Imuran Question
Moderators: Rosie, Jean, CAMary, moremuscle, JFR, Dee, xet, Peggy, Matthew, Gabes-Apg, grannyh, Gloria, Mars, starfire, Polly, Joefnh
Rose,
Sorry this took so long - I had to work on another project for a while.
Most authors who dis caffeine, just use a blanket condemnation for everything that is "bad" in the world, such as "alcohol and caffeine are strong gut irritants", or something to that effect, and they never even attempt to explain why they feel that way. I suspect that they are generally referring to caffeine's tendency to stimulate the body, while simultaneously raising the levels of dopamine, so that the body finds pleasure in the experience, and thus ignores the taxing effects of the increased adrenaline level. IOW, it tends to drain energy unnecessarily, by inciting a fight or flight response in the body, (a state of "heightened alertness"), while encouraging the brain to ignore the additional need for rest, that has been created.
The main issue that I can see, after thinking about this for a while, is that when the adrenal glands are stimulated, (IOW, when adrenaline is produced), this has the effect of raising the glucose level in the bloodstream, (as part of the fight or flight response - IOW it makes sure the body has extra glucose available as fuel, in case the need for it actually becomes a reality). That also makes it available for candida, of course. This would especially be a problem for diabetics, and this is presumably why most candida sites list diabetes as an increased risk factor for a candida overgrowth.
Sooooooo, it appears that in this situation, caffeine would indeed be detrimental. How much so, I have no idea, since the statistics on that are probably not available, due to the fact that there is probably a great degree of variability in how individuals respond in a situation such as that. For virtually everyone, after a long history of regular caffeine use, the more caffeine you ingest, the more of it you require to achieve the same uplifting effect.
All these disclaimers, by medical experts, disregard that simple fact. IMO, if you have a long history of drinking coffee, (caffeine), in significant amounts, then your body has long been somewhat desensitized to it, and if you simply can't face avoiding it altogether, then reducing the "dose" significantly, would probably significantly reduce your adrenaline response to it. IOW, if a reduced "dose" of coffee were your only concession in an otherwise rigorous treatment program, it probably wouldn't be the end of the world, if you continued to drink it, as long as you significantly reduced the amount, (or used a brand with a lower caffeine content).
The medical establishment tends to have a rather simplistic approach to almost everything. They pretend that there is no gray area between the right way to do something, and the wrong way. An example of this is allergy tests. All authorities insist that either you are intolerant to an item, or you are not, and there is no leeway for any allowances in between. The reality of the situation is, though, that there is indeed a gray area, because we all have varying degrees of sensitivity, which means that we have statistically different thresholds for the amount of allergen that it takes to cause us to react. True, these thresholds are very low for most of us, but the fact remains that there is a spectrum of sensitivities - we are all different.
I'm convinced that you would never be able to get most doctors to admit that these spectrums exist , but our collective experience follows that type of pattern, and in addition, any other conclusion would be contrary to logic, anyway. Sooooooo, I doubt that your doctor would ever be willing to "approve" any caffeine consumption during your treatment, and if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't try to argue the point, (nor would I drink any while I was in the doctor's office. LOL).
A few years ago, when an extra-strong gust of wind caused me to lose my balance, as I was climbing into the back of a semi-trailer, and in the resulting fall, I broke my left arm, the doctor in the ER, who set the arm, and splinted it, noticed the cigars in my shirt pocket, and candidly advised me, in his most professional tone, that I would have to stop smoking them, because "they would slow down the healing process". Now if he had told me that they were a bad habit, and they were hazardous to my health, I would have totally agreed with him. But "slow down the healing process"? It's certainly possible that they did, but they couldn't have slowed it down by more than about 10 minutes in six weeks, because the splint came off two weeks earlier than scheduled. I guess that since I looked like an ignorant old country boy, he just assumed that I was a gullible old country boy, as well.
If you decide to make your own decisions about whether or not to use caffeine during a candida treatment, please use good judgment, and be honest with yourself, and most of all, remember - I'm not a doctor, and I don't play one on tv, either.
Love,
Tex
Sorry this took so long - I had to work on another project for a while.
Most authors who dis caffeine, just use a blanket condemnation for everything that is "bad" in the world, such as "alcohol and caffeine are strong gut irritants", or something to that effect, and they never even attempt to explain why they feel that way. I suspect that they are generally referring to caffeine's tendency to stimulate the body, while simultaneously raising the levels of dopamine, so that the body finds pleasure in the experience, and thus ignores the taxing effects of the increased adrenaline level. IOW, it tends to drain energy unnecessarily, by inciting a fight or flight response in the body, (a state of "heightened alertness"), while encouraging the brain to ignore the additional need for rest, that has been created.
