Hey Everyone,
This is from another forum . . . has anyone ever heard this about the enterolab tests?
"The stool testig by Enterolabs is not accepted by the medical community because if the idividual consumes meat, the results will give you a false positive result. I am sure that is why his work has not been published."
Mary Beth
Enterolab yeilds false positives???
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Mary Beth,
That's absolutely ridiculous, and whoever wrote that, (and/or whoever the original source of that misinformation might be), obviously knows nothing about the testing process. Enterolab's rate of false negatives is extremely low, (approximately equal to the rate of IgA-deficient people), and I've never heard of a false positive. Have you? Someone is passing on a vicious rumor, (or trying to start one). If there were a grain of truth to that, it would have surfaced long, long ago.
Tex
That's absolutely ridiculous, and whoever wrote that, (and/or whoever the original source of that misinformation might be), obviously knows nothing about the testing process. Enterolab's rate of false negatives is extremely low, (approximately equal to the rate of IgA-deficient people), and I've never heard of a false positive. Have you? Someone is passing on a vicious rumor, (or trying to start one). If there were a grain of truth to that, it would have surfaced long, long ago.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Tex,
No, I've not heard too many complaints about EL being inaccurate, only the ones that we suspect are IgA deficient. As you know I am a supporter. I asked the author (who works with celiacs) where the info came from. Since his test is patented and no one else has the technology, I asked her how someone could have tested the test to detemine that meat yields a false positive - I don't hink it's possible, and as you say, a vicious rumor that I suspect this person heard from some other critic. They haven't responded yet but if they do I will post the response.
Mary Beth
No, I've not heard too many complaints about EL being inaccurate, only the ones that we suspect are IgA deficient. As you know I am a supporter. I asked the author (who works with celiacs) where the info came from. Since his test is patented and no one else has the technology, I asked her how someone could have tested the test to detemine that meat yields a false positive - I don't hink it's possible, and as you say, a vicious rumor that I suspect this person heard from some other critic. They haven't responded yet but if they do I will post the response.
Mary Beth
I have been trying to think of some mechanism whereby meat could affect the results and I can't come up with anything. I'd love to see their reasoning on this!
Maybe they are confused about the fact that you may not get an accurate test for microscopic blood in the stool if someone is eating a lot of meat.
Will stay tuned...........
Love,
Polly
Maybe they are confused about the fact that you may not get an accurate test for microscopic blood in the stool if someone is eating a lot of meat.
Will stay tuned...........
Love,
Polly
Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused.
Sounds like ......
......
.....to me.
I never cease to be amazed at the (lack of) quality of some so called "academic" research. I work in the field of marketing, which includes market research, and this is sometimes "spun" for business reasons. Seems like medical research is no different.
Whatever happened to the search for TRUTH?
Best, Ant
...........to me.
I never cease to be amazed at the (lack of) quality of some so called "academic" research. I work in the field of marketing, which includes market research, and this is sometimes "spun" for business reasons. Seems like medical research is no different.
Whatever happened to the search for TRUTH?Best, Ant
if you Google "enterolab testing false positive" you will find a couple of messages boards with questions about this, one of the questions/suggestions was a false positive result due to constipation. Because "it" was too long in there, you could get a reaction. This I don't get, you have a reaction to gluten or you don't, maybe if it is long in there, you have a longer or more reaction, but still you have a reaction. So how I see it, this does not make any sense. It is like being pregnant, you are or you are not. You react to gluten or you do not! No matter how long you poop is inside your intestine.
Some reaction also were saying, mmmmm maybe a bit experimental, but for sure promising and about Dr Fine, someone mentioned, after doing some research on the internet, that to him or her he looked like to be a serious researchers (and not just like a random BS'er trying to make money with an obscure test). Only a few where very critical, almost hostile based on nothing. Others who actually checked the website out (with a medical background) were moderated positive.
But still I it would be great if Dr Fine published all his test results!!!
Other anti enterolab reactions were mostly following the standard celiac diagnoses rules, like the only way to find out and know for sure you have a reaction to gluten is blood test and biopsy (the golden standard). And thanks god, everybody has a free choice in following the standard mainstream rules for diagnoses of gluten sensitivity or do your own research.
Some reaction also were saying, mmmmm maybe a bit experimental, but for sure promising and about Dr Fine, someone mentioned, after doing some research on the internet, that to him or her he looked like to be a serious researchers (and not just like a random BS'er trying to make money with an obscure test). Only a few where very critical, almost hostile based on nothing. Others who actually checked the website out (with a medical background) were moderated positive.
But still I it would be great if Dr Fine published all his test results!!!
Other anti enterolab reactions were mostly following the standard celiac diagnoses rules, like the only way to find out and know for sure you have a reaction to gluten is blood test and biopsy (the golden standard). And thanks god, everybody has a free choice in following the standard mainstream rules for diagnoses of gluten sensitivity or do your own research.
Here is her response . . . .
Dr. Peter Green stated that meat could cause a false positive for the stool testing. That is why he did not recommend using that test.
Dr. Peter H. R. Green, MD. Professor of Clinical Medicine is the Director of The Celiac Disease Center at Columbia University
I emailed Dr. Ken - I am hoping he will respond and defend himself.
Mary Beth
Dr. Peter Green stated that meat could cause a false positive for the stool testing. That is why he did not recommend using that test.
Dr. Peter H. R. Green, MD. Professor of Clinical Medicine is the Director of The Celiac Disease Center at Columbia University
I emailed Dr. Ken - I am hoping he will respond and defend himself.
