Hello from a new member

[Roger]

Hello, Everyone,

I join this group on behalf of a close relative with LC.

The most pressing issue is to find a diet program. Very clear from this group and research work I've done are the foods that must be avoided (in my relatives case it's dairy, caffeine ... the usual suspects, except possibly gluten); but what foods - diet are especially recommended for suffers of LC/MC?

My research of books makes me suspect a strong overlap with the diet recommended for those with IBS. There are few if any books specific to LC/MC as there are to IBS and UC. How well would a diet book for those with IBS work for those with LC/MC?

As my work progresses I plan to post a bibliography of books and literature provided there's enough interest.

Thanks!

Roger

[Jan]

Roger,

I'm not sure there is a list of foods for colitis folks. If you read a lot of the posts you will find that each one of us is different in our reactions to food. From my own experience, I found that fruits and veggies that were raw really irritated my bowel and caused things to get worse.

You might have your relative keep a food diary for a while to see if there are things that cause more problems than other. A couple of folks use a rotation diet (not eating the same thing for a 3 or 4 day cycle) to help in this.

Good luck,
Jan

[tex]

Hi Roger,

Welcome aboard. Officially, (according to the medical community), there are no diet recommendations for MC. The majority of GI docs will tell you that diet has nothing to do with MC and it's symptoms. We, of course, (most members here), disagree, and we feel that diet has everything to do with diseases of the digestive system, and especially the inflammatory bowel diseases, (including MC). As Jan pointed out, we are all different, so we have no one-size-fits-all diet for MC. The closest thing to that would be, I suppose, the paleo diet, but most of us do not have to be quite that aggressive with our diet eliminations.

The primary problem with the diets recommended for IBS, is that they encourage high fiber intake, which is virtually guaranteed to make the symptoms of MC, much worse, at least until the gut has had sufficient time to heal. Most of us can handle reasonable amounts of fiber, after we have been in remission for a while, but until then, fiber has a very negative effect, since it tends to irritate an already hyper-sensitive gut. Because of that, fiber will prolong flares, and postpone remission, in most cases.

You mentioned that in you friend's case, gluten is excluded as a suspect food. That is certainly possible, but I'm curious how you or your friend managed to determine that. The reason I ask, is because very, very few of us here are not gluten sensitive.

Speaking of IBS, how well do the diets recommend for IBS, actually control the condition? Many people here were initially told that they had IBS, simply because IBS is a default diagnosis. If a doctor cannot find anything else wrong with a patient, then the diagnosis, (by default), is IBS. In most cases, the difference between IBS and MC, seems to be a biopsy. IOW, if a GI doc has the presence of mind to take biopsies, while doing a colonoscopy, (or sigmoidoscopy), the diagnosis often "magically" changes from IBS to MC.

If IBS exists, then it does not involve intestinal inflammation, (by definition). MC is an inflammatory bowel disease, and as such, it's a "different kind of cat", as they say. There are no valid books describing the treatment of MC, because the medical community does not understand MC, and as a group, they are quite confused about how it should be treated. There are a handful of GI docs, who are exceptions, of course, but currently, about 99.9% of the world's GI doctors do not understand MC, and therefore they are not able to effectively treat it. I certainly don't pretend to be familiar with all the books written about IBS, but I would be very surprised if the type of diet recommended by most of those books, would allow someone with MC to achieve remission.

If you will search these forums, you will find that there have been many discussions about this in the past, and a lot of references have been cited.

Again, welcome to the group.

Tex (Wayne)

[Polly]

Hi Roger and

When I first was diagnosed with MC, I tried the IBS diet recommended in the book
by Gottshalk (sp) on "Breaking the Cycle, etc.". Unfortunately, this diet doesn't work well for most with MC. It does eliminate gluten, which is good, but it allows some dairy, in the form of homemade yogurt. Most of us with gluten intolerance have a full dairy intolerance and can't eat that yogurt.

