Rice Chex Again! :shock:
Moderators: Rosie, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
Rice Chex Again! :shock:
I keep bouncing back and fourth on this issue, for some reason or other - I don't seem to be able to make up my mind, (or rather, my gut doesn't seem to be able to make up it's mind).
This morning, I was reading posts on this board, and minding my own business, when all of a sudden it dawned on me that I was about to become the victim of an unintended colon-cleansing episode. Sure enough, it didn't take long, and I cleaned out pretty doggone good, and then it was over. I kept trying to think of something thaI might have eaten last night, or yesterday, that could have been suspicious, but nope - everything should have been perfectly safe. IOW, I ate every meal at home, and I ate the usual stuff that I eat virtually every day. In fact, I never left the farm, yesterday. I finally gave up straining my feeble brain, and wrote it off as one of those unsolved mysteries that just happen, now and then.
Later today, during the chat, though, Joan mentioned Rice Chex. BINGO! I had eaten a big bowl of Rice Chex for breakfast, about an hour before the "cleansing".
Hmmmm. I stopped eating Rice Chex about the end of the summer, when I noticed bloating, and sometimes headaches, and upper body pain, after eating it, but no D. I started eating them again, a few months ago, a couple of times each week, with no apparent symptoms. Could it be that my gut "healed" while I was avoiding Rice Chex, and after eating them a while, I finally accrued enough damage that once again, I am reacting to them, this time with D? I plan to check this out on Tuesday, (that will give my gut 3 days to settle down, but I haven't had any D since this morning).
I find this to be incredibly interesting, because if this is indeed what is happening, that implies that for items with very low levels of gluten, we are indeed accumulating damage to our gut, whether we realize it or not, and when enough damage has been accrued, then we will begin to react, when exposed to the next "dose" of the allergen. IOW, nothing happens, until we reach the point where we exceed a certain minimum theshold of accrued damage, and once we surpass that threshold, we will react every time we are exposed to the allergen. I'm betting that Tuesday morning, about an hour after I eat a bowl of Rice Chex, I'll react the same that I did today, and that will prove the validity of my theory.
Up until today, I have not noticed any symptoms from the Rice Chex, (not since the first incident, back during the summer, I believe). I note that today, the D was generated with no cramps, or prior pain of any kind. No gurgling, or any other sound effects or warning signs. Strange. I don't know what else to blame it on, though, since everything else I ate seems to be above suspicion. Trace amounts of gluten seem to be very sinister enemies, that can affect us in sometimes surprising ways.
Tex
This morning, I was reading posts on this board, and minding my own business, when all of a sudden it dawned on me that I was about to become the victim of an unintended colon-cleansing episode. Sure enough, it didn't take long, and I cleaned out pretty doggone good, and then it was over. I kept trying to think of something thaI might have eaten last night, or yesterday, that could have been suspicious, but nope - everything should have been perfectly safe. IOW, I ate every meal at home, and I ate the usual stuff that I eat virtually every day. In fact, I never left the farm, yesterday. I finally gave up straining my feeble brain, and wrote it off as one of those unsolved mysteries that just happen, now and then.
Later today, during the chat, though, Joan mentioned Rice Chex. BINGO! I had eaten a big bowl of Rice Chex for breakfast, about an hour before the "cleansing".
Hmmmm. I stopped eating Rice Chex about the end of the summer, when I noticed bloating, and sometimes headaches, and upper body pain, after eating it, but no D. I started eating them again, a few months ago, a couple of times each week, with no apparent symptoms. Could it be that my gut "healed" while I was avoiding Rice Chex, and after eating them a while, I finally accrued enough damage that once again, I am reacting to them, this time with D? I plan to check this out on Tuesday, (that will give my gut 3 days to settle down, but I haven't had any D since this morning).
I find this to be incredibly interesting, because if this is indeed what is happening, that implies that for items with very low levels of gluten, we are indeed accumulating damage to our gut, whether we realize it or not, and when enough damage has been accrued, then we will begin to react, when exposed to the next "dose" of the allergen. IOW, nothing happens, until we reach the point where we exceed a certain minimum theshold of accrued damage, and once we surpass that threshold, we will react every time we are exposed to the allergen. I'm betting that Tuesday morning, about an hour after I eat a bowl of Rice Chex, I'll react the same that I did today, and that will prove the validity of my theory.
