staph and MC
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roakes1019
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:21 pm
staph and MC
Has anyone had a relation between staph infection and microscopic colitis? My husband has been diagnosed with MC; however he had a staph infection last January, which was treated. We took him back to the hospital yesterday and noticed staph boils all over his body. Apparently he has reinfected himself. But could the infection in his colon also be related to the staph? Thanks, Betty a major caregiver.
Hi Betty,
I first started showing signs of something not being right back in 1991 when I got a staph infection where both of my legs were suddenly just covered in boils. I've tried lots of antibiotic cocktails - pills, creams, cleansers - but the staph still keeps coming back. I'll think I have it licked and then a few months later there will be another boil. The little buggers come back more resistant each time too. I have multiple digestive tract disorders, so part of my problem was probably that I wasn't absorbing the oral antibiotics in the dose needed to get the full treatment.
If I can catch the first boil or two, I can usually keep it from going systemic now by mincing a fresh garlic clove in a little olive oil, letting it sit for a few minutes to mellow the garlic, then spreading it on the boil. Massage it in a bit. This was a tip a doctor gave me when I lived in California. The sulfur compounds in the garlic kill off the bacteria and the mixture is loaded with antioxidants to help in the repair process. You know you can stick a clove of garlic in your shoe and smell it in your sweat elsewhere on your body, so it has better tissue penetration than a lot of the creams and ointments. It stinks, but it works.
Karen
I first started showing signs of something not being right back in 1991 when I got a staph infection where both of my legs were suddenly just covered in boils. I've tried lots of antibiotic cocktails - pills, creams, cleansers - but the staph still keeps coming back. I'll think I have it licked and then a few months later there will be another boil. The little buggers come back more resistant each time too. I have multiple digestive tract disorders, so part of my problem was probably that I wasn't absorbing the oral antibiotics in the dose needed to get the full treatment.
If I can catch the first boil or two, I can usually keep it from going systemic now by mincing a fresh garlic clove in a little olive oil, letting it sit for a few minutes to mellow the garlic, then spreading it on the boil. Massage it in a bit. This was a tip a doctor gave me when I lived in California. The sulfur compounds in the garlic kill off the bacteria and the mixture is loaded with antioxidants to help in the repair process. You know you can stick a clove of garlic in your shoe and smell it in your sweat elsewhere on your body, so it has better tissue penetration than a lot of the creams and ointments. It stinks, but it works.
Karen
Hi Betty,
Welcome to our internet family. Yes, staph infections do seem to be connected with MC. Many of us have those boils when we are reacting, both in our mouth, and on our skin. Like Karen, I occasionally have one now and then, even now that I am in remission, but nothing like the serious problem that I had before I changed my diet, and achieved remission.
Both the lining of the intestines, and the skin, are, of course, composed of epithelial cells, which have many characteristics in common, and certain immune system responses seem to be connected, (for example, certain food intolerances can cause skin issues such as boils, eczema, dermatitis herpetiformis, etc., while wreaking havoc to the lining of the intestines, as well.
The boils that your husband is suffering from may be an indication that his MC is currently very active, IOW, in a flare, even if he isn't presenting with any other symptoms. Is he receiving any regular treatment to control his MC, such as Entocort, Asacol, Lialda, Colazal, etc., or has he made any changes to diet, to prevent the autoimmune reactions that cause MC?
Frankly, I doubt that the doctors will recognize a connection between the MC and the boils, but the connection is real. Has he been tested for celiac disease? And in connection with that, did they do any culture tests to be sure that the boils are caused by staph germs, and not a result of dermatitis herpetiformis, (caused by gluten sensitivity)? The fact is, one can have dermatitis herpetiformis, without presenting any other celiac symptoms, but most doctors are not aware of that fact, either.
Good luck with this, and please don't hesitate to ask any questions that come to mind. Again, welcome aboard.
Tex (Wayne)
Welcome to our internet family. Yes, staph infections do seem to be connected with MC. Many of us have those boils when we are reacting, both in our mouth, and on our skin. Like Karen, I occasionally have one now and then, even now that I am in remission, but nothing like the serious problem that I had before I changed my diet, and achieved remission.
Both the lining of the intestines, and the skin, are, of course, composed of epithelial cells, which have many characteristics in common, and certain immune system responses seem to be connected, (for example, certain food intolerances can cause skin issues such as boils, eczema, dermatitis herpetiformis, etc., while wreaking havoc to the lining of the intestines, as well.
