioned in the report. The clincher comes in the fact that cleaning equipment designed to clean oats, cannot separate out wheat seeds with 100% reliability. That makes truly wheat-free oats, a pretty tall order, at best, and a disaster, at worst.
Over the years, this farm has grown many, many acres of both oats and wheat. I have grain storage facilities, where I store oats and wheat every year, and I have a seed cleaning plant, where I used to clean a lot of oats and wheat for seed, and many other types of seed, but these days, I only clean corn. In all honesty, I don't see how anyone in this country, could claim that they have truly pure oats. And, if that's the case, then how could anyone in some other part of the world make that claim?
Also, personally, I think that a lot more people are intolerant of the protein avenin in pure oats, than is commonly believed, because it takes much longer to build up an intolerance to oats, and most "official" trials don't last long enough. I did an oat "challenge" a couple of years ago, using certified pure oats, and for 3 or 4 weeks, I had no problems with it. By the end of 6 weeks, though, I was reacting to it every time I ate it, (major D, several hours later), and then intermittent D lasted for about 6 weeks after I stopped eating oats.
One of the big problems with the U. S. FALCPA legislation, is that it does not require ingredients containing barley or rye to be listed on labels, (although some companies do list them voluntarily). Many, many foods, (especially things like breakfast cereals), contain barley malt, which definitely has to be avoided with the GF diet.
At one time, McCann's, (McCann's Irish Oats), was the hero of celiacs who were oat lovers, because their oats were certified to be pure, and gluten-free, but after independent testing found their products to be way out of compliance, (several hundred parts per million of gluten), look at what their website says now:
http://www.mccanns.ie/pages/faq.html
0.05% is 500 parts per million, and the Codex Alimentarius standard for gluten-free certification is 20 parts per million, (which is 0.002%). IOW, their oats may contain up to 25 times as much wheat gluten as they originally claimed it did.
Personally, I believe that anyone who is sensitive to gluten, should steer clear of any oats, until they've been in remission long enough that they can give oats a careful trial, before deciding to eat it regularly.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Hi Tex,
This article and your comments basically confirm that oats have to be a no-no. Shame really, as I do love my porridge of a morning, and millet porridge just isn't the same.
Oh well. I found this really yummy gluten free toasted muesli with amaranth and lots of dried fruit, so I'll stick with that for the time being.
Lyn
This article and your comments basically confirm that oats have to be a no-no. Shame really, as I do love my porridge of a morning, and millet porridge just isn't the same.
Oh well. I found this really yummy gluten free toasted muesli with amaranth and lots of dried fruit, so I'll stick with that for the time being.
Lyn
Hi Lyn,
There's also buckwheat, and quinoa, but neither one of them have much flavor, as a breakfast cereal. I've never tried amaranth. I've tried to find it in pure form, but around here, all of it seems to be blended with other grains that are not gluten-free. I've always been lucky that I can eat bacon and eggs, without any problems.
Tex
There's also buckwheat, and quinoa, but neither one of them have much flavor, as a breakfast cereal. I've never tried amaranth. I've tried to find it in pure form, but around here, all of it seems to be blended with other grains that are not gluten-free. I've always been lucky that I can eat bacon and eggs, without any problems.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Lyn,
I also have always loved eating oatmeal or grits in the morning, especially in winter, but both are out for me now. (I'm giving up corn until I get into remission, anyway, bc I think it irritates my gut.) I've been eating Erewhon Brown Rice Cereal, which is sort of like Cream of Wheat, except it's rice. I put a little pure maple syrup on that and find it to be a pretty good substitute. It's fairly low in fiber, despite the name.
Love,
Courtney
I also have always loved eating oatmeal or grits in the morning, especially in winter, but both are out for me now. (I'm giving up corn until I get into remission, anyway, bc I think it irritates my gut.) I've been eating Erewhon Brown Rice Cereal, which is sort of like Cream of Wheat, except it's rice. I put a little pure maple syrup on that and find it to be a pretty good substitute. It's fairly low in fiber, despite the name.
Love,
Courtney
Hypothyroid 05/05
LC/CC 07/08
Celiac 07/08
LC/CC 07/08
Celiac 07/08
The issue I find with the muesli, and most packaged cereals is that they are sweet and way too high glycemic index - so I get hungry too quickly. Oats I used to make with water and only add psyllium and cinnamon (it's antiparisitic) - no other liquid, nothing sweet. They stick to your ribs as nanna used to say. Excellent hunger control to calorie ratio
Eggs are another option, but no bacon because of the nitrates. CVID patients have 47 times the normal incidence of stomach cancer, and the gastroscopy already showed chronic gastritis. Eggs with spinach and tomato are yummy, but still don't hold the hunger well.
My supermarket has plain popped amaranth, which is tiny balls that just go everywhere and seem to attach to everything as if affected by static. They have no flavour. I tried eating a bowl with stewed fruit and juice one day, and ended up with amaranth all over the dining room as every spoonful seemed to cause a poof of tiny grains. At least they didn't go soggy!
Quinoa is very bland, but I haven't tried buckwheat - should get some of that. The other one I have been meaning to try is congee - though it's usually eaten with too many pickled garnishes to give it flavour. I can look for the packaged brown rice cereal, haven't seen it around here.
Once the brain fog clears a bit better I'll have to try some serious breakfast experimentation. I can see something solid like pumpkin or potato cakes with an egg on top being part of the trials.
Lyn
Eggs are another option, but no bacon because of the nitrates. CVID patients have 47 times the normal incidence of stomach cancer, and the gastroscopy already showed chronic gastritis. Eggs with spinach and tomato are yummy, but still don't hold the hunger well.
