I complained to her that I was concerned about my nutrition because I just couldn't eat vegetables and fruit is pretty much out because I am so fructose intolerant! The fiber in both seem to be a problem too, so she came up with juicing as a possibility. She said to juice some green vegetables and see what happens. So you get the nutrition but not the fiber. Sounds brilliant but I am hesitant to go buy a juicer just to try it. Also what vegetables to start with? She said the low fiber ones like asparagus, cauliflower, beets, green peppers, muchrooms, summer squash, tomatoes, lettuce, eggplant, celery. If you mix them and have a problem how do you know which vegetable that was the problem? I guess you could juice just one vegetable at a time. Sounds yummy - not! Any opinions?
She talked about the whole acid/alkaline bit. The body wants to be alkaline and eating meats, grains, etc are acidic for the body. Fruits and veg make the body more alkaline. This reduces mucus in the stool, etc. Sort of our problem, eh? Anybody have a juicer and want to be the guinea pig? Just kidding!
Pat
A visit with a local dietician
Moderators: Rosie, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
Hi Pat,
I'm just guessing here, but I suspect that you are correct to be a bit apprehensive about mixing some sort of juice cocktail, without being sure of whether any of the ingredients may be a problem for you. Maybe it would be better to limit the blends to two or three types, each, until you can verify that they are safe. I wonder about the juice of nightshades, also. You know, it is the juice of Atropa Belladonna that was traditionally used as poison, in more ancient times. IOW, peppers, tomatoes, and eggplant might need to be "tested", before just arbitrarily adding them to any blend.
In the past, we've had a bunch of discussions about the pH balance at various points in the digestive system, and the "health experts" always seem to be telling us that we need to boost our pH into the alkaline range, but you know what? - that flies in the face of reality, (and logic). The biggest problem that I have with it is, "why would anyone think that the body wants to be alkaline?" Trust me, if it really wanted to be "alkaline", it would be.
The reality is, if the pH of the stomach is not low enough, the odds are significantly increased that we will suffer from all sorts of maladies, ranging from GERD, to poor digestion, and even increasing the risk of bacterial overgrowth. Once the chime leaves the stomach, the fate of the pH balance in the intestines is in the hands of the pancreas, because it is the pancreas' job to add the correct amount of buffering agent, (bicarbonate), based on the detected pH level, in order to raise the pH to an optimum level in the intestines. If we modify the pH level going into the stomach, (or going into the duodenum), the pancreas will simply alter the amount of buffering that it injects into the duodenum, in order to compensate, (it's not nice to fool Mother Nature).
To my way of thinking, we are simply deluding ourselves, if we attempt to play those games. Even if we were to be able to actually accomplish a shift in the pH, this would without question, drastically alter the balance of intestinal bacteria, in the long run, and no one really knows how that balance of species should be shifted in order to create an improved population balance, because everyone's bacterial balance is unique. When we rock the boat, without knowing what we are doing, we run the risk of falling overboard, of course, which is what happens, when we take antibiotics. IMO, a lot of smoke and mirrors can be found in dietary recommendations, because the bottom line is, no one really knows what is best for us, especially on an individual basis, because we are all unique. We encounter the same obstacle with virtually all "treatments" - we are all different, and we all have compromised digestive systems, so all bets are off, as far as the normal rules are concerned. This is just my own opinion on pH balance, of course, and many/most people seem to feel that we should try to alter it, (I guess the grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence).
That said, the idea seems sound, as far as extracting nutrients, without including fiber, is concerned. I would think that it would be worth a try, (for certain nutrients, anyway). On the other hand, I suspect that you could drink vegetable juice all day, without gaining an ounce of weight. Maybe you can find a cheap juicer at Wally World, and if it works, you can always get a good one, later.
Tex
I'm just guessing here, but I suspect that you are correct to be a bit apprehensive about mixing some sort of juice cocktail, without being sure of whether any of the ingredients may be a problem for you. Maybe it would be better to limit the blends to two or three types, each, until you can verify that they are safe. I wonder about the juice of nightshades, also. You know, it is the juice of Atropa Belladonna that was traditionally used as poison, in more ancient times. IOW, peppers, tomatoes, and eggplant might need to be "tested", before just arbitrarily adding them to any blend.
In the past, we've had a bunch of discussions about the pH balance at various points in the digestive system, and the "health experts" always seem to be telling us that we need to boost our pH into the alkaline range, but you know what? - that flies in the face of reality, (and logic). The biggest problem that I have with it is, "why would anyone think that the body wants to be alkaline?" Trust me, if it really wanted to be "alkaline", it would be.