The main issue that I can see, after thinking about this for a while, is that when the adrenal glands are stimulated, (IOW, when adrenaline is produced), this has the effect of raising the glucose level in the bloodstream, (as part of the fight or flight response - IOW it makes sure the body has extra glucose available as fuel, in case the need for it actually becomes a reality). That also makes it available for candida, of course. This would especially be a problem for diabetics, and this is presumably why most candida sites list diabetes as an increased risk factor for a candida overgrowth.
Sooooooo, it appears that in this situation, caffeine would indeed be detrimental. How much so, I have no idea, since the statistics on that are probably not available, due to the fact that there is probably a great degree of variability in how individuals respond in a situation such as that. For virtually everyone, after a long history of regular caffeine use, the more caffeine you ingest, the more of it you require to achieve the same uplifting effect.
All these disclaimers, by medical experts, disregard that simple fact. IMO, if you have a long history of drinking coffee, (caffeine), in significant amounts, then your body has long been somewhat desensitized to it, and if you simply can't face avoiding it altogether, then reducing the "dose" significantly, would probably significantly reduce your adrenaline response to it. IOW, if a reduced "dose" of coffee were your only concession in an otherwise rigorous treatment program, it probably wouldn't be the end of the world, if you continued to drink it, as long as you significantly reduced the amount, (or used a brand with a lower caffeine content).
The medical establishment tends to have a rather simplistic approach to almost everything. They pretend that there is no gray area between the right way to do something, and the wrong way. An example of this is allergy tests. All authorities insist that either you are intolerant to an item, or you are not, and there is no leeway for any allowances in between. The reality of the situation is, though, that there is indeed a gray area, because we all have varying degrees of sensitivity, which means that we have statistically different thresholds for the amount of allergen that it takes to cause us to react. True, these thresholds are very low for most of us, but the fact remains that there is a spectrum of sensitivities - we are all different.
I'm convinced that you would never be able to get most doctors to admit that these spectrums exist , but our collective experience follows that type of pattern, and in addition, any other conclusion would be contrary to logic, anyway. Sooooooo, I doubt that your doctor would ever be willing to "approve" any caffeine consumption during your treatment, and if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't try to argue the point, (nor would I drink any while I was in the doctor's office. LOL).
A few years ago, when an extra-strong gust of wind caused me to lose my balance, as I was climbing into the back of a semi-trailer, and in the resulting fall, I broke my left arm, the doctor in the ER, who set the arm, and splinted it, noticed the cigars in my shirt pocket, and candidly advised me, in his most professional tone, that I would have to stop smoking them, because "they would slow down the healing process". Now if he had told me that they were a bad habit, and they were hazardous to my health, I would have totally agreed with him. But "slow down the healing process"? It's certainly possible that they did, but they couldn't have slowed it down by more than about 10 minutes in six weeks, because the splint came off two weeks earlier than scheduled. I guess that since I looked like an ignorant old country boy, he just assumed that I was a gullible old country boy, as well.
If you decide to make your own decisions about whether or not to use caffeine during a candida treatment, please use good judgment, and be honest with yourself, and most of all, remember - I'm not a doctor, and I don't play one on tv, either.
Love,
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Rose,
Lomotil doesn't work for me either. My previous doctor wasn't talking about Lomotil, he was talking about a triplicate prescription tincture of opium, a controlled drug. Just didn't sound like my cup of tea, but if this anti-yeast diet and meds don't work I may give it a whirl. I'm betting on the anti-yeast diet though.
Tex,
I guess I missed where it said that bananas were ok on the yeast free diet. My new doctor said no to them but since I am so thin and the D she said well maybe I should. I think maybe she is more interested in having a weight loss clinic and somehow treats yeast overgrowth too. I don't think she has had someone like me before. I guess I am using her for the drugs, Diflucan and Nystatin. I feel like a junkie.
Pat
Lomotil doesn't work for me either. My previous doctor wasn't talking about Lomotil, he was talking about a triplicate prescription tincture of opium, a controlled drug. Just didn't sound like my cup of tea, but if this anti-yeast diet and meds don't work I may give it a whirl. I'm betting on the anti-yeast diet though.
Tex,
I guess I missed where it said that bananas were ok on the yeast free diet. My new doctor said no to them but since I am so thin and the D she said well maybe I should. I think maybe she is more interested in having a weight loss clinic and somehow treats yeast overgrowth too. I don't think she has had someone like me before. I guess I am using her for the drugs, Diflucan and Nystatin. I feel like a junkie.
