I have found it interesting that there is a sudden upswing in research about probiotics. I'm pretty sure just ten years ago talk about leaky gut and probiotics were considered fringy. Happy to see more and more research in support of using probiotics.
But... here are just some of the more recent studies that have caught my attention as they pass through my email...
Bifidobacterium strains suppress in vitro the pro-inflammatory milieu triggered by the large intestinal microbiota of coeliac patients.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18980693 Nov 2008
Secreted bioactive factors from Bifidobacterium infantis enhance epithelial cell barrier function.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18787064 Nov 2008
Live probiotic Bifidobacterium lactis bacteria inhibit the toxic effects induced by wheat gliadin in epithelial cell culture.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18422736 June 2008
Probiotics and autoimmunity: an evolutionary perspective.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entre ... med_DocSum Aug 2007
Lactobacillus rhamnosus alleviates intestinal barrier dysfunction in part by increasing expression of zonula occludens-1 and myosin light-chain kinase in vivo./
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19447972 June 2009
Probiotics
Moderators: Rosie, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
-
no-more-muffins
- Adélie Penguin
- Posts: 90
- Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:37 pm
Muffins,
I was just on a three-day regimen of Cipro to treat a urinary tract infection. I take a non-dairy probiotic every day, but when I'm taking an antibiotic, I also eat non-dairy yogurt. I'm never sure how potent the probiotics are, but I take them anyway.
One of these days I'm going to make a batch of dairy yogurt using my probiotic and the non-dairy yogurt to see how potent they are.
Gloria
I was just on a three-day regimen of Cipro to treat a urinary tract infection. I take a non-dairy probiotic every day, but when I'm taking an antibiotic, I also eat non-dairy yogurt. I'm never sure how potent the probiotics are, but I take them anyway.
One of these days I'm going to make a batch of dairy yogurt using my probiotic and the non-dairy yogurt to see how potent they are.
Gloria
You never know what you can do until you have to do it.
Can probiotics cause D? I was taking some to prevent C. Diff after having my tooth pulled. The **** oral surgeon gave me the drug, I think it was Cleosin, intravenously while I was under. I had specifically asked not to get that drug. I even had him call the endodontist to see what the drug was that he used that was safe.
DISCLAIMER: I am not a doctor and don't play one on TV.
LDN July 18, 2014
Joan
LDN July 18, 2014
Joan
no-more-muffins,
You will probably find this previous discussion on probiotics to be very interesting.
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7052
Here is the article that Polly was referring to, concerning why probiotics will not establish permanent colonies in the gut:
http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/article.cfm?id=378
This is the discussion that preceded the one referenced above:
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewt ... hlight=vsl
Joan,
I would think that probiotics could certainly cause D in some situations. Polly once had a major reaction to Culturelle, for example, though the reaction may have been due to the dairy content.
Tex
You will probably find this previous discussion on probiotics to be very interesting.
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7052
Here is the article that Polly was referring to, concerning why probiotics will not establish permanent colonies in the gut:
http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/article.cfm?id=378
This is the discussion that preceded the one referenced above:
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewt ... hlight=vsl
Joan,
I would think that probiotics could certainly cause D in some situations. Polly once had a major reaction to Culturelle, for example, though the reaction may have been due to the dairy content.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Well, sad to say, as good as the articles on probiotics sound, I still am not aware of anyone with MC, who has seen any significant benefits from using them. Our overactive immune systems may perceive them as irrelevant at best, and undesirable invaders, at worst. Maybe someone can correct me, if they have seen good results.
Tex
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
I have to say, I have not ever noticed any direct benefit for my younger daughter... and we always have to go very slow because of the rumbly tummy they give her...at least initially. I tend to think this may mean she actually needs them 
.
On the other hand, my older daughter was having repeated UTI's... 3-4 a year for a couple of years... until I ordered her a probiotic supposedly good for vaginal and urinary tract health... fem dophilus by Jarrow. I was reading a lot of forums about chronic UTI's and I kept reading over and over that probiotics are what finally worked for people. So.. she took the probiotics for perhaps a month, and had no more UTI's for more than a year. She did get one more over a year later, long after stopping the probiotics, and I suggested she take another round after she finished with the antibiotics.
huh.... while looking for the product, I found this article on medscape (haven't read it yet):
Probiotics in Female Urogenital Healthcare: Probiotics for Vaginal and Bladder Health
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/470468_4
We do try to use probiotics for 2-3 weeks after any course of antibiotic. Beyond that, a 3-4 times a year we may go on them for two or three weeks.... just for good measure... as I believe in trying to maintain as friendly a gut environment as possible. It doesn't solve all problems, but I figure it isn't going to hurt me and may help some.