The reality is, if the pH of the stomach is not low enough, the odds are significantly increased that we will suffer from all sorts of maladies, ranging from GERD, to poor digestion, and even increasing the risk of bacterial overgrowth. Once the chime leaves the stomach, the fate of the pH balance in the intestines is in the hands of the pancreas, because it is the pancreas' job to add the correct amount of buffering agent, (bicarbonate), based on the detected pH level, in order to raise the pH to an optimum level in the intestines. If we modify the pH level going into the stomach, (or going into the duodenum), the pancreas will simply alter the amount of buffering that it injects into the duodenum, in order to compensate, (it's not nice to fool Mother Nature).
To my way of thinking, we are simply deluding ourselves, if we attempt to play those games. Even if we were to be able to actually accomplish a shift in the pH, this would without question, drastically alter the balance of intestinal bacteria, in the long run, and no one really knows how that balance of species should be shifted in order to create an improved population balance, because everyone's bacterial balance is unique. When we rock the boat, without knowing what we are doing, we run the risk of falling overboard, of course, which is what happens, when we take antibiotics. IMO, a lot of smoke and mirrors can be found in dietary recommendations, because the bottom line is, no one really knows what is best for us, especially on an individual basis, because we are all unique. We encounter the same obstacle with virtually all "treatments" - we are all different, and we all have compromised digestive systems, so all bets are off, as far as the normal rules are concerned. This is just my own opinion on pH balance, of course, and many/most people seem to feel that we should try to alter it, (I guess the grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence).
That said, the idea seems sound, as far as extracting nutrients, without including fiber, is concerned. I would think that it would be worth a try, (for certain nutrients, anyway). On the other hand, I suspect that you could drink vegetable juice all day, without gaining an ounce of weight. Maybe you can find a cheap juicer at Wally World, and if it works, you can always get a good one, later.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Yeah, she was concerned with my weight too and suggested that I let her order some Medium Chain Triglyceride (MCT) oil for me through the hospital dietician. Haven't done that yet either. I am also concerned with my weight but also with getting proper nutrition and you have to admit vegetables and fruits are probably healthier than meat and buckwheat cereal.
Pat
Pat
I think that the "heathiest" diet is the one that we were evolved to eat. According to a trillion cattle, (995,838,000, actually), grass is the healthiest diet. According to 200 million cats, and 300 million dogs, it would be meat. LOL. But look at what we feed our pets. Is it any wonder that we take inappropriate liberties with our own diets, considering that many of us treat our pets better than we treat ourselves, (or, at least we try to treat them better)? We feed them a heck of a lot of something that they were never evolved to eat, namely grain?
Actually, it's difficult to pin down an appropriate diet for our ancestors, because conditions varied widely, depending on location, climate, and a lot of other things. Clearly, the earliest ancestors were omnivorous, and would eat anything that they could find or catch, (that didn't eat them first), but if you look at the diets of the later descendants of Homo erectus, the Neanderthal diet consisted of about 80% meat, (since they were primarily hunters), while meat appears to have constituted only about 30 to 35% of the diet of Homo sapiens, (according to some authorities, based on claims that they were primarily gatherers), while other authorities dispute that figure, and claim that the correct "average" was closer to 60 to 65% meat.
Whatever the correct "average" might be, it's fortunate that we've always been omnivorous, so theoretically, at least, we should have a lot of leeway in what we consider to be "healthy" diet options. In view of our history, I'm not sure that it's appropriate to label any food as "healthy", or "unhealthy" - that's strictly a modern twist, that history doesn't support. IMO, there is no such thing as a "healthy" food. They are all "healthy", and none of them are inherently "unhealthy". We were evolved to utilize a wide variety of food types. A food only becomes unhealthy, if we misuse it, by eating too much of it. Therefore, it's the way that we utilize our food, that matters, not the food itself. At least that's the way I see it.
Tex
Actually, it's difficult to pin down an appropriate diet for our ancestors, because conditions varied widely, depending on location, climate, and a lot of other things. Clearly, the earliest ancestors were omnivorous, and would eat anything that they could find or catch, (that didn't eat them first), but if you look at the diets of the later descendants of Homo erectus, the Neanderthal diet consisted of about 80% meat, (since they were primarily hunters), while meat appears to have constituted only about 30 to 35% of the diet of Homo sapiens, (according to some authorities, based on claims that they were primarily gatherers), while other authorities dispute that figure, and claim that the correct "average" was closer to 60 to 65% meat.
Whatever the correct "average" might be, it's fortunate that we've always been omnivorous, so theoretically, at least, we should have a lot of leeway in what we consider to be "healthy" diet options. In view of our history, I'm not sure that it's appropriate to label any food as "healthy", or "unhealthy" - that's strictly a modern twist, that history doesn't support. IMO, there is no such thing as a "healthy" food. They are all "healthy", and none of them are inherently "unhealthy". We were evolved to utilize a wide variety of food types. A food only becomes unhealthy, if we misuse it, by eating too much of it. Therefore, it's the way that we utilize our food, that matters, not the food itself. At least that's the way I see it.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Pat,
I haven't looked into vegetable juices too much, but I do remember seeing carrot juice in combination with other vegetables - maybe tomato?
