Hi All,
Discussions about some members being able to eat "home-grown" type eggs, while having problems with mainstream commercially-produced eggs, inspired me to do a little research to see if I could discover any reasons for that apparent enigma.
While there might be an effect due to the rations fed in both situations, I have a hunch that there is not a clear-cut distinction there, due to the fact that the rations are basically the same, except that most of the "home-grown" operations allow free range access, whereas the larger commercial operations obviously do not. In many cases, the rations are basically the same, because even free-range chickens usually get at least two-thirds of their ration from grain-based feeds.
There is an upside and a downside to free range situations. The upside is that if something might be missing in a ration, animals and birds are pretty good at replacing it, when they are allowed to roam over sufficient acreage to offer a reasonable opportunity to supply any missing ration ingredients. Also, disease is usually less of a risk, simply because of less crowding. The downside is that the ration cannot be strictly controlled in a free range situation, and livestock are prone to eat things that we usually consider to be "off limits".
If you grew up on a farm, you know what I'm talking about. Uncracked grain usually goes straight through cattle and hogs, for example, but if chickens or turkeys are present, it won't be wasted - they will glean almost all of it from the manure. In fact, on "game ranches", one of the best ways to provide supplemental feed for wild turkeys and quail, is to feed grain to cattle roaming the same land.
Theoretically, all of that should be beside the point, anyway, because the digestive system breaks all nutrients down to the amino acid level, before absorbing them, and utilizing them to make new tissue. Toxins should either be excreted, or contained in the liver, (or certain other organs of the body), or body fluids, (such as milk), which should leave the primary sources of protein, (muscle tissue, eggs, etc.), relatively pure.
To get to the subject at hand, though, there is probably a difference in the way that eggs are handled, prior to marketing. Conventional commercial operations use USDA-approved methods for cleaning eggs, and while not as automated, smaller operations probably use similar methods, though they may opt to skip the cleaning step for eggs that do not appear to be dirty, in the first place.
One step that the smaller operations may leave out, though, is spraying the eggs with oil, to improve shelf life, (and to prevent hatching). In order for a chick to hatch, the eggshell has to be able to "breathe". Oil prevents that from happening. The oil acts as a sealant, (to prevent porosity, and to minimize the chance of bacteria being drawn into the egg, during temperature changes, due to a vacuum being formed as the inside of the egg cools down). The traditional oil used is mineral oil, (which is a petroleum-based product, of course).
However, tests have shown that corn oil, castor oil, linseed oil, and soy bean oil, work just as effectively as mineral oil. In 1994, the FDA deregulated several types of "food oils", (IOW, their use does not have to be reported, so long as their mode of action is non-toxic), so it's certainly possible that some operations could be using these alternative oils on eggshells, these days. Since the eggshell is porous when the oil is sprayed on, almost certainly, a slight amount is absorbed inside the shell. Considering that soy oil is so popular these days, it's not impossible that some could be showing up inside eggs, due to this possible practice.
I have no idea whether any company is actually doing this, I'm just thinking out loud here, and discussing what might be happening.
Which reminds me - food corn is often sprayed with a vegetable oil, (often soy-based oil), to hold the dust down, during handling, prior to processing. There's a slight chance that this "contamination", (it soaks into the kernal of corn), may be why some of us react to corn, sometimes.
Again, remember that all of this is just speculation. I have no proof that any of this is actually happening to our food, I'm just saying that it is certainly possible, (IOW, it's legal, and it works, to meet certain processing "needs", as perceived by the food industry).
Tex
Differences Between Commercial And Home-Grown Eggs
Moderators: Rosie, JFR, Dee, xet, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh, mbeezie
Differences Between Commercial And Home-Grown Eggs
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Very interesting theories, Tex. I suppose the only way we would really know if the eggs or corn had a soy residue is if they were tested.
I'm wondering why some here have reported that they are able to eat eggs when used as an ingredient in baked goods, but not eat them when they are cooked by themselves. Someday I'll test both ways, but I'm not ready yet.
Gloria
I'm wondering why some here have reported that they are able to eat eggs when used as an ingredient in baked goods, but not eat them when they are cooked by themselves. Someday I'll test both ways, but I'm not ready yet.
Gloria
You never know what you can do until you have to do it.