Pat
Pat,
I have to admit that it sounds suspicious to me, too, but I got that from the site at the following link. As they say, there is a lot of disagreement on what is "proper" for a candida diet.
http://ibdcrohns.about.com/cs/candida/a/candida.htm
Tex
I have to admit that it sounds suspicious to me, too, but I got that from the site at the following link. As they say, there is a lot of disagreement on what is "proper" for a candida diet.
http://ibdcrohns.about.com/cs/candida/a/candida.htm
That amounts to a lot of excepted fruits, and I've always thought that most of them contain a lot of sugar, but I could be wrong.Treatment of Candidiasis
Once the diagnosis is made, treatment can begin. Treatment usually involves a strict diet along with some anti-fungal medication and acidophilus and bifidus supplements. There is no definitive candidiasis diet that every practitioner and sufferer agrees upon. A list of the more common foods to avoid appears below.
* Alcoholic beverages.
* Caffeine.
* Cheese.
* Chocolate.
* Fruits (except for grapefruit, lemon, lime, tangerines, strawberries, cranberries, kiwi, currants, mangoes, bananas & fresh pineapple). Includes fruit juices.
* Refined Sugars.
* Left over food (which may contain mold even if refrigerated).
* Mushrooms
* Nuts.
* Soda Pop
* Yeasts.
o Foods enriched with yeast (crackers, pasta, etc.).
o Breads that contain yeast.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Hi Pat,
If you think Candida may be a problem, you will get best results by taking some anti-parasitics with the diet. Wormwood or Pau D'Arco are the most common main ingredients.
Hit the beggars while they are starving.
Take your anti-parasitics with meals and your pro-biotics between meals so they don't interfere with each other. No point killing off the good bugs.
Lyn
If you think Candida may be a problem, you will get best results by taking some anti-parasitics with the diet. Wormwood or Pau D'Arco are the most common main ingredients.
Hit the beggars while they are starving.
Take your anti-parasitics with meals and your pro-biotics between meals so they don't interfere with each other. No point killing off the good bugs.
Lyn
Tex,
Thank you for getting me the info on coffee. I drink my coffee very weak b/c if it is strong it does upset my stomach. In fact, I have to make a separate pot for my husband. I think that I will get this confirmed b/f I take such drastic measures of eliminating my daily brew. But if it is, then I must and therefore another reason for my dh to "dig a hole in the backyard for me." One other thing, I saw on a site that there is a spit test you can do to test this at home. It sounded kindof bogus to me, you spit in a glass of water (not tap water) first thing in the morning and wait, I think 15 minutes, then if the spit is stringing down or floating specks or sitting at the bottom of the glass than you have yeast overgrowth. Ok, I think that your spit can only do those three things, I mean what else can it do - disappear.
Oh yeah, Tex, I meant to tell you that when I did my 72 hour fecal count, I was tested also tested for small bowel bacteria overgrowth and it came back negative. Does that mean that I do not have a yeast problem? I just now remember this.
You are so right about the medical establishment, everything is by the book and if it is not there than it can't be true. Look at most of us with our GI's. He makes me feel like a looney bird.
BTW, it looks like your cigars helped the healing process.
Pat,
Opiates and me don't mix. While I was on the Lomotil I started having panic attacks. One day I actually thought that I was having a heart attack. I just totally freaked out. I just rather stay away from them if I can.
BTW, if the drugs are working, then use her you must.
Love,
Rose
Thank you for getting me the info on coffee. I drink my coffee very weak b/c if it is strong it does upset my stomach. In fact, I have to make a separate pot for my husband. I think that I will get this confirmed b/f I take such drastic measures of eliminating my daily brew. But if it is, then I must and therefore another reason for my dh to "dig a hole in the backyard for me." One other thing, I saw on a site that there is a spit test you can do to test this at home. It sounded kindof bogus to me, you spit in a glass of water (not tap water) first thing in the morning and wait, I think 15 minutes, then if the spit is stringing down or floating specks or sitting at the bottom of the glass than you have yeast overgrowth. Ok, I think that your spit can only do those three things, I mean what else can it do - disappear.
Oh yeah, Tex, I meant to tell you that when I did my 72 hour fecal count, I was tested also tested for small bowel bacteria overgrowth and it came back negative. Does that mean that I do not have a yeast problem? I just now remember this.
You are so right about the medical establishment, everything is by the book and if it is not there than it can't be true. Look at most of us with our GI's. He makes me feel like a looney bird.
BTW, it looks like your cigars helped the healing process.