Up until today, I have not noticed any symptoms from the Rice Chex, (not since the first incident, back during the summer, I believe). I note that today, the D was generated with no cramps, or prior pain of any kind. No gurgling, or any other sound effects or warning signs. Strange. I don't know what else to blame it on, though, since everything else I ate seems to be above suspicion. Trace amounts of gluten seem to be very sinister enemies, that can affect us in sometimes surprising ways.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Oh! My!!! That's not good!!!
I eat Rice Chex maybe 2 times a week, if that.
Of course, I still take Entocort as my safety net , and have never had any reaction after eating the Rice Chex.
Your test on Tuesday will surely give you your answer.. I hope it's not the cereal.
Love
Dee~~~
I eat Rice Chex maybe 2 times a week, if that.
Of course, I still take Entocort as my safety net , and have never had any reaction after eating the Rice Chex.
Your test on Tuesday will surely give you your answer.. I hope it's not the cereal.
Love
Dee~~~
"What the heart gives away is never gone ... It is kept in the hearts of others."
Hi Dee,
I hope it's not the Rice Chex, too, but it seems to be acting exactly like the oats did, back when I tested it out. We'll see.
I'll bet it's such a small amount of gluten, that it won't cause any problem with Entocort. It may well be below the 20 ppm level that the law allows.
Love,
Tex
I hope it's not the Rice Chex, too, but it seems to be acting exactly like the oats did, back when I tested it out. We'll see.
I'll bet it's such a small amount of gluten, that it won't cause any problem with Entocort. It may well be below the 20 ppm level that the law allows.
Love,
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
- artteacher
- Rockhopper Penguin
- Posts: 731
- Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:13 pm
.
Hey there Tex,
I assumed this was the case: that we heal up, and thereafter have a moderate degree of resistance to gluten or other irritating agents. The same thing happens to me over and over as you described: eat something at first seems tolerated, for a few days, a week, or a month, symptoms coming back all the time gradually, and then "Bam" they're back 100%. Then you have to cut out that food entirely and take a month or so to get normal again (until you're again tempted off the "safe food wagon"). My husband laughs his head off every time I say, "you know, maybe I should try to eat _ _ _ again, it's been such a long time & maybe I:
a) was imagining it"
b) have outgrown it"
3) tried it last week and nothing happened"
Love you guys, Marsha
I assumed this was the case: that we heal up, and thereafter have a moderate degree of resistance to gluten or other irritating agents. The same thing happens to me over and over as you described: eat something at first seems tolerated, for a few days, a week, or a month, symptoms coming back all the time gradually, and then "Bam" they're back 100%. Then you have to cut out that food entirely and take a month or so to get normal again (until you're again tempted off the "safe food wagon"). My husband laughs his head off every time I say, "you know, maybe I should try to eat _ _ _ again, it's been such a long time & maybe I:
a) was imagining it"
b) have outgrown it"
3) tried it last week and nothing happened"
Love you guys, Marsha
Hi Marsha,
Thanks for posting that. Maybe if I come back and read that every so often, I'll eventually learn to quit doing that.
Hey, we love ya too,
Tex
Those are the same rationalizations that I usually use, just before I try another unsuccessful "challenge".Marsha wrote:My husband laughs his head off every time I say, "you know, maybe I should try to eat _ _ _ again, it's been such a long time & maybe I:
a) was imagining it"
b) have outgrown it"
3) tried it last week and nothing happened"
Thanks for posting that. Maybe if I come back and read that every so often, I'll eventually learn to quit doing that.
Hey, we love ya too,
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
You know that those of us still hoping for remission hate to read this, don't you? We keep hoping that once we're rid of our symptoms, we can resume eating at least some of the foods on our restricted list. I think we can, but the problem is: which ones? It seems as though it will be a lifetime of trial and error. <Sigh>
Gloria
Gloria
You never know what you can do until you have to do it.