I was reminded when reading one of the links above about kefir. I know you can make your own coconut kefir (Body Ecology Diet website has instructions), but I'm just not that motivated. I remember hearing from someone, though, after my lamenting that I just want to be able to BUY IT... that it could be purchased. Someone WAS making it, although, that is not as simple as being able to buy it locally. Now, Turtle Mountain/So Delicious is making coconut milk yogurt, which is great btw, yet at this point I still have to drive an hour to a Whole Foods to get it. I might work coconut yogurt or kefir into my diet if it were readly available.
Cara
.On the other hand, my older daughter was having repeated UTI's... 3-4 a year for a couple of years... until I ordered her a probiotic supposedly good for vaginal and urinary tract health... fem dophilus by Jarrow. I was reading a lot of forums about chronic UTI's and I kept reading over and over that probiotics are what finally worked for people. So.. she took the probiotics for perhaps a month, and had no more UTI's for more than a year. She did get one more over a year later, long after stopping the probiotics, and I suggested she take another round after she finished with the antibiotics.
huh.... while looking for the product, I found this article on medscape (haven't read it yet):
Probiotics in Female Urogenital Healthcare: Probiotics for Vaginal and Bladder Health
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/470468_4
We do try to use probiotics for 2-3 weeks after any course of antibiotic. Beyond that, a 3-4 times a year we may go on them for two or three weeks.... just for good measure... as I believe in trying to maintain as friendly a gut environment as possible. It doesn't solve all problems, but I figure it isn't going to hurt me and may help some.
I was reminded when reading one of the links above about kefir. I know you can make your own coconut kefir (Body Ecology Diet website has instructions), but I'm just not that motivated. I remember hearing from someone, though, after my lamenting that I just want to be able to BUY IT... that it could be purchased. Someone WAS making it, although, that is not as simple as being able to buy it locally. Now, Turtle Mountain/So Delicious is making coconut milk yogurt, which is great btw, yet at this point I still have to drive an hour to a Whole Foods to get it. I might work coconut yogurt or kefir into my diet if it were readly available.
Cara
Cara,
I believe you're quite correct in pointing out that probiotics can be successfully used to good advantage in a number of health issues. With IBDs, though, that advantage seems to be very elusive.
It's my understanding that most "enlightened" GI docs recommend "a good" probiotic, (docs such as Ken Fine, and Scot Lewey, for example), but the last I heard, Dr. Fine, was still unable to find a specific probiotic that he recommends, (mostly due to the fact that most of them contain at least traces of lactose, or even casein). I'm not sure if Dr. Lewey actually recommends any of the probiotics that he has written about, (such as VSL#3), or not.
I get the impression that probiotics are best used before the fact, rather than after some dire situation has befallen the intestinal environment, (notwithstanding current research to the contrary). I have a hunch that bacterial overgrowth, (or bacterial imbalance), frequently plays an important role in events leading up to diseases such as MC, (and probably other IBDs), but once the disease is triggered, it's a bit late to try to correct the problem, because by then, important genes have been altered, (and though we are aware of a few of these gene alterations, we have no information on the full extent of those transformations), and those permanent changes may possibly prevent restoration of the original gut flora and fauna pattern, which is so unique for each of us. Or, looking at this another way, our original unique pattern of gut bacteria populations, may no longer be the optimum configuration for us. It could even be possible that an optimum gut bacteria population balance no longer exists for us, on a practical basis, since there is currently no known way to establish permanent populations in the gut, of introduced symbiotic bacteria. IOW, once we lose our original "personalized" bacterial balance, in some cases at least, it may well be gone forever. Does any of this make any sense?
Tex
I believe you're quite correct in pointing out that probiotics can be successfully used to good advantage in a number of health issues. With IBDs, though, that advantage seems to be very elusive.
