http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/06/scien ... ref=health
So how's that placebo effect going for all you Potty People??????
Mary Beth
Placebo effect of gluten free diet
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Placebo effect of gluten free diet
Here's a New York Times article on gluten - they interviewed an "expert" from Mayo Clinic.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/06/scien ... ref=health
So how's that placebo effect going for all you Potty People??????
Mary Beth
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/06/scien ... ref=health
So how's that placebo effect going for all you Potty People??????
Mary Beth
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Gabes-Apg
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connie
you said exactly what i was thinking..........
refer to my soap box thread from yesterday
when they discovered penicillian and started treating people with it, it was with the intent of giving people good health
now any developments with meds are based on marketability...
you said exactly what i was thinking..........
refer to my soap box thread from yesterday
when they discovered penicillian and started treating people with it, it was with the intent of giving people good health
now any developments with meds are based on marketability...
Gabes Ryan
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
well first he probably never has heard of the skin disease HD? Well why should he, he is GI, not a dermatologist 
. Second how on earth can the high fiber content be cause of the relieve if people start to eat gluten free. Probably he never has heard of refined grains, with very low fiber content. What irritates my most of this articles and the whole attitude is that why don't they (the medical experts, researchers etc) just admit that they don't know it yet. And in a certain way in the article this GI is admitting this: "science still lags behind in concrete evidence supporting this belief" (his reaction on the gluttony), that is another sentence for "we don't know it yet". And than some stupid speculation, out of the blue, based on nothing, why it maybe working, less fiber, healthier food and if that is not it, well good old placebo effect (what is interesting thing in itself by the way). Why not an attitude like, we see people doing it, we see people having benefit of it, hopefully future science will give is more answers.
IMO there is nothing wrong with a critical attitude also when it comes to gluten free eating. But than please include all the evidence and research done on this topic. This article again looks like another example of we, the real gluten free people with CD or HD and the rest, the wannabees gluten free eaters. But the expert in this article is a GI celiac specialist. These specialists seems to have a blind spot for any other developments in the gluten free world
. Second how on earth can the high fiber content be cause of the relieve if people start to eat gluten free. Probably he never has heard of refined grains, with very low fiber content. What irritates my most of this articles and the whole attitude is that why don't they (the medical experts, researchers etc) just admit that they don't know it yet. And in a certain way in the article this GI is admitting this: "science still lags behind in concrete evidence supporting this belief" (his reaction on the gluttony), that is another sentence for "we don't know it yet". And than some stupid speculation, out of the blue, based on nothing, why it maybe working, less fiber, healthier food and if that is not it, well good old placebo effect (what is interesting thing in itself by the way). Why not an attitude like, we see people doing it, we see people having benefit of it, hopefully future science will give is more answers. IMO there is nothing wrong with a critical attitude also when it comes to gluten free eating. But than please include all the evidence and research done on this topic. This article again looks like another example of we, the real gluten free people with CD or HD and the rest, the wannabees gluten free eaters. But the expert in this article is a GI celiac specialist. These specialists seems to have a blind spot for any other developments in the gluten free world
You're right on target with that statement. If something doesn't fit their rigid definitions, it is obviously totally wrong, (in their opionion), no matter how many patients have found relief by using it.Harma wrote:These specialists seems to have a blind spot for any other developments in the gluten free world
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
I call this shoddy journalism and, possibly, shoddy medicine.
All this worries me about the upcoming Mayo Clinic research (possibly highly flawed) being conducted that may "prove" gluten sensitivity is "exclusive to celiacs".
Someone tell me it aint true that Mayo is in the pay of Big Farmer and Big Pharma.....how are the mighty fallen!
Best, ant
Is the writer confused by the words "allergy" and "intolerance" ? - as far as I understand these things, celiacs (like those with MC) have an "intolerance" not an "allergy".However, these people often do not have any allergic sensitivity to gluten
All this worries me about the upcoming Mayo Clinic research (possibly highly flawed) being conducted that may "prove" gluten sensitivity is "exclusive to celiacs".
Someone tell me it aint true that Mayo is in the pay of Big Farmer and Big Pharma.....how are the mighty fallen!