Gloria,
Some experts claim that if you rotate your menu items, so that after you eat a certain type of food, you wait at least four days before eating it again, then you should be able to handle food intolerances, without any problems. Some say that three days is sufficient. Anyway, that's the basis of the "Challenges" that I've done for both oats, and Rice Chex. I always ate them for breakfast on Tuesdays, and Saturdays. My reaction on Saturday was four days after the last time that I had eaten Rice Chex, but not necessarily rice, as I recall eating rice on either Wednesday or Thursday. I've never detected a reaction to rice, however - only the Rice Chex.
The reason why I decided to do these tests twice a week, rather than four days apart, is because I figured that I would probably get lost and forget where I was on the schedule by about the second or third week. This way, it's easy to remember.
Maybe I have a very slight intolerance for rice, and the tiny amount of gluten in Rice Chex is able to push me over the threshold limit for a reaction. Who knows? I plan to keep fiddling with this until I can figure something out, though.
Here's an article on a how to go about utilizing a rotation diet:
http://www.food-allergy.org/rotation.html
There's always the chance that something else is going on here, as this "incident" caught me totally by surprise. I'll see what happens this week, and take it from there.
Tex
Some experts claim that if you rotate your menu items, so that after you eat a certain type of food, you wait at least four days before eating it again, then you should be able to handle food intolerances, without any problems. Some say that three days is sufficient. Anyway, that's the basis of the "Challenges" that I've done for both oats, and Rice Chex. I always ate them for breakfast on Tuesdays, and Saturdays. My reaction on Saturday was four days after the last time that I had eaten Rice Chex, but not necessarily rice, as I recall eating rice on either Wednesday or Thursday. I've never detected a reaction to rice, however - only the Rice Chex.
The reason why I decided to do these tests twice a week, rather than four days apart, is because I figured that I would probably get lost and forget where I was on the schedule by about the second or third week. This way, it's easy to remember.
Maybe I have a very slight intolerance for rice, and the tiny amount of gluten in Rice Chex is able to push me over the threshold limit for a reaction. Who knows? I plan to keep fiddling with this until I can figure something out, though.
Here's an article on a how to go about utilizing a rotation diet:
http://www.food-allergy.org/rotation.html
There's always the chance that something else is going on here, as this "incident" caught me totally by surprise. I'll see what happens this week, and take it from there.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Hi All,
Well, this is good news for Rice Chex fans - several hours have passed since I ate a big bowl full of Rice Chex, and so far, nothing has happened to suggest any hint of a reaction. If that status changes before the day is over, I'll update this, but so far, so good.
That implies that something else caused the reaction last Saturday, (though I have no idea what it could have been), thus reminding us that it's easy to jump to the wrong conclusions about intolerance reactions. There always seems to be something to come along every so often, to confuse the issue, and confound our understanding.
Sorry for the false alarm. (I'll go stand in the corner, now).
Tex
Well, this is good news for Rice Chex fans - several hours have passed since I ate a big bowl full of Rice Chex, and so far, nothing has happened to suggest any hint of a reaction. If that status changes before the day is over, I'll update this, but so far, so good.
That implies that something else caused the reaction last Saturday, (though I have no idea what it could have been), thus reminding us that it's easy to jump to the wrong conclusions about intolerance reactions. There always seems to be something to come along every so often, to confuse the issue, and confound our understanding.
Sorry for the false alarm. (I'll go stand in the corner, now).
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
- artteacher
- Rockhopper Penguin
- Posts: 731
- Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:13 pm
.
Hey Tex,
I just thought I'd weigh in with observation #2 about your "doublecheck" of the Rice Chex. I've done the same thing: eaten the food a second time just to see if you were right. AND sometimes a reactive food doesn't cause the same symptoms. Sometimes you dodge a bullet! All I can assume is that the lining of your intestines is better prepared to guard itself against gluten/fiber/allergens or whatever at some times than it is at others. Whether it's your ph, or levels of hydration, or anything else, I have no idea. Have any ideas?
Happy almost Valentines Day . . . Marsha
I just thought I'd weigh in with observation #2 about your "doublecheck" of the Rice Chex. I've done the same thing: eaten the food a second time just to see if you were right. AND sometimes a reactive food doesn't cause the same symptoms. Sometimes you dodge a bullet! All I can assume is that the lining of your intestines is better prepared to guard itself against gluten/fiber/allergens or whatever at some times than it is at others. Whether it's your ph, or levels of hydration, or anything else, I have no idea. Have any ideas?