As Tex said, if one has multiple food intolerances the paleo diet is the best. It eliminates all grains, all dairy, and all legumes, including soy and beans of any kind.

Good luck with your search!

Polly

[starfire]

Hi Roger,

Welcome to our "home" and I hope you will be able to help your friend. Perhaps your firend will even join also.

Shirley

[Roger]

Thanks everyone for such a warm welcome to the group! I quickly come to see how everyone here is at the vanguard to build awareness and knowledge of a most pernicious disease.

I also appreciate the prompt and thoughtful responses to my questions. There will likely be a few follow-up questions in a posting I will have to the group in the next few days after I hear from my relative.

I will look for opportunity to contribute to this group with the results of my self-directed studies. This is a profound opportunity to make a positive difference!

Again, you have my humble thanks.

-- Roger

[Roger]

Thanks again, Tex for your valuable response. It lead to a few follow-up questions that I have below each quoted paragraph. -- Roger

Hi Roger,

Welcome aboard. Officially, (according to the medical community), there are no diet recommendations for MC. The majority of GI docs will tell you that diet has nothing to do with MC and it's symptoms. We, of course, (most members here), disagree, and we feel that diet has everything to do with diseases of the digestive system, and especially the inflammatory bowel diseases, (including MC). As Jan pointed out, we are all different, so we have no one-size-fits-all diet for MC. The closest thing to that would be, I suppose, the paleo diet, but most of us do not have to be quite that aggressive with our diet eliminations.

The primary problem with the diets recommended for IBS, is that they encourage high fiber intake, which is virtually guaranteed to make the symptoms of MC, much worse, at least until the gut has had sufficient time to heal. Most of us can handle reasonable amounts of fiber, after we have been in remission for a while, but until then, fiber has a very negative effect, since it tends to irritate an already hyper-sensitive gut. Because of that, fiber will prolong flares, and postpone remission, in most cases.

Would that include soluble fibers as well?

My relative ate oatmeal frequently, which in hindsight I strongly suspect exacerbated her still undiagnosed MC at the time. She's since stopped with oatmeal and other high grain foods.

You mentioned that in you friend's case, gluten is excluded as a suspect food. That is certainly possible, but I'm curious how you or your friend managed to determine that. The reason I ask, is because very, very few of us here are not gluten sensitive.

We're still open to the possibility, even probability that gluten may be a problem. The impression I got from the medical literature was a false black and white one: Gluten sensitivity equals celiac disease. But now I'm learning with the help of the postings here that a sharp line doesn't necessarily exist; that is, a person may not suffer from celiac but still be sensitive to gluten. Would you agree?

I need to continue to encourage my friend to keep a thorough food log so we might eventually use its results to tease out a possible gluten sensitivity.

Speaking of IBS, how well do the diets recommend for IBS, actually control the condition? Many people here were initially told that they had IBS, simply because IBS is a default diagnosis. If a doctor cannot find anything else wrong with a patient, then the diagnosis, (by default), is IBS. In most cases, the difference between IBS and MC, seems to be a biopsy. IOW, if a GI doc has the presence of mind to take biopsies, while doing a colonoscopy, (or sigmoidoscopy), the diagnosis often "magically" changes from IBS to MC.

If IBS exists, then it does not involve intestinal inflammation, (by definition). MC is an inflammatory bowel disease, and as such, it's a "different kind of cat", as they say. There are no valid books describing the treatment of MC, because the medical community does not understand MC, and as a group, they are quite confused about how it should be treated. There are a handful of GI docs, who are exceptions, of course, but currently, about 99.9% of the world's GI doctors do not understand MC, and therefore they are not able to effectively treat it. I certainly don't pretend to be familiar with all the books written about IBS, but I would be very surprised if the type of diet recommended by most of those books, would allow someone with MC to achieve remission.