Before I would buy a vegetable juicer, I'd buy some pre-mixed ones and see how I like them. They might even be tastier. It might be hard to find some without a lot of additives, but maybe not because they're targeting "natural food" people.
Gloria
I haven't looked into vegetable juices too much, but I do remember seeing carrot juice in combination with other vegetables - maybe tomato?
Before I would buy a vegetable juicer, I'd buy some pre-mixed ones and see how I like them. They might even be tastier. It might be hard to find some without a lot of additives, but maybe not because they're targeting "natural food" people.
Gloria
You never know what you can do until you have to do it.
Wait a minute, Tex. I'm not proposing becoming a vegetarian. I just think and I think most nutritionists think that one needs not just meat and buckwheat cereal but some fruit and vegetables to get some phytonutrients and other healthy stuff. Don't make this thread into something it isn't meant to be. 
I'll never give up meat and I would love to eat more grains but right now I am just trying to survive in as healthy a way as possible and not have D. 
Gloria,
I've looked at vegetable juices. Basically its V-8 with additives. Carrot juice is another but I'm not totally sure carrots are ok, yet. Lots of sugar in carrots. Then there are vegetable and fruit mixes, a fairly new V-8 product, and fruit juice is out for now. I don't think ya'll understand how fructose intolerant I am. I seem to be better since I took all the antifungal drugs but I have a long, long way to go.
Pat
I'll never give up meat and I would love to eat more grains but right now I am just trying to survive in as healthy a way as possible and not have D. Gloria,
I've looked at vegetable juices. Basically its V-8 with additives. Carrot juice is another but I'm not totally sure carrots are ok, yet. Lots of sugar in carrots. Then there are vegetable and fruit mixes, a fairly new V-8 product, and fruit juice is out for now. I don't think ya'll understand how fructose intolerant I am. I seem to be better since I took all the antifungal drugs but I have a long, long way to go.
Pat
Pat,
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were leaning toward vegetarianism. I was just sort of thinking out loud, and I got a little side-tracked.
I realize that any reasonable semblance of a balanced diet is tough to maintain, while on such a restricted diet, and it's even tougher to predict how much of the nutrition that we are ingesting, is even being absorbed, until our gut heals, and the digestive process is working somewhat normally, again. After I had been on a restrictive diet for about a year, I started taking vitamins - mostly because I didn't think that I was absorbing certain vitamins and minerals very well, and I believe that the supplements helped.
I never experimented much with juices, (other than some grape juice), but I did make smoothies, once in a while. They were pretty good, but sometimes I overdid it, a bit. It's easy to get too much sugar, and too much fiber, in smoothies, if you're not careful.
Tex
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were leaning toward vegetarianism. I was just sort of thinking out loud, and I got a little side-tracked.
I realize that any reasonable semblance of a balanced diet is tough to maintain, while on such a restricted diet, and it's even tougher to predict how much of the nutrition that we are ingesting, is even being absorbed, until our gut heals, and the digestive process is working somewhat normally, again. After I had been on a restrictive diet for about a year, I started taking vitamins - mostly because I didn't think that I was absorbing certain vitamins and minerals very well, and I believe that the supplements helped.
I never experimented much with juices, (other than some grape juice), but I did make smoothies, once in a while. They were pretty good, but sometimes I overdid it, a bit. It's easy to get too much sugar, and too much fiber, in smoothies, if you're not careful.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Hi Pat,
I believe I was the one who steered the thread toward the meat theories. I'm sorry. Didn't mean to upset you.
I also think vegetables are necessary and fruit if possible - as I understand they are pretty much out for you. I'm not sure grains are positively necessary but some are fine, I believe. Just so they don't make up the largest share of your diet.
That is only my opinion, though. My Mother has lived for years on mostly grain products. I can't get it through her head that she needs more than that to be healthy or perhaps she just doesn't care that much at 86.
Love, Shirley
I believe I was the one who steered the thread toward the meat theories. I'm sorry. Didn't mean to upset you.
I also think vegetables are necessary and fruit if possible - as I understand they are pretty much out for you. I'm not sure grains are positively necessary but some are fine, I believe. Just so they don't make up the largest share of your diet.
That is only my opinion, though. My Mother has lived for years on mostly grain products. I can't get it through her head that she needs more than that to be healthy or perhaps she just doesn't care that much at 86.
Love, Shirley
When the eagles are silent, the parrots begin to jabber"
-- Winston Churchill
-- Winston Churchill
Pat,
I've been thinking about your post and have a suggestion. I know juicers are expensive and you aren't sure if you want to spend the money. Do you have a blender? How about putting one of two veggies, chopped fairly small, in a blender with a little water. After you puree it you could put it through a sieve to remove any chunks. I guess I would start with veggies that you like. I make a salad that calls for raw cauliflower and broccoli that I love but can't eat now. This way, you don't have a bunch of $ tied up in things you can't eat or a piece of equipment you won't use again.
