Soy question

[Bifcus16]

Does the form of soy make any difference for those who have problems with it?

Something is causing my fingers to swell a lot lately, and I am wondering if soy is implicated. Since giving up gluten I have been tending to eat more soy products, mostly in baked goods and soy milk. I continue to eat tamari (fermented wheat free soy sauce) regularly.

I am sure that when I read about phytoestrogens, there is a big difference between soy beans, processed soy flour, and fermented soy products. Is it possible that the fermented stuff doesn't cause a reaction, but the other forms do?

Lyn

And yeah, I know what you folk will say so I'm starting the food diary again.

[Gloria]

The form of soy is irrelevant for me. I've reacted to soy in a little vitamin E capsule, and also to soy-based body butter (it gave me a rash). I think that I am not just intolerant to soy, but allergic to it because of the rash.

There may be others here who have noticed a difference between the various forms - I'm just not aware of them.

Gloria

[tex]

Lyn,

That's a very good question, and I'm not sure that anyone in the world knows the true answer, but I agree with Gloria, and our collective experience has suggested that the form does not matter for many/most of us. For example, it is claimed that all oils are safe, (free of allergens), because the processing is supposed to remove all proteins. Unfortunately, many of us have found that we react to oils, anyway, (though usually not as severely as we react to the proteins themselves).

Are you quite sure that the soy sauce you are using is 100% free of wheat? It probably is, but I ask, just to be absolutely sure, because this is the Wikipedia description of Tamari:

Tamari (たまり ?)

Produced mainly in the Chūbu region of Japan, tamari is darker in appearance and richer in flavour than koikuchi. It contains little or no wheat; wheat-free tamari is popular among people eating a wheat free diet. It is the "original" Japanese soy sauce, as its recipe is closest to the soy sauce originally introduced to Japan from China. Technically, this variety is known as miso-damari (味噌溜り), as this is the liquid that runs off miso as it matures.

Assuming that part checks out OK, and since I can't seem to locate any specific information on the chemistry of the fermentation process involved in soy sauce, consider this article about fermenting yeast in bread, (note that we react to both certain gliadins, and certain components of glutenin, either together or individually, and we also react to gluten, (in bread), after the two proteins are chemically combined by the addition of water and kneading, which binds the bread together and gives it it's characteristic texture and "elasticity"). IOW, neither the chemical combination of the two protein forms, nor the yeast fermentation process, (nor the baking process, for that matter), changes the allergenicity of the various forms of protein in wheat that we react to.

http://www.baking911.com/bread/101_fermentation.htm

Based on that, I would suspect that if someone reacts to any form of soya protein, she or he will probably react to any forms, at any stage of processing. Obviously, I'm just guessing here, since I don't have access to the actual chemistry involved in all the processes, (and I probably wouldn't understand it, even if I did have access to it).

Have you checked Jean's List of Soy Products/Additives?

http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=736

Tex

[artteacher]

Hi there,

I can eat edamame beans, but not soy milk, unless it is one brand (MoonRose) sold at Nordstrom's coffee bars. Go figure. MoonRose is vegan. There are a few other products that are mysteries: for instance chocolate - I can't eat any chocolate except Green & Black's, and it also is vegan. Personally, I think it has something to do with the way soy is processed - using sulfates perhaps, to break down fibers? Corn is another one that has a lot of sulfates used in it's processing, and I can eat corn on the cob, or canned corn, but not refined corn products, including vitamin c tablets (unless they are made from sago palm, not corn).

It's all just trial and error, isn't it?!

Marsha

[Bifcus16]

Hi Tex,

I think the tamari is wheat free. It says it only contains soy beans, filtered water and sea salt. The same brand (Spiral) has a regular tamari with wheat, and an organic one with wheat. So I reckon if they are making that much effort to distinguish between the products they are probably honest.

It might be that the protein (if that is the relevant component) of soy doesn't change during processing, but other components do. That would explain why the literature often emphasises the different forms when they are talking oestrogen.

I am trying to simplify my diet at the moment - reduce the processed stuff. I never used to have trouble with this tamari, and really don't want to give it up. Try everything else first.

Gloria and Marsha,

Thanks for the comments. Interesting how different people can have different reactions. I have been eating more of the processed corn thins... hmm.

Lyn

[MaggieRedwings]

Morning Lyn,

I also react to soy in any form but have not incurred a rash but then do not buy any body products that contain soy. I also use a wheat free tamari but sometimes it will bother me. Sorry, I forget the brand.

Love, Maggie