That could be due to the "dosage" effect. Whether something such as soy contamination of eggs turns out to be a problem, (in which case, we would be talking about a very small amount of soy, in the first place), or whether the egg itself turns out to be the problem - with baked items, we're likely to only eat a relatively minor percentage of the total item, (and therefore get a much smaller dose), when compared with eating fried, or boiled eggs, where we would eat the entire egg, or even multiples.Gloria wrote:I'm wondering why some here have reported that they are able to eat eggs when used as an ingredient in baked goods, but not eat them when they are cooked by themselves. Someday I'll test both ways, but I'm not ready yet.
Also, baking occurs at a higher temperature, (and for a longer period of time), than normal boiling or frying methods used for cooking eggs. We know that gluten can be destroyed by heat, (because gluten can be destroyed by the high heat used to "burn off" a grill, for example - something that I have done many times). What we don't know, is what sort of temperature-time relationship is required to accomplish this. Nothing is truly black and white, (as many in the scientific world would have us believe), so surely there is a gray area on the time-temperature graph, where the offending amino acid sequences are damaged, and/or partially destroyed, but not totally deactivated. This needs to be explored, and tested out, to establish some working criteria, for deactivating gluten by heat.
Conventional wisdom says that normal baking temperatures do not deactivate gluten, but I'm pretty sure that no one has done any research that convincingly demonstrates that gluten is not at least altered in some way, by baking temperatures. It's not outside the realm of possibilities, that baking might have at least a minimal effect on the "potency" of gluten, (or other food intolerances), such that if only a small amount is present to begin with, baking might sufficiently alter it so that it becomes deactivated enough to fall below the reaction threshold, for some individuals. Again, I'm just thinking out loud here, and none of this has been verified, (or even explored), anywhere in the literature, to my knowledge.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Very interesting Sweetheart,
I know from personal experience that Rick reacted to every type of commercial egg, even the organic free range ones. But eggs from our own hens, who are in a big pen for their safety from coyotes, but do have access to grass and bugs to eat produce eggs that give him no problems. And before our pullets were old enough to start laying, we found a woman close by who had hens and her eggs did not bother him either. Now she did have a Dept. of Ag small producers license, but there is no way of knowing how she was cleaning them...
It would make sense that if soy oil was sprayed on the commercial eggs, that could be the problem....that could explain the whole reaction to them, since he is so sensitive to soy that unloading livestock feed that had soy in it made his arms break out, and the recent problems with the Hain safflower oil that had hidden soy....
I wish we could come up with a layer ration that did not include soy, our New Hampshire Red's are only 5 months and laying already, so I'm afraid to attempt a homemade ration with them, until they are older and full grown. But it might be worth trying....
Hugs,
Carrie
I know from personal experience that Rick reacted to every type of commercial egg, even the organic free range ones. But eggs from our own hens, who are in a big pen for their safety from coyotes, but do have access to grass and bugs to eat produce eggs that give him no problems. And before our pullets were old enough to start laying, we found a woman close by who had hens and her eggs did not bother him either. Now she did have a Dept. of Ag small producers license, but there is no way of knowing how she was cleaning them...
It would make sense that if soy oil was sprayed on the commercial eggs, that could be the problem....that could explain the whole reaction to them, since he is so sensitive to soy that unloading livestock feed that had soy in it made his arms break out, and the recent problems with the Hain safflower oil that had hidden soy....
I wish we could come up with a layer ration that did not include soy, our New Hampshire Red's are only 5 months and laying already, so I'm afraid to attempt a homemade ration with them, until they are older and full grown. But it might be worth trying....
Hugs,
Carrie
Carrie,
Organic, soy-free layer mixes are available, but they're pretty expensive, of course.
Here's the closest supplier to you that I've been able to locate, but this was from an old internet list, so I don't know if they are still in business:
http://www.randallburkey.com/prodinfo.asp?number=10862
They may ship, but that can get pretty expensive for feed, as I'm sure you're well aware.
Hugs,
Tex
Organic, soy-free layer mixes are available, but they're pretty expensive, of course.