Another way to do this, if you are still having problems with fiber somewhat, is to take the veggies you like and cook them in as small an amount of water as you can. Then blend that mixture up in a blender. You would have instant veggie soup that you could heat on the run.
I understand you feelings about getting more in your diet. I still have to cook everything to mush or I do suffer. I can eat rice, which you were having problems with, but the more of that and other carbs that I eat the harder to keep the weight off. My dietian I saw kept trying to push the veggies but they just didn't agree raw.
Good luck with this.
Jan
I've been thinking about your post and have a suggestion. I know juicers are expensive and you aren't sure if you want to spend the money. Do you have a blender? How about putting one of two veggies, chopped fairly small, in a blender with a little water. After you puree it you could put it through a sieve to remove any chunks. I guess I would start with veggies that you like. I make a salad that calls for raw cauliflower and broccoli that I love but can't eat now. This way, you don't have a bunch of $ tied up in things you can't eat or a piece of equipment you won't use again.
Another way to do this, if you are still having problems with fiber somewhat, is to take the veggies you like and cook them in as small an amount of water as you can. Then blend that mixture up in a blender. You would have instant veggie soup that you could heat on the run.
I understand you feelings about getting more in your diet. I still have to cook everything to mush or I do suffer. I can eat rice, which you were having problems with, but the more of that and other carbs that I eat the harder to keep the weight off. My dietian I saw kept trying to push the veggies but they just didn't agree raw.
Good luck with this.
Jan
While you are proclaiming peace with your lips, be careful to have it even more fully in your heart. - Saint Francis of Assisi
Jan,
I thought of the blender thing and I tried it but it took too long and made such a mess that I gave up and I wasn't sure if the vegetables were ok for me. I guess I should have more patience with it. I even tried straining V-8. That was a mistake! Then I thought well it was probably the citric acid and the other additives so I blenderized a tomato and other veggies to mimick V-8. Big mistake. I think tomatoes are 100% out and it is not the fiber! Actually tomatoes are a fruit. I guess they are lower in sugar than most fruits. My son took a plant course at UT and he said techically all vegetables and fruits are all vegetables, its just that some are sweeter than others so we call them fruit. I have a real problem with fructose. And yes, Dee, all fruits, even the low fructose ones. Sorbitol in toothpaste is a real problem. (people with DFI also have a problem with sorbitol and the other sugar alcohols) I use Biotene because it has very little sorbitol. It makes me nausceous just to put the regular kind in my mouth. Didn't used to be this way. It got really bad after the Neomycin 2 years ago!
I have added back some rice. I seem to have a real problem with fats even avocados. Fatty meats, olive oil, coconut oil, avocados. I was trying to eat fats at all the dietician's urging to gain weight but I guess I malabsorb it because if I eliminate the fat I do so much better. I have a hard time getting enough calories but maybe if I am not malabsorbing so much foods will stay in me longer and then that will help with the weight problem. Back to rice. I think I was putting oil on the rice and it was the oil not the rice that was the problem.
I'm just really tired of this! Thanks for listening to me and trying to help figure this out.
Pat
I thought of the blender thing and I tried it but it took too long and made such a mess that I gave up and I wasn't sure if the vegetables were ok for me. I guess I should have more patience with it. I even tried straining V-8. That was a mistake! Then I thought well it was probably the citric acid and the other additives so I blenderized a tomato and other veggies to mimick V-8. Big mistake. I think tomatoes are 100% out and it is not the fiber! Actually tomatoes are a fruit. I guess they are lower in sugar than most fruits. My son took a plant course at UT and he said techically all vegetables and fruits are all vegetables, its just that some are sweeter than others so we call them fruit. I have a real problem with fructose. And yes, Dee, all fruits, even the low fructose ones. Sorbitol in toothpaste is a real problem. (people with DFI also have a problem with sorbitol and the other sugar alcohols) I use Biotene because it has very little sorbitol. It makes me nausceous just to put the regular kind in my mouth. Didn't used to be this way. It got really bad after the Neomycin 2 years ago!
I have added back some rice. I seem to have a real problem with fats even avocados. Fatty meats, olive oil, coconut oil, avocados. I was trying to eat fats at all the dietician's urging to gain weight but I guess I malabsorb it because if I eliminate the fat I do so much better. I have a hard time getting enough calories but maybe if I am not malabsorbing so much foods will stay in me longer and then that will help with the weight problem. Back to rice. I think I was putting oil on the rice and it was the oil not the rice that was the problem.
I'm just really tired of this! Thanks for listening to me and trying to help figure this out.
Pat