Happy almost Valentines Day . . . Marsha
Marsha,
That's a very good observation, and as a matter of fact, I do have an idea about that, now that you mention it. It has been demonstrated that it is indeed possible for certain known toxins to be "masked" by other agents, within the lumen.
First, we have to recognize that the cause of the inflammation resulting from MC, is apparently connected with "toxins" in the fecal stream. I think that this is clearly defined by the fact that complete diversion of the fecal stream, upstream of the colon, (IOW, an ileostomy), or somewhere within the colon, (a Hartman procedure), will totally resolve the histology of the colonic mucosa, downstream of the ostomy, (IOW, the pathological markers of MC will completely disappear). A reversal of the procedure will restore the histology of MC, and a relapse of MC will occur.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7615 ... t=Abstract
Aflatoxin is a carcinogenic mycotoxin that sometimes is found in corn, (maize), produced under stressful growing conditions, (aflatoxin is a byproduct of a tropical fungus that can attack the plant during the pollination phase of growth). Not only is aflatoxin carcinogenic, but it also overworks the liver, so that the liver can become severely damaged, if enough of the mycotoxin is ingested, over time. It has been demonstrated, for example, that common bentonite, (clay), can be used to "mask" the toxic effects of aflatoxin, when added to the feed rations of livestock, that are being fed rations that contain corn, which shows aflatoxin levels in excess of the known safe tolerance maximum, (20 parts per billion). For example, here are two studies, one for swine, and one for poultry, (and this technology does indeed work out in the field, and it's sometimes used, when "safe" corn is unavailable):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1897 ... t=Abstract
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=18324657
Young animals were used in these studies, because young animals are more vulnerable to the effects of aflatoxin than older animals. Anyway, the point is, obviously, if this works, then there must be other "protective" agents in existence, for other "toxins". Unfortunately, I have no idea what any of those "protective agents" for MC, might be, (if, in fact, they actually exist).
Happy almost Valentines day to you, too, and thanks for the terrific insight.
Tex
That's a very good observation, and as a matter of fact, I do have an idea about that, now that you mention it. It has been demonstrated that it is indeed possible for certain known toxins to be "masked" by other agents, within the lumen.
First, we have to recognize that the cause of the inflammation resulting from MC, is apparently connected with "toxins" in the fecal stream. I think that this is clearly defined by the fact that complete diversion of the fecal stream, upstream of the colon, (IOW, an ileostomy), or somewhere within the colon, (a Hartman procedure), will totally resolve the histology of the colonic mucosa, downstream of the ostomy, (IOW, the pathological markers of MC will completely disappear). A reversal of the procedure will restore the histology of MC, and a relapse of MC will occur.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7615 ... t=Abstract
Aflatoxin is a carcinogenic mycotoxin that sometimes is found in corn, (maize), produced under stressful growing conditions, (aflatoxin is a byproduct of a tropical fungus that can attack the plant during the pollination phase of growth). Not only is aflatoxin carcinogenic, but it also overworks the liver, so that the liver can become severely damaged, if enough of the mycotoxin is ingested, over time. It has been demonstrated, for example, that common bentonite, (clay), can be used to "mask" the toxic effects of aflatoxin, when added to the feed rations of livestock, that are being fed rations that contain corn, which shows aflatoxin levels in excess of the known safe tolerance maximum, (20 parts per billion). For example, here are two studies, one for swine, and one for poultry, (and this technology does indeed work out in the field, and it's sometimes used, when "safe" corn is unavailable):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1897 ... t=Abstract
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=18324657
Young animals were used in these studies, because young animals are more vulnerable to the effects of aflatoxin than older animals. Anyway, the point is, obviously, if this works, then there must be other "protective" agents in existence, for other "toxins". Unfortunately, I have no idea what any of those "protective agents" for MC, might be, (if, in fact, they actually exist).
Happy almost Valentines day to you, too, and thanks for the terrific insight.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.