Best, ant
And keep in mind that Mayo owns the prometheus test now, the one that most doctors prescribe and that only ID's the main celiac genes. With all the published research coming out of other countries, you'd think they'd be more up to the current information available, wouldn't you - unless they are as you say, Ant...
Selective blindness, directed by funding. I'd be really curious to see cost per person figures from countries who have long established nationalized healthcare. There is NO reason why the cost per person should be any different in the US than it is in any other country - unless somebody is milking the system. We are one world, we are all made of the same stuff, we can all share the same knowledge. How stupid are most people when it comes to this? From what I've seen the babyboomers (of which I'm one) are damn stupid, they trust doctors and don't question procedures that are recommended often just as a moneymaker for a hospital.
I have a nephew who is an MD, and I know I've said this before, but he's already had a bowel resection and both his daughters have Crohns. I'd love to have a come to Jesus conversation with him about all this, but I can promise you he WOULD NOT LISTEN TO A THING I SAID. He is a robot for his masters.
Mayo misdx my GF with tuberculosis in 1918, knowing full well already that he had a bowel obstruction, they sent him to a Sanitarium (where he tested negative twice before they sent him home basically to die alone, sequestered from the family that was still afraid of his "disease". Mayo never treated the bowel obstruction. Can only assume he had MAP all along and died from untreated gluten sensitivity.that Mayo is in the pay of Big Farmer and Big Pharma.
Selective blindness, directed by funding. I'd be really curious to see cost per person figures from countries who have long established nationalized healthcare. There is NO reason why the cost per person should be any different in the US than it is in any other country - unless somebody is milking the system. We are one world, we are all made of the same stuff, we can all share the same knowledge. How stupid are most people when it comes to this? From what I've seen the babyboomers (of which I'm one) are damn stupid, they trust doctors and don't question procedures that are recommended often just as a moneymaker for a hospital.
I have a nephew who is an MD, and I know I've said this before, but he's already had a bowel resection and both his daughters have Crohns. I'd love to have a come to Jesus conversation with him about all this, but I can promise you he WOULD NOT LISTEN TO A THING I SAID. He is a robot for his masters.
Resolved MC symptoms successfully w/L-Glutamine, Probiotics and Vitamins, GF since 8/'09. DX w/MC 10/'09.
Well at the risk of being thrown out of here on my "behind".....lol.....no pun intended.....I have wondered about the gluten and MC connection and if the avoidance of it can relieve diarrhea.....not because of the absence of "gluten" in the diet.....but rather the lack of "fiber" in the diet.
At that time of my diagnosis three years ago, I was given not only a colonoscopy, but also an endoscopy and was told that I did not have any signs of CS......and thus did not need to omit gluten from my diet.
Over the past 3 years I have found through trial and error, that I cannot eat hardly anything that is fibrous.....especially in raw fruits and vegetables. Also, I cannot eat grains that are high in fiber such as oatmeal and whole wheat bread......which until three years ago....I had absolutely no problems digesting.
I can see why it was stated in that article that often a person will feel better when they avoid high carb foods (such as wheat) because most carbs will elevate one's blood glucose and once these food are reduced or omitted from the diet .....one will notice more of a sense of well being...... due to the stablization of BG. Of course, a very low carb diet will actually be quite harmful and should be avoided at all costs.
I always hear people who go on the Atkins diet comment on how much better they feel after they have reduced their carb intake.
When I developed LC and could no longer eat whole wheat bread.....I switched to white bread.....which I had not eaten for many years because I have diabetes.
Even though I don't eat very much white bread or pasta.....I have found that I have no problems whatsoever with diarrhea whenever I eat these products.
In fact .....as I have stated here on this site just recently.....whenever I do have a flare......if I eat some pasta or white bread I know it will help my stools return to a normal state rather quickly. Usually I often don't even need to take Imodium to help with firming my stools.