My supermarket has plain popped amaranth, which is tiny balls that just go everywhere and seem to attach to everything as if affected by static. They have no flavour. I tried eating a bowl with stewed fruit and juice one day, and ended up with amaranth all over the dining room as every spoonful seemed to cause a poof of tiny grains. At least they didn't go soggy!
Quinoa is very bland, but I haven't tried buckwheat - should get some of that. The other one I have been meaning to try is congee - though it's usually eaten with too many pickled garnishes to give it flavour. I can look for the packaged brown rice cereal, haven't seen it around here.
Once the brain fog clears a bit better I'll have to try some serious breakfast experimentation. I can see something solid like pumpkin or potato cakes with an egg on top being part of the trials.
Lyn
Apparently Erewhon brand cereal is only available in the U. S. and Canada. On the other hand, I've never heard of, or seen congee in this country, but maybe I've just been leading a sheltered life.
Popped amaranth sounds pretty tricky to deal with. I notice that Arrowhead Mills offers amaranth flakes, and buckwheat flakes, as breakfast cereals, but unfortunately, they don't ship to Australia.
A potato cake and egg sandwich sounds like something I could really go for - a tasty breakfast that would stick to your ribs, but isn't the glycemic index rather high for potatoes? At least a couple of our members, on the paleo diet, eat things like pork chops, for breakfast, and I used to do that myself, back when I was cutting so many things out of my diet. Here in the southwestern U. S., (and in places all across the South, I believe), steak and eggs are on a lot of breakfast menus.
Tex
Popped amaranth sounds pretty tricky to deal with.
I notice that Arrowhead Mills offers amaranth flakes, and buckwheat flakes, as breakfast cereals, but unfortunately, they don't ship to Australia.A potato cake and egg sandwich sounds like something I could really go for - a tasty breakfast that would stick to your ribs, but isn't the glycemic index rather high for potatoes? At least a couple of our members, on the paleo diet, eat things like pork chops, for breakfast, and I used to do that myself, back when I was cutting so many things out of my diet. Here in the southwestern U. S., (and in places all across the South, I believe), steak and eggs are on a lot of breakfast menus.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Lyn;
I love a cooked cereal some mornings. Where I live, we almost NEVER see a "cold" morning, but a nice warm cereal is still good on occasion.
I happen to really like both quinoa and buckwheat cereal, but I never cook and eat them plain. I prefer cooked with raisins, dried cranberries, apples or some other fruit - sometimes a mixture. Then, I add a little honey when I eat them, and I don't think either is bland when prepared like that.
But, who knows, my son thinks my entire diet is "bland"!
Don't know if Bob's Red Mill is available there, or if they ship there. They make a cereal called "Mighty Tasty GF Hot Cereal" and I also really like that one! Ingredients in it are: "Whole Grain Brown Rice, Corn, White Sorghum, Buckwheat" - did you say you are avoiding corn? Well, guess you can think of this one if you add corn at some time in the future.
OK - why did I forget this one? I used to eat the following EVERY morning! I think it's great, but haven't been making it lately.
1 cup brown rice
2 cups water
Cook above until all water is absorbed. May add a bit of salt if desired.
In skillet, heat small amount of olive oil and saute:
1 apple, chopped
1/4 cup raisins
1 small onion, chopped
1/2 cup slivered almonds
Sprinkle with 1 tsp cinnamon, then stir into cooked rice.
I make this amount and store it in the refrigerator and "nuke" it for bfst. I divide it into 4 servings.
Hope some of this helps.
G'ma Mary
I love a cooked cereal some mornings. Where I live, we almost NEVER see a "cold" morning, but a nice warm cereal is still good on occasion.
I happen to really like both quinoa and buckwheat cereal, but I never cook and eat them plain. I prefer cooked with raisins, dried cranberries, apples or some other fruit - sometimes a mixture. Then, I add a little honey when I eat them, and I don't think either is bland when prepared like that.
But, who knows, my son thinks my entire diet is "bland"!
Don't know if Bob's Red Mill is available there, or if they ship there. They make a cereal called "Mighty Tasty GF Hot Cereal" and I also really like that one! Ingredients in it are: "Whole Grain Brown Rice, Corn, White Sorghum, Buckwheat" - did you say you are avoiding corn? Well, guess you can think of this one if you add corn at some time in the future.
OK - why did I forget this one? I used to eat the following EVERY morning! I think it's great, but haven't been making it lately.
1 cup brown rice
2 cups water
Cook above until all water is absorbed. May add a bit of salt if desired.
In skillet, heat small amount of olive oil and saute:
1 apple, chopped
1/4 cup raisins
1 small onion, chopped
1/2 cup slivered almonds
Sprinkle with 1 tsp cinnamon, then stir into cooked rice.
I make this amount and store it in the refrigerator and "nuke" it for bfst. I divide it into 4 servings.
Hope some of this helps.
G'ma Mary
If you're able to eat sweet potatoes, you can make sweet potato pancakes by shredding sweet potatoes and then mixing an egg into them to make the shreds stick together. Then, just spray your pan with oil and toss them in. Also, I've eaten rice pudding for breakfast some mornings this winter. I just get creative with the ingredients. Really if you have any dairy-free milk, you can substitute it.
Hope those ideas are helpful.
Love,
Courtney
Hope those ideas are helpful.
Love,
Courtney
Hypothyroid 05/05
LC/CC 07/08
Celiac 07/08
LC/CC 07/08
Celiac 07/08