The boils that your husband is suffering from may be an indication that his MC is currently very active, IOW, in a flare, even if he isn't presenting with any other symptoms. Is he receiving any regular treatment to control his MC, such as Entocort, Asacol, Lialda, Colazal, etc., or has he made any changes to diet, to prevent the autoimmune reactions that cause MC?
Frankly, I doubt that the doctors will recognize a connection between the MC and the boils, but the connection is real. Has he been tested for celiac disease? And in connection with that, did they do any culture tests to be sure that the boils are caused by staph germs, and not a result of dermatitis herpetiformis, (caused by gluten sensitivity)? The fact is, one can have dermatitis herpetiformis, without presenting any other celiac symptoms, but most doctors are not aware of that fact, either.
Good luck with this, and please don't hesitate to ask any questions that come to mind. Again, welcome aboard.
Tex (Wayne)
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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roakes1019
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:21 pm
staph and MC
Karen and Tex,
Thanks so much for replying to my question. My husband is back in the hospital but this time the doctors seem to be all working together. He's scheduled for surgery on the staph lesions tomorrow but his potassium is so low that it may be next week before it's high enough for an operation. He does appear to have MSVR and is taking the antibiotic for that resistant strain of staph. He also has a urinary infection and is receiving treatment for that. No, the doctors, although very open and available, wouldn't concede that the staph is responsible for the MC. He had staph last January and got so much antibiotics that the good bacteria in his colon were killed. He has suffered for almost a year with diarrhea with no real remission. He is on prednisone but I fear that when his course of that is complete he'll relapse. Anyway, he finally has a whole team of doctors working together and I feel positive for the first time. Thanks again for the consideration of your replies.
Thanks so much for replying to my question. My husband is back in the hospital but this time the doctors seem to be all working together. He's scheduled for surgery on the staph lesions tomorrow but his potassium is so low that it may be next week before it's high enough for an operation. He does appear to have MSVR and is taking the antibiotic for that resistant strain of staph. He also has a urinary infection and is receiving treatment for that. No, the doctors, although very open and available, wouldn't concede that the staph is responsible for the MC. He had staph last January and got so much antibiotics that the good bacteria in his colon were killed. He has suffered for almost a year with diarrhea with no real remission. He is on prednisone but I fear that when his course of that is complete he'll relapse. Anyway, he finally has a whole team of doctors working together and I feel positive for the first time. Thanks again for the consideration of your replies.
Betty,
Please try to persuade his doctor/s to switch his treatment from Prednisone to Entocort EC. It will need to be done in a cautious, gradual process, of course, over weeks, or months, because one can't just stop taking Prednisone, due to major withdrawal symptoms. And, taking Entocort EC, while still taking a significant amount of Prednisone, can possibly cause a dangerous corticosteroid overdose condition.
In the long run, though, as you are probably aware, the Prednisone is going to ruin his health, and the sooner he switches to Entocort, the better off he will be. Entocort, unlike Prednisone, can safely be used indefinitely, (at a reduced dosage), as a maintenance medication. Prednisone most definitely cannot be safely used for long term treatment. If the Entocort EC cannot adequately control his MC symptoms, then remove all traces of gluten and dairy products from his diet. After a few weeks, he should begin to see benefits from the diet. If he still has problems with diarrhea, then all traces of soy may need to be removed from his diet, also. Gluten, however, is the primary food problem for most people with MC.
Also, the prednisone is almost surely the reason why your husband has no immune system resistance against the staph germs. Prednisone is a much, much more potent immune system suppressant, than Entocort, and infections of that type, are definitely one of the risks of long-term Prednisone use.
The fact that he is so low on potassium, suggests that he has been having a very severe episode of diarrhea, associated with the MC. Obviously, the Prednisone is not doing the job, and it needs to go, before it does more damage to his body. Entocort may not be able to do the job, either, by itself, but with some careful diet adjustments, your husband can lick this problem, and get his life back. Please give some careful thought to this, because the stakes are high, for long-term health. Many of us here have been in a similar situation, and the diet was our salvation. Together with Entocort EC, though, it will bring remission much faster than the diet alone.
Wishing you and your husband the best - please keep us posted on how he is doing, regardless of what treatment course you choose to follow.