It's my understanding that most "enlightened" GI docs recommend "a good" probiotic, (docs such as Ken Fine, and Scot Lewey, for example), but the last I heard, Dr. Fine, was still unable to find a specific probiotic that he recommends, (mostly due to the fact that most of them contain at least traces of lactose, or even casein). I'm not sure if Dr. Lewey actually recommends any of the probiotics that he has written about, (such as VSL#3), or not.
I get the impression that probiotics are best used before the fact, rather than after some dire situation has befallen the intestinal environment, (notwithstanding current research to the contrary). I have a hunch that bacterial overgrowth, (or bacterial imbalance), frequently plays an important role in events leading up to diseases such as MC, (and probably other IBDs), but once the disease is triggered, it's a bit late to try to correct the problem, because by then, important genes have been altered, (and though we are aware of a few of these gene alterations, we have no information on the full extent of those transformations), and those permanent changes may possibly prevent restoration of the original gut flora and fauna pattern, which is so unique for each of us. Or, looking at this another way, our original unique pattern of gut bacteria populations, may no longer be the optimum configuration for us. It could even be possible that an optimum gut bacteria population balance no longer exists for us, on a practical basis, since there is currently no known way to establish permanent populations in the gut, of introduced symbiotic bacteria. IOW, once we lose our original "personalized" bacterial balance, in some cases at least, it may well be gone forever. Does any of this make any sense?
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Well I have been the odd woman out most of life. This is just further proof.
After 21 days on probiotics (yogurt) I am feeling extremely good. No gut rumblings at all. No D at all. I have also quit drinking. Just for general purposes, I felt I needed to clean up my act in that regard anyway. And I was also taking Ibuprohen, what a big dummy, I tossed it in the trash.
Oh and also BEWARE of statin drugs!
I am pretty damn sure that is what set me off after being in remission for 2 and a half years. They are in the trash too!
You guys are great, I plan on hanging around a bit anyway, just because, but I feel I really don't have anything to add or can help anybody. I am almost ashamed to even mention that I have no food intolerances, nothing that I can ever notice anyway.
But I sure know what it is like being a potty person!
Deb
After 21 days on probiotics (yogurt) I am feeling extremely good. No gut rumblings at all. No D at all. I have also quit drinking. Just for general purposes, I felt I needed to clean up my act in that regard anyway. And I was also taking Ibuprohen, what a big dummy, I tossed it in the trash.
Oh and also BEWARE of statin drugs!
I am pretty damn sure that is what set me off after being in remission for 2 and a half years. They are in the trash too!You guys are great, I plan on hanging around a bit anyway, just because, but I feel I really don't have anything to add or can help anybody. I am almost ashamed to even mention that I have no food intolerances, nothing that I can ever notice anyway.
But I sure know what it is like being a potty person!
Deb
Hypothyroid 06/01
LC 12/06
Dwell on the positive.
Happiness is a result of a decision to be happy.
LC 12/06
Dwell on the positive.
Happiness is a result of a decision to be happy.
Thank you Joan. 
It really helped me coming on here, I was really quite down in the mouth about my recent flare up. What a nightmare, for all of us who have MC.
I never would have thought about trying probitiocs if not for this forum and some of the stuff I read.
Deb
It really helped me coming on here, I was really quite down in the mouth about my recent flare up. What a nightmare, for all of us who have MC.
I never would have thought about trying probitiocs if not for this forum and some of the stuff I read.
Deb
Hypothyroid 06/01
LC 12/06
Dwell on the positive.
Happiness is a result of a decision to be happy.
LC 12/06
Dwell on the positive.
Happiness is a result of a decision to be happy.
Deb,
You're additional proof that we're all different. You keep repeating that you don't feel that you can help anyone, but that's an unjustified claim. You've probably helped someone, somewhere, with the posts you've just written, to say nothing of all your other helpful posts in the past.
Please don't think that you aren't qualified to offer advice, just because your symptoms, or your response to treatment, is different from many of the rest of us. There is no one-treatment-fits-all, for MC, and with a tricky disease like this, anything that works for someone, is worth considering by anyone else, in a similar situation. We all have to select a treatment program that works best for us, individually, but in order to settle on the best plan, we have to know what all the options are, and obviously, one of them is probiotics.