Here's the closest supplier to you that I've been able to locate, but this was from an old internet list, so I don't know if they are still in business:
Here's another, but this one is in Bourne, TX, which is way down, a little NW of San Antonio:Good Earth Organic Farm
8629 FM 272
Celeste, TX 75423
Tel: 903-496-2070
Email: Lmagedson@netexas.net
Contact: Lynn Magedson
- Produce and use their own blend of all natural feed. Non-medicated, no meat or poultry by-products, antibiotics, etc. They add sea kelp meal and diatomaceous earth to all their feeds. They offer a 16% lay pellet, broiler mash and an 18% sheep and goat pellet. They offer sea kelp meal and diatomaceous earth for sale. Located north of Greenville, Texas.
http://www.randallburkey.com/prodinfo.asp?number=10862
They may ship, but that can get pretty expensive for feed, as I'm sure you're well aware.
Hugs,
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
-
MaggieRedwings
- King Penguin
- Posts: 3865
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 3:16 am
- Location: SE Pennsylvania
Thanks Sweetheart, I'll check them out....I have found a couple of ration recipes on the net for a soy free layer ration, but I can't find one that is a 20% ration, and for some reason, my girls never do as good on a 15 or 16%...I am looking at one that uses good ole alfalfa meal as the protein boost. I can get a good dehy alfalfa pellet from some buddies that run a feed store, that shouldn't have any soy lurking in it. To bad you can't find a calf manna type product that didn't have soy, if I could find that, then I could use a high quality whole grain ration and just add the supplement..
The fun of trying to find good safe food for the livestock that isn't loaded with scary things is a never ending battle...
Hugs,
C
The fun of trying to find good safe food for the livestock that isn't loaded with scary things is a never ending battle...
Hugs,
C
Good morning.
I am enjoying this discussion. I have yet to try the local farm eggs I bought.......have been running everywhere this week and couldn't risk a day or two of diarrhea and cramping.
Tex, interesting stuff about the feed. And especially the oil. It definitely could be a problem with soy oil in my case.
Carrie, don't you also think that a heritage breed may lay less "allergenic" eggs? It would sure fit in with the hunter-gatherer philosophy, wouldn't it?
Maggie, that's interesting. When I was eating eggs, I would request that the restaurant cook them in a separate pan with olive oil. Of course, you don't really know if they did it or just said they did.
A friend of mine who farms (sheep mainly) wonders if a factor may be the way the hens are treated. In commercial operations, the lights are kept on 24 hours a day (egg-laying is light-sensitive). She wonders if these commercial hens have more stress chemicals in their eggs that some might react to. Also, she wonders about the age of the eggs - obviously they are much fresher right from the farm.
Love,
Polly
I am enjoying this discussion. I have yet to try the local farm eggs I bought.......have been running everywhere this week and couldn't risk a day or two of diarrhea and cramping.
Tex, interesting stuff about the feed. And especially the oil. It definitely could be a problem with soy oil in my case.
Carrie, don't you also think that a heritage breed may lay less "allergenic" eggs? It would sure fit in with the hunter-gatherer philosophy, wouldn't it?
Maggie, that's interesting. When I was eating eggs, I would request that the restaurant cook them in a separate pan with olive oil. Of course, you don't really know if they did it or just said they did.
A friend of mine who farms (sheep mainly) wonders if a factor may be the way the hens are treated. In commercial operations, the lights are kept on 24 hours a day (egg-laying is light-sensitive). She wonders if these commercial hens have more stress chemicals in their eggs that some might react to. Also, she wonders about the age of the eggs - obviously they are much fresher right from the farm.
Love,
Polly
Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused.
One of the main reasons for using an oil treatment on the shells, is that it will extend the shelf life of eggs up to 6 to 8 months. It's USDA recommended, (naturally). Since warehouses tend to rotate their stock, and they like to keep more than adequate supplies on hand, that implies that we probably very rarely see truly fresh eggs, from mainstream suppliers, (if ever).Polly wrote:Also, she wonders about the age of the eggs - obviously they are much fresher right from the farm.
Smaller operators, on the other hand, often sell out, and they're afraid to store their eggs for long periods of time, anyway, because they know that untreated eggs have a short shelf life, so much fresher eggs are virtually guaranteed.