Tex
Please try to persuade his doctor/s to switch his treatment from Prednisone to Entocort EC. It will need to be done in a cautious, gradual process, of course, over weeks, or months, because one can't just stop taking Prednisone, due to major withdrawal symptoms. And, taking Entocort EC, while still taking a significant amount of Prednisone, can possibly cause a dangerous corticosteroid overdose condition.
In the long run, though, as you are probably aware, the Prednisone is going to ruin his health, and the sooner he switches to Entocort, the better off he will be. Entocort, unlike Prednisone, can safely be used indefinitely, (at a reduced dosage), as a maintenance medication. Prednisone most definitely cannot be safely used for long term treatment. If the Entocort EC cannot adequately control his MC symptoms, then remove all traces of gluten and dairy products from his diet. After a few weeks, he should begin to see benefits from the diet. If he still has problems with diarrhea, then all traces of soy may need to be removed from his diet, also. Gluten, however, is the primary food problem for most people with MC.
Also, the prednisone is almost surely the reason why your husband has no immune system resistance against the staph germs. Prednisone is a much, much more potent immune system suppressant, than Entocort, and infections of that type, are definitely one of the risks of long-term Prednisone use.
The fact that he is so low on potassium, suggests that he has been having a very severe episode of diarrhea, associated with the MC. Obviously, the Prednisone is not doing the job, and it needs to go, before it does more damage to his body. Entocort may not be able to do the job, either, by itself, but with some careful diet adjustments, your husband can lick this problem, and get his life back. Please give some careful thought to this, because the stakes are high, for long-term health. Many of us here have been in a similar situation, and the diet was our salvation. Together with Entocort EC, though, it will bring remission much faster than the diet alone.
Wishing you and your husband the best - please keep us posted on how he is doing, regardless of what treatment course you choose to follow.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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roakes1019
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:21 pm
Entocort
Tex,
Unfortunately, he has been on Entocort and it didn't get the job done. I know that Prednisone is a potent steroid and I believe he was put on it as a last-ditch measure. The docs did ask about the coincidence of the staph and starting the prednisone. It really has become a balancing act: the Benocar he was taking for HBP probably accelerated the potassium depletion and he's so wasted that his BP is actually too low so he's off the Benocar. The main thing is to get his potassium up enough for the surgery. We know he'll be weaned off the Prednisone--this is his third week and he's down to 30mg a day. Again, the Entocort and Asacol didn't stop the diarrhea. The Prednisone has helped the diarrhea. There's a whole team of doctors working all the angles to get things into balance. Of course the diarrhea drained his system of potassium and left him dehydrated. We're at a very iffy time right now but at least I know the docs are working together to reach a positive solution. He's getting potassium in his IV and a MSVR antibiotic. They can't raise his potassium level too high too quickly. We spent Thanksgiving in the hospital and it looks as though we'll spend New year's there. I do have confidence the docs are doing the best for him; I just hope it will be enough.
Unfortunately, he has been on Entocort and it didn't get the job done. I know that Prednisone is a potent steroid and I believe he was put on it as a last-ditch measure. The docs did ask about the coincidence of the staph and starting the prednisone. It really has become a balancing act: the Benocar he was taking for HBP probably accelerated the potassium depletion and he's so wasted that his BP is actually too low so he's off the Benocar. The main thing is to get his potassium up enough for the surgery. We know he'll be weaned off the Prednisone--this is his third week and he's down to 30mg a day. Again, the Entocort and Asacol didn't stop the diarrhea. The Prednisone has helped the diarrhea. There's a whole team of doctors working all the angles to get things into balance. Of course the diarrhea drained his system of potassium and left him dehydrated. We're at a very iffy time right now but at least I know the docs are working together to reach a positive solution. He's getting potassium in his IV and a MSVR antibiotic. They can't raise his potassium level too high too quickly. We spent Thanksgiving in the hospital and it looks as though we'll spend New year's there. I do have confidence the docs are doing the best for him; I just hope it will be enough.
Betty,
I will put my 2 cents in for you to think about. I did not have staph or boils as my MC came on. In fact, it was almost a year afterward that I did have a boil but once it was lanced and I took antibiotics it has not come back. I will say that I was initially put on entrocort and asacol and got no relief. The Dr. changed me to predisone and asacol and I got marginally better. They finally took me off asacol and raised my predisone and I got relief. As I was coming off the predisone (down to 10 mg) they insisted that I go back on colazol (in the same family as asacol) and I immediately got worse. Christmas found me curled up in a fetal position when I wasn't on the toilet. I had an allergic reaction to all that class of drugs.