Of the IBS books I've looked over so far, most seem to go by the exclusion principle, for example: Eliminate caffeine and spicy foods, etc. (which for me worked very well, as a former sufferer of IBS). As to inclusion of various foods on the other hand, there doesn't seem to be a clear consensus yet. There is more agreement on the benefits of reducing stress, e.g. with relaxation exercises and meditation, lifestyle changes and so forth. Does managing stress have much evidence for benefit to suffers of MC as well, I wonder?

If you will search these forums, you will find that there have been many discussions about this in the past, and a lot of references have been cited.

I'll continue with my reading of this group's postings! Thanks!

Again, welcome to the group.

Tex (Wayne)

[tex]

Would that include soluble fibers as well?

My relative ate oatmeal frequently, which in hindsight I strongly suspect exacerbated her still undiagnosed MC at the time. She's since stopped with oatmeal and other high grain foods.

It would, to some extent, but insoluble fiber is a much greater problem for most of us. We can usually tolerate a reasonable amount of soluble fiber. It varies by the individual, of course.

Several of us on this board are intolerant to the avenin in oats, including myself. Avenin is the prolamin protein equivalent of gluten in wheat, but it is not nearly as potent as gluten.

We're still open to the possibility, even probability that gluten may be a problem. The impression I got from the medical literature was a false black and white one: Gluten sensitivity equals celiac disease. But now I'm learning with the help of the postings here that a sharp line doesn't necessarily exist; that is, a person may not suffer from celiac but still be sensitive to gluten. Would you agree?

I need to continue to encourage my friend to keep a thorough food log so we might eventually use its results to tease out a possible gluten sensitivity.

Yes, I definitely agree. That's the gist of the primary argument that we have with the mainstream medical community. They insist that a spectrum of gluten sensitivity does not exist, which is obviously incorrect, based on the experience of thousands of individuals who test negative to the classic celiac diagnostic criteria, and yet they are clearly adversely affected by gluten, just as severly as celiacs.

Yes, a food diary can be very helpful for pinpointing food intolerances. It can be difficult to detect gluten sensitivity with a food log, though, because gluten tends to keep the intestines inflamed for long periods of time, since it actually causes physical damage to the lining of the intestines, (the epithelia), so that it can sometimes seem that virtually anything eaten can cause a reaction.

Of the IBS books I've looked over so far, most seem to go by the exclusion principle, for example: Eliminate caffeine and spicy foods, etc. (which for me worked very well, as a former sufferer of IBS). As to inclusion of various foods on the other hand, there doesn't seem to be a clear consensus yet. There is more agreement on the benefits of reducing stress, e.g. with relaxation exercises and meditation, lifestyle changes and so forth. Does managing stress have much evidence for benefit to suffers of MC as well, I wonder?

While stress by itself, has never been documented to trigger MC, it can and will definitely make reactions worse, and it can prolong them. Minimizing stress is always a step in the right direction for everyone, regardless of whether or not they have IBS, MC, or any other condition. Stress tends to aggravate any symptoms that we might have. Some MC patients benefit from an antidepressant, or an anti-anxiety med, because the debilitating nature of the disease tends to have depressing effects.

Many people diagnosed with diarrhea-predominant IBS, have spastic colons, which can sometimes benefit from the use of an antispasmotic, such as hyoscyamine. Some doctors prescribe an antispasmotic for MC, also, but it seldom provides any significant long-term benefit, because it does nothing to address the primary problem, which is inflammation.

Most of us have found that contrary to what the medical authorities claim, avoiding caffeine makes little difference in our symptoms. If the first cup of coffee in the morning sent someone to the bathroom before they developed MC, then it will probably continue to do so, after they have MC. IOW, it will probably continue to have the same effect that it has always had, which varies by the individual, of course.

You're most welcome,
Tex

[Roger]

I appreciate your valuable information. My studies of the postings on this site continue with follow-up questions to come on the message boards related to diet and medication.

Please stay tuned!

Sincerely,

Roger