Pat,
Opiates and me don't mix. While I was on the Lomotil I started having panic attacks. One day I actually thought that I was having a heart attack. I just totally freaked out. I just rather stay away from them if I can.
BTW, if the drugs are working, then use her you must.
Love,
Rose
Rose,
I've heard various versions of the "spit test". I was thinking that most of the ones I've seen claim that if your saliva floats on the surface, you're yeast-free, but if it strings vertically, you may have a yeast overgrowth. When I was healing, I tried it a few times, with mixed results, but I have no idea if it has any validity or not. We've talked about this "test" before. I notice that the site describing the test, which I referenced in one of my posts, is no longer available:
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewt ... =spit+test
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewt ... =spit+test
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewt ... =spit+test
Yeast, bacterial overgrowth, and/or parasites can be present individually, or in any combination, I would think. I suspect that if one becomes established, then it would be easier for one of the others to gain a toe-hold, also, because once the pH gets knocked out of line, then that makes it much easier for all sorts of nasty things to happen. Lyn probably knows a lot more about this than I do. Here's an extensive article on candida and bacterial overgrowth:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... i_n6155923
Love,
Tex
I've heard various versions of the "spit test". I was thinking that most of the ones I've seen claim that if your saliva floats on the surface, you're yeast-free, but if it strings vertically, you may have a yeast overgrowth. When I was healing, I tried it a few times, with mixed results, but I have no idea if it has any validity or not. We've talked about this "test" before. I notice that the site describing the test, which I referenced in one of my posts, is no longer available:
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewt ... =spit+test
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewt ... =spit+test
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewt ... =spit+test
Yeast, bacterial overgrowth, and/or parasites can be present individually, or in any combination, I would think. I suspect that if one becomes established, then it would be easier for one of the others to gain a toe-hold, also, because once the pH gets knocked out of line, then that makes it much easier for all sorts of nasty things to happen. Lyn probably knows a lot more about this than I do. Here's an extensive article on candida and bacterial overgrowth:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... i_n6155923
Love,
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Tex,
That is a very interesting article. Even though I did not test positive for bacterial overgrowth last year, I think and I will still have my GP take some blood and check me again.
I love that just about everyone tried the spit test. I will try to find the web site that I was looking at yesterday.
Love,
Rose
That is a very interesting article. Even though I did not test positive for bacterial overgrowth last year, I think and I will still have my GP take some blood and check me again.
I love that just about everyone tried the spit test. I will try to find the web site that I was looking at yesterday.
Love,
Rose
Rose,
Thanks for the site name. The key to interpreting the floating saliva, is the tentacles, (stringy legs going downward). I don't remember the cloudy, sinking phase, but maybe I had just forgotten about it. As difficult as it is to get a diagnosis for candida overgrowth, that test may be as good as any.
Love,
Tex
Thanks for the site name. The key to interpreting the floating saliva, is the tentacles, (stringy legs going downward). I don't remember the cloudy, sinking phase, but maybe I had just forgotten about it. As difficult as it is to get a diagnosis for candida overgrowth, that test may be as good as any.
Love,
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Hi Pat,
I have tried a few, and found one called Paracea worked best for me - but what is easy for me to get is probably hard for you and vice versa. This is an area where there is absolutely nothing wrong with just trying one from the HFS. Focus on getting a good dose of either Pau D'arco or Wormwood from three tablets/day. Treat the extra ingredients as just a bonus. Aim for a good dose of one key ingredient rather than a long list of extras. Get one, say the strongest dose of Wormwood you can find, and do a bottle of that, then if you still have problems repeat with one that is strong on Pau D'arco. This is supposed to work better than taking both at once. Apparently they have a different killing action, and work better sequentially.
The worst side effect is they are supposed to cause D for some people for the first day or two - I never noticed that impact, but then I wasn't 'normal' to start with. My naturopath says to introduce them slowly to be safe. So if you are meant to take a tablet three times a day, start by just taking one the first morning, then one morning and night, and then three times a day. Reduce the dose or discontinue if you get any side effects (as you would with any supplement).
And yes, you can get the die off effect - feeling generally crook (ill), headachy, flu like etc. Once again, the slow startup reduces the impact. No hard and fast rule about how long you take them for - it depends on size of the problem, strength of ingredient and how the diet goes. Aim for at least 10-14 days for a 'round' before swapping ingredients.
BTW, good old cinnamon is very good at killing yeasts in the blood - and they can and do cross into the blood stream from the gut. So use it liberally. Garlic, cloves, fennel and oregano also have an impact.