I am glad you have confidence in the team that is taking care of your husband. Please consider that he may also be allergic to the asacol.
Good luck with getting the staph under control.
Jan
I will put my 2 cents in for you to think about. I did not have staph or boils as my MC came on. In fact, it was almost a year afterward that I did have a boil but once it was lanced and I took antibiotics it has not come back. I will say that I was initially put on entrocort and asacol and got no relief. The Dr. changed me to predisone and asacol and I got marginally better. They finally took me off asacol and raised my predisone and I got relief. As I was coming off the predisone (down to 10 mg) they insisted that I go back on colazol (in the same family as asacol) and I immediately got worse. Christmas found me curled up in a fetal position when I wasn't on the toilet. I had an allergic reaction to all that class of drugs.
I am glad you have confidence in the team that is taking care of your husband. Please consider that he may also be allergic to the asacol.
Good luck with getting the staph under control.
Jan
While you are proclaiming peace with your lips, be careful to have it even more fully in your heart. - Saint Francis of Assisi
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roakes1019
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:21 pm
thank you, Jan
Jan,
It sounds as though you have reacted to the course of treatment similarly to my husband. That gives me comfort that what the docs are doing is what needs to be done. I know that Prednisone is strong medicine and that he can't stay on it forever, although we do have friends and family who are on low dose Prednisone continuously. Anyway, again, thank you for your 2 cents worth. Every input we can get from other MC sufferers is so valuable. We are feeling more positive than we have for a long time.
It sounds as though you have reacted to the course of treatment similarly to my husband. That gives me comfort that what the docs are doing is what needs to be done. I know that Prednisone is strong medicine and that he can't stay on it forever, although we do have friends and family who are on low dose Prednisone continuously. Anyway, again, thank you for your 2 cents worth. Every input we can get from other MC sufferers is so valuable. We are feeling more positive than we have for a long time.
Dear Betty,
So sorry to hear about your husband's illness. Hope the team of MD's soon get all problems resolved. I am not an medical professional but an MC patient for 3 + years. I have the following questions. First, have the doctors eliminated C. difficile as the cause of his D? C. difficile is often a cause of D especially after a patient has been treated with large doses of antibiotics. My GI specialist claims that it takes THREE stool exams to rule out C. Diff. Second, has your husband gone gluten-free? I realize his GI specialist(s) probably don't think this is important. However, it can't hurt him to eliminate gluten from his diet. If it reduces the D by only a bit, I would think it is worth it. As I am truly allergic to Entocort, I had to go gluten-free and have been D free since. I know this does not work for all MC patients, however, he might get lucky. Tell him he is not alone and we all are hoping for a cure for him. Hang in there, you are among friends. Sheila
So sorry to hear about your husband's illness. Hope the team of MD's soon get all problems resolved. I am not an medical professional but an MC patient for 3 + years. I have the following questions. First, have the doctors eliminated C. difficile as the cause of his D? C. difficile is often a cause of D especially after a patient has been treated with large doses of antibiotics. My GI specialist claims that it takes THREE stool exams to rule out C. Diff. Second, has your husband gone gluten-free? I realize his GI specialist(s) probably don't think this is important. However, it can't hurt him to eliminate gluten from his diet. If it reduces the D by only a bit, I would think it is worth it. As I am truly allergic to Entocort, I had to go gluten-free and have been D free since. I know this does not work for all MC patients, however, he might get lucky. Tell him he is not alone and we all are hoping for a cure for him. Hang in there, you are among friends. Sheila
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roakes1019
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:21 pm
antibiotics
Sheila,
Because my husband goes to Hondurus on a medical mission every year, the first thing we thought of was giardia. Many stools were examined for giardia and similar "bugs." He did have antibiotics for the staph lesion last January and we suspected his good bacteria were depleted. He took probiotics and ate tons of yogurt. He was put on Prednisone three weeks ago after showing no improvement on Entocort and Asacol and possibly that steroid allowed the staph to attack him again. Anyway, his potassium was up enough for him to have surgery on the lesions today. I hope we are finally on the path to getting him stabilized.
Thank you for your kind thoughts.
Betty
Because my husband goes to Hondurus on a medical mission every year, the first thing we thought of was giardia. Many stools were examined for giardia and similar "bugs." He did have antibiotics for the staph lesion last January and we suspected his good bacteria were depleted. He took probiotics and ate tons of yogurt. He was put on Prednisone three weeks ago after showing no improvement on Entocort and Asacol and possibly that steroid allowed the staph to attack him again. Anyway, his potassium was up enough for him to have surgery on the lesions today. I hope we are finally on the path to getting him stabilized.