Also, you don't have to feel "guilty" about not having any food intolerances.
We won't hold that against you. Actually, I'd bet a GF cookie, that you do have food intolerances, but you're asymptomatic. If that's the case, it may not be a cause for concern, because even though many "authorities" still claim that untreated celiac disease can have all sorts of dire consequences, even in asymptomatic cases; I've seen claims to the contrary, that point out that asymptomatic celiacs don't run any higher risk of "adverse consequences", than the general population. IOW, only those with actual symptoms, who eschew treatment, are at increased risk of non-Hodgkins lymphoma, and related carcinomas.
Soooooo, don't apologize for promoting probiotics. For all we know, they may be the treatment wave of the future, possibly for all IBDs, after their formulations undergo a bit of tweaking.
We appreciate your input, (and your sense of humor, of course).
Tex
You're additional proof that we're all different. You keep repeating that you don't feel that you can help anyone, but that's an unjustified claim. You've probably helped someone, somewhere, with the posts you've just written, to say nothing of all your other helpful posts in the past.
Please don't think that you aren't qualified to offer advice, just because your symptoms, or your response to treatment, is different from many of the rest of us. There is no one-treatment-fits-all, for MC, and with a tricky disease like this, anything that works for someone, is worth considering by anyone else, in a similar situation. We all have to select a treatment program that works best for us, individually, but in order to settle on the best plan, we have to know what all the options are, and obviously, one of them is probiotics.
Also, you don't have to feel "guilty" about not having any food intolerances.
We won't hold that against you. Actually, I'd bet a GF cookie, that you do have food intolerances, but you're asymptomatic. If that's the case, it may not be a cause for concern, because even though many "authorities" still claim that untreated celiac disease can have all sorts of dire consequences, even in asymptomatic cases; I've seen claims to the contrary, that point out that asymptomatic celiacs don't run any higher risk of "adverse consequences", than the general population. IOW, only those with actual symptoms, who eschew treatment, are at increased risk of non-Hodgkins lymphoma, and related carcinomas.Soooooo, don't apologize for promoting probiotics. For all we know, they may be the treatment wave of the future, possibly for all IBDs, after their formulations undergo a bit of tweaking.
We appreciate your input, (and your sense of humor, of course).
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Well I tell ya, three times in the last 8 years, after much research on the internent, I suspected gluten intolerance. It seemed to be the only thing that explained to me the rumbling, the bloating and explosive D, then I ran across MC..Bingo !! I did have an endoscopsy and my GI found nothing to suggest celiacs, of course we know that might not mean anything.
But anyway, I just go by how I am feeling and I feel great. But now I am even more aware of what problems could be lurking out here for me diet wise.
Ok thanks, I'll sure keep putting in my two cents worth. And you are right, some thing any one of us says about our condition might just click for somebody else. I am sure there are many lurkers. And I am amazed, there seems to be a new member on a daily basis on here, makes me really wonder how many of us are out there!
I do agree that many many cases of what "they' just dismiss as IBS is in reality MC.
I really got tired of some people just assuming I was a Nervous Nellie who had bowel issues.
I knew damn well there was something wrong and it wasn't me overwrought emotionally! "Oh just take some imodium and try not to worry about things!"
Ah feels good to vent.
But anyway, I just go by how I am feeling and I feel great. But now I am even more aware of what problems could be lurking out here for me diet wise.
Ok thanks, I'll sure keep putting in my two cents worth. And you are right, some thing any one of us says about our condition might just click for somebody else. I am sure there are many lurkers. And I am amazed, there seems to be a new member on a daily basis on here, makes me really wonder how many of us are out there!
I do agree that many many cases of what "they' just dismiss as IBS is in reality MC.
I really got tired of some people just assuming I was a Nervous Nellie who had bowel issues.
I knew damn well there was something wrong and it wasn't me overwrought emotionally! "Oh just take some imodium and try not to worry about things!"Ah feels good to vent.
Hypothyroid 06/01
LC 12/06
Dwell on the positive.
Happiness is a result of a decision to be happy.
LC 12/06
Dwell on the positive.
Happiness is a result of a decision to be happy.