Lyn
I have tried a few, and found one called Paracea worked best for me - but what is easy for me to get is probably hard for you and vice versa. This is an area where there is absolutely nothing wrong with just trying one from the HFS. Focus on getting a good dose of either Pau D'arco or Wormwood from three tablets/day. Treat the extra ingredients as just a bonus. Aim for a good dose of one key ingredient rather than a long list of extras. Get one, say the strongest dose of Wormwood you can find, and do a bottle of that, then if you still have problems repeat with one that is strong on Pau D'arco. This is supposed to work better than taking both at once. Apparently they have a different killing action, and work better sequentially.
The worst side effect is they are supposed to cause D for some people for the first day or two - I never noticed that impact, but then I wasn't 'normal' to start with. My naturopath says to introduce them slowly to be safe. So if you are meant to take a tablet three times a day, start by just taking one the first morning, then one morning and night, and then three times a day. Reduce the dose or discontinue if you get any side effects (as you would with any supplement).
And yes, you can get the die off effect - feeling generally crook (ill), headachy, flu like etc. Once again, the slow startup reduces the impact. No hard and fast rule about how long you take them for - it depends on size of the problem, strength of ingredient and how the diet goes. Aim for at least 10-14 days for a 'round' before swapping ingredients.
BTW, good old cinnamon is very good at killing yeasts in the blood - and they can and do cross into the blood stream from the gut. So use it liberally. Garlic, cloves, fennel and oregano also have an impact.
Lyn
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- Little Blue Penguin
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My god what a thread. I had no idea, Wayne you are a miracle for one thing. And what a trooper!
And all this other stuff. This whole forum, when I read about what so many others are going through. What a nightmare.
Removing colons. What a horrible idea. My mom had a bit of hers removed because of diverticulitis, and hasn't been the same since.
Jeezsus I am reeling!
Deb
And all this other stuff. This whole forum, when I read about what so many others are going through. What a nightmare.
Removing colons. What a horrible idea. My mom had a bit of hers removed because of diverticulitis, and hasn't been the same since.
Jeezsus I am reeling!
Deb
Hypothyroid 06/01
LC 12/06
Dwell on the positive.
Happiness is a result of a decision to be happy.
LC 12/06
Dwell on the positive.
Happiness is a result of a decision to be happy.
Hi Hope,
Well, I had what's known in surgical circles, as a Hartman procedure, and as I mentioned in my first post on the second page of this thread, it was a result of emergency abdominal surgery, because of a stenosis in my Sigmoid colon, that was acting as a blockage. Since the blockage prevented me from "cleaning out", the surgery had to be performed with my guts full, so after the resection, (the removal of the section of my Sigmoid colon containing the stenosis), my colon could not be reconnected, due to the high risk of infection. I tried to talk the surgeon out of it, but he insisted that it was absolutely necessary, and not negotiable. So, I suppose you could say that it helped me by helping to prevent me from having a life-threatening infection. It was supposed to be reversed a few months later, but at the time, I couldn't spare the time away from work, (my work involves a lot of lifting, and heavy lifting is verboten for several months after that type of surgery, due to the risk of a rupture). Since I've never found a convenient time to do it, it still hasn't been reversed. Actually, it's somewhat convenient at times - if I accidentally get glutened, for example, I don't have to run to the bathroom, at least not on an emergency basis. I can take my good old time.
Deb,
Yep, diverticulitis was pretty prominent in my Sigmoid colon, too.
Tex
Well, I had what's known in surgical circles, as a Hartman procedure, and as I mentioned in my first post on the second page of this thread, it was a result of emergency abdominal surgery, because of a stenosis in my Sigmoid colon, that was acting as a blockage. Since the blockage prevented me from "cleaning out", the surgery had to be performed with my guts full, so after the resection, (the removal of the section of my Sigmoid colon containing the stenosis), my colon could not be reconnected, due to the high risk of infection. I tried to talk the surgeon out of it, but he insisted that it was absolutely necessary, and not negotiable. So, I suppose you could say that it helped me by helping to prevent me from having a life-threatening infection. It was supposed to be reversed a few months later, but at the time, I couldn't spare the time away from work, (my work involves a lot of lifting, and heavy lifting is verboten for several months after that type of surgery, due to the risk of a rupture). Since I've never found a convenient time to do it, it still hasn't been reversed. Actually, it's somewhat convenient at times - if I accidentally get glutened, for example, I don't have to run to the bathroom, at least not on an emergency basis. I can take my good old time.
Deb,
Yep, diverticulitis was pretty prominent in my Sigmoid colon, too.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.