Mary Beth
I find it a bit hard to believe that Dr. Green would say that, in the context in which the remark was offered. Perhaps Dr. Green doesn't recommend using stool tests, because he is a huge advocate of the blood tests for celiac diagnosis. In fact, he even argues against the value of small intestinal biopsies - he points out all sorts of problems with them. He seems to be critical of everything except the blood tests, which, of course, suck, because of their low sensitivity, (though he doesn't seem to be concerned about that). IOW, celiac blood tests are his "thing", pretty much to the exclusion of everything else. At least, that's the impression that I get, when I read what he writes, and listen to him speak. I could be wrong - I don't know him personally, only what I see and hear about him on the internet.
Maybe his statement was taken out of context. I would have to see more details on that alleged claim, and his reasoning behind it, before I accept it at face value. I would have to see some proof of the actual existence of those alleged false positives, not just a bunch of suggestive, "could cause", BS.
As we all know, BS, half-truths, and omissions, abound on the internet.
Tex
Maybe his statement was taken out of context. I would have to see more details on that alleged claim, and his reasoning behind it, before I accept it at face value. I would have to see some proof of the actual existence of those alleged false positives, not just a bunch of suggestive, "could cause", BS.
As we all know, BS, half-truths, and omissions, abound on the internet.Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Same here Tex. Dr. Green previously was insistent there was no such thing as non-celiac gluten sensitivity and only recently changed his tune (again just from what I read on the internet). If this is true however, it would explain alot about why he is not published yet. I tried to e-mail Dr. Fine - I hope he responds.
Mary Beth
Mary Beth
Here's Ken's response:
"The only false positive test I am aware with eating meat is with a test for blood called Hemoccult.
Meat does not interfere with an ELISA gluten test.
By the way, if you confirm Dr. Green is saying that our stool test is adversely affected by meat or anything else, please let me know. He knows nothing of our test, but has alot of negative things to say about us!"
Dr. Green's negativity is a prime example of how the traditional medical community it making publication hard for him. I wonder if Dr. Green would respond to me????
Mary Beth
"The only false positive test I am aware with eating meat is with a test for blood called Hemoccult.
Meat does not interfere with an ELISA gluten test.
By the way, if you confirm Dr. Green is saying that our stool test is adversely affected by meat or anything else, please let me know. He knows nothing of our test, but has alot of negative things to say about us!"
Dr. Green's negativity is a prime example of how the traditional medical community it making publication hard for him. I wonder if Dr. Green would respond to me????
Mary Beth
Mary Beth,
Good for Dr. Fine. He's a man after my own heart. IMO, accessibility says a lot about one's integrity, especially on the internet. I'm not a chemist, but I have used ELISA tests myself, in my business, and from what I know about these, and chemistry in general, Dr. Fine's esponse is absolutely correct.
Good work!
Tex
Good for Dr. Fine. He's a man after my own heart. IMO, accessibility says a lot about one's integrity, especially on the internet. I'm not a chemist, but I have used ELISA tests myself, in my business, and from what I know about these, and chemistry in general, Dr. Fine's esponse is absolutely correct.
Probably not, but if he doesn't, that certainly won't instill any confidence in his position, and it will provide some fuel for turning the heat up on him, on internet discussion sites. Dr. Fine has picked up the gauntlet, now it's Dr. Green's turn to prove that he's made of something more substantial than hot air.Mary Beth wrote:I wonder if Dr. Green would respond to me????
Good work!
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
One final comment from Ken:
"I am not published only because publishing is not a fair, objective process like it used to be decades ago."
I guess we have known this all along. With the powerful docs in the celiac community slinging mud, there's no way he would get published. I guess that's why online communities like ours are so important. People must really take an active role in their own medical care and not just blindly turn it over to their physicians.
He closed his email to me with this: "I am about public health service to the people that need the benefit... the people!"
Mary Beth
"I am not published only because publishing is not a fair, objective process like it used to be decades ago."
I guess we have known this all along. With the powerful docs in the celiac community slinging mud, there's no way he would get published. I guess that's why online communities like ours are so important. People must really take an active role in their own medical care and not just blindly turn it over to their physicians.
He closed his email to me with this: "I am about public health service to the people that need the benefit... the people!"
Mary Beth
I'm convinced that he really means that, too. He stands in stark contrast to the celiac docs who stonewall him. They are no better than mercenaries, and they obviously don't have their patient's best interests at heart, since they choose to fight to suppress the facts, to the detriment of many of their patients. They truly suck. IMO, intentionally suppressing the advancement of knowledge, (especially medical knowledge), may well be the greatest crime of all.Dr. Fine wrote:"I am about public health service to the people that need the benefit... the people!"
I predict that someday, the voice of all the gluten-sensitive people who have been abused by intentional misdiagnosis, will be heard, and class action malpractice suits will put an end to all these celiac shenanigans, once and for all, and all the conspirators will pay for their malicious abuse of patients.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
an addition to your last message tex, I am sure, in time, there will appear from different angles more and more scientific evidence that gluten-intolerance is more than just celiac disease. As soon as the voice is loud enough it will be heard, also by those who prefer to ignore it now. Celiac disease is only a known disease since the 40 - 50's of the last century. First it were only children, it was not possible to get it at later age in life as an adult. That has changed. Than at first the only possible symptoms were gut problems. Nowadays the list gets longer and longer and longer..... So again the acknowledge that gluten intolerance is more than just celiac disease and HD, it only a matter of time (IMO).