Thank you for your kind thoughts.
Betty
Betty,
I'm glad to hear that he has that surgery behind him, and I hope that he recovers quickly. Parasites such as giardia, can indeed cause MC, by the way, in some cases, and we have at least a couple of other members, who's MC began shortly after they returned from a visit to a tropical location.
One other thought on the combination of Entocort and Asacol: A significant percentage of people are intolerant of Entocort, and quite a lot of people are intolerant of Asacol. IOW, they can actually get diarrhea from the drugs that are supposed to prevent it. When two adverse probabilities are combined, the statistical odds of an adverse result are greatly magnified. That means that when the two drugs are taken together, the odds can be unacceptably high, that a patient will react adversely to one or the other drug, (or both), and that reaction will prevent the other drug from providing any benefits. When that happens, both doctor and patient will incorrectly assume that neither drug is helpful, when in actuality, only one of them is the problem, but there is no way of telling which one, when they are taken together. That's why I feel that prescribing both of those drugs concurrently, should be prohibited, because the odds of a beneficial outcome, are rather slim, statistically speaking. Some doctors are apparently not very good at math, because your husband's doctor is not the only one to make that "mistake".
The mistake that the doctors make, is due to a flaw in their logic. They incorrectly assume that taking two drugs together, amounts to a redundant system, (which, as anyone versed in the odds of probability, knows, should greatly enhance the "reliability" of the system). Unfortunately, though, this combination doesn't perform as a redundant system, because the probability of an adverse event dominates the behavior of the combination, thus causing a negative effect, that is exactly the opposite of what the prescribing doctor had in mind.
Tex
I'm glad to hear that he has that surgery behind him, and I hope that he recovers quickly. Parasites such as giardia, can indeed cause MC, by the way, in some cases, and we have at least a couple of other members, who's MC began shortly after they returned from a visit to a tropical location.
One other thought on the combination of Entocort and Asacol: A significant percentage of people are intolerant of Entocort, and quite a lot of people are intolerant of Asacol. IOW, they can actually get diarrhea from the drugs that are supposed to prevent it. When two adverse probabilities are combined, the statistical odds of an adverse result are greatly magnified. That means that when the two drugs are taken together, the odds can be unacceptably high, that a patient will react adversely to one or the other drug, (or both), and that reaction will prevent the other drug from providing any benefits. When that happens, both doctor and patient will incorrectly assume that neither drug is helpful, when in actuality, only one of them is the problem, but there is no way of telling which one, when they are taken together. That's why I feel that prescribing both of those drugs concurrently, should be prohibited, because the odds of a beneficial outcome, are rather slim, statistically speaking. Some doctors are apparently not very good at math, because your husband's doctor is not the only one to make that "mistake".
The mistake that the doctors make, is due to a flaw in their logic. They incorrectly assume that taking two drugs together, amounts to a redundant system, (which, as anyone versed in the odds of probability, knows, should greatly enhance the "reliability" of the system). Unfortunately, though, this combination doesn't perform as a redundant system, because the probability of an adverse event dominates the behavior of the combination, thus causing a negative effect, that is exactly the opposite of what the prescribing doctor had in mind.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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kate_ce1995
- Rockhopper Penguin
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- Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 5:53 pm
- Location: Vermont
A little over a year ago I was told my D was related to a staph infection in the gut. Because the doctor had never seen it on a pathology report before she called the pathologist who said that they are now doing this broad spectrum test when asked to do a C-Diff test.
Antibiotics helped. I too also developed a urinary tract infection, but suspect that no matter how hard one works to be clean when having bouts of major D, it's impossible and I'm guessing the UTI was a side effect of having major D.
No other docs I've seen seem to have heard of this or believe that it might be the case. The Pathologist was at Fletcher Allen Hospital in Burlington, VT which is associated with the University of Vermont, for what it's worth.
Katy
Antibiotics helped. I too also developed a urinary tract infection, but suspect that no matter how hard one works to be clean when having bouts of major D, it's impossible and I'm guessing the UTI was a side effect of having major D.
No other docs I've seen seem to have heard of this or believe that it might be the case. The Pathologist was at Fletcher Allen Hospital in Burlington, VT which is associated with the University of Vermont, for what it's worth.
Katy