Love,
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Polly,
I do agree that the heritage breeds may have something going for them because they have not been mixed with hybrids. The breed that I have ( New Hampshire Reds) have only been around since about 1914, but my other heritage breeds I have owned, Barred Rocks, Marans, Salmon Favorelle, Cochin have been around much longer.
I do think that the stress level of the hens may also have something to do with it. My working girls and their Roo live right next to the house, in a coop that attached to the yard where the showdogs play outside and when I'm out in the garden working or out doing chores, I open the gate between and chickens and dogs mingle out together. So they have room to chase bugs and eat grass, aside form the occasional " chicken bowling" when 11 month old whippet Keaton runs through the flock to watch them scatter, they don't really have any stress. Maybe a happy hen makes a better egg
I have run hens under lights in the winter to extend their laying time and store up eggs to freeze, but even then I ran a timer so that they were not under constant light all night,maybe that constant stress of no darkness does upset them...know it would bother the daylights out of me....
Wayne,
The thought of eating a 8 month old egg is very scary, the longest our's may sit is a week or two, and they are collected as soon as they are laid and put in the fridge. One of the perks of having the hens right next to the house, they are safe from predators ( we lost our first flock to coyotes because they were out in the barn and we couldn't hear the massacre) but you can hear when they cackle after laying...win, win..
C
I do agree that the heritage breeds may have something going for them because they have not been mixed with hybrids. The breed that I have ( New Hampshire Reds) have only been around since about 1914, but my other heritage breeds I have owned, Barred Rocks, Marans, Salmon Favorelle, Cochin have been around much longer.
I do think that the stress level of the hens may also have something to do with it. My working girls and their Roo live right next to the house, in a coop that attached to the yard where the showdogs play outside and when I'm out in the garden working or out doing chores, I open the gate between and chickens and dogs mingle out together. So they have room to chase bugs and eat grass, aside form the occasional " chicken bowling" when 11 month old whippet Keaton runs through the flock to watch them scatter, they don't really have any stress. Maybe a happy hen makes a better egg
I have run hens under lights in the winter to extend their laying time and store up eggs to freeze, but even then I ran a timer so that they were not under constant light all night,maybe that constant stress of no darkness does upset them...know it would bother the daylights out of me....
Wayne,
The thought of eating a 8 month old egg is very scary, the longest our's may sit is a week or two, and they are collected as soon as they are laid and put in the fridge. One of the perks of having the hens right next to the house, they are safe from predators ( we lost our first flock to coyotes because they were out in the barn and we couldn't hear the massacre) but you can hear when they cackle after laying...win, win..
C
Carrie,
To add icing to the cake, the sounds of laying hens are usually pretty relaxing, (unless they get in a fight over "nest rights"). LOL.
Hugs,
Wayne
To add icing to the cake, the sounds of laying hens are usually pretty relaxing, (unless they get in a fight over "nest rights"). LOL.
Hugs,
Wayne
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
I'm enjoying this discussion, too. I've always read that eggs will keep for a long time if they are refrigerated, but I didn't realize that they are coated with oil to preserve their freshness.
The last time I tried an egg was in a restaurant. Maybe I should try one at home and see what happens. Not for at least another month, however.
Gloria
The last time I tried an egg was in a restaurant. Maybe I should try one at home and see what happens. Not for at least another month, however.
Gloria
You never know what you can do until you have to do it.
Hey all-
Been really busy so not around much.
This is an interesting subject since I do eat eggs but limit it to a few mornings a week. (weak) :-)
How do you freeze eggs? Just get them cold enough . Hahahahah
Just kidding
Was wondering the same thing.
Do tell. And how do you work with them after freezing or might I say thawing.
Does freezing change their consistency and taste. In the shell or out. Always in awe of what I learn on this sight .
mired in work at the moment .
A good thing
I have to be careful what I wish for
Love to you all-
Matt
Been really busy so not around much.
This is an interesting subject since I do eat eggs but limit it to a few mornings a week. (weak) :-)
How do you freeze eggs? Just get them cold enough . Hahahahah
Just kidding
Was wondering the same thing.
Do tell. And how do you work with them after freezing or might I say thawing.
Does freezing change their consistency and taste. In the shell or out. Always in awe of what I learn on this sight .
mired in work at the moment .
A good thing
I have to be careful what I wish for
Love to you all-
Matt