However, again, being diabetic, I have to decide which is better.....eat the wheat or take a pill. As a diabetic I have to be careful of both choices. But thus far neither the wheat (white) nor the Immodium has created any negative impact on my BG readings. If anyone on here is a diabetic I will mention that if you are going to eat pasta (white) or bread (white).....the pasta is a better choice because of it's composition it will not break down as quickly as white bread, and thereby it is less likely to raise your BG. In fact pasta is actually "safer" for diabetics than either white or whole wheat bread.
So, I realize I am in the minority with respect to gluten......but for me.......white bread or white pasta....is something that I can actually tolerate quite well. But that's my story.......at least for now.
Issy
At that time of my diagnosis three years ago, I was given not only a colonoscopy, but also an endoscopy and was told that I did not have any signs of CS......and thus did not need to omit gluten from my diet.
Over the past 3 years I have found through trial and error, that I cannot eat hardly anything that is fibrous.....especially in raw fruits and vegetables. Also, I cannot eat grains that are high in fiber such as oatmeal and whole wheat bread......which until three years ago....I had absolutely no problems digesting.
I can see why it was stated in that article that often a person will feel better when they avoid high carb foods (such as wheat) because most carbs will elevate one's blood glucose and once these food are reduced or omitted from the diet .....one will notice more of a sense of well being...... due to the stablization of BG. Of course, a very low carb diet will actually be quite harmful and should be avoided at all costs.
I always hear people who go on the Atkins diet comment on how much better they feel after they have reduced their carb intake.
When I developed LC and could no longer eat whole wheat bread.....I switched to white bread.....which I had not eaten for many years because I have diabetes.
Even though I don't eat very much white bread or pasta.....I have found that I have no problems whatsoever with diarrhea whenever I eat these products.
In fact .....as I have stated here on this site just recently.....whenever I do have a flare......if I eat some pasta or white bread I know it will help my stools return to a normal state rather quickly. Usually I often don't even need to take Imodium to help with firming my stools.
However, again, being diabetic, I have to decide which is better.....eat the wheat or take a pill. As a diabetic I have to be careful of both choices. But thus far neither the wheat (white) nor the Immodium has created any negative impact on my BG readings. If anyone on here is a diabetic I will mention that if you are going to eat pasta (white) or bread (white).....the pasta is a better choice because of it's composition it will not break down as quickly as white bread, and thereby it is less likely to raise your BG. In fact pasta is actually "safer" for diabetics than either white or whole wheat bread.
So, I realize I am in the minority with respect to gluten......but for me.......white bread or white pasta....is something that I can actually tolerate quite well. But that's my story.......at least for now.
Issy
IssyW123
Issy,
You're looking at this from the viewpoint of someone who is not gluten-sensitive. Trust me, those of us who are sensitive to gluten, cannot get by if we only remove fiber from our diet. Gluten is like poison to us, and it will cause us to relapse, even if we eat virtually no fiber at all. All it takes is a trace of gluten, to set us off. If you want to verify your status, just send a sample to Enterolab, and you will find that you test negative to gluten antibodies, (unless, of course, you happen to be one of those people who are gluten-sensitive, but asymptomatic).
Tex
You're looking at this from the viewpoint of someone who is not gluten-sensitive. Trust me, those of us who are sensitive to gluten, cannot get by if we only remove fiber from our diet. Gluten is like poison to us, and it will cause us to relapse, even if we eat virtually no fiber at all. All it takes is a trace of gluten, to set us off. If you want to verify your status, just send a sample to Enterolab, and you will find that you test negative to gluten antibodies, (unless, of course, you happen to be one of those people who are gluten-sensitive, but asymptomatic).
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
Mary Beth,
Good point. Back when I still had a colon, (:roll:), after I was in remission, and my gut had healed sufficiently, I could eat all the fiber I wanted, without any problems. I didn't crave it, but it didn't bother me at all. Now, of course, I have to limit it, because of a risk of a blockage, due to the ileostomy.
Thinking about this topic a bit, we know that there has to be a reason why one cannot tolerate fiber, (there's a reason for everything), and the most likely reason is chronic inflammation in the gut. In fact, unless there is a risk of blockage, due to a stenosis somewhere in the intestines, inflammation is the only reason that I can think of, that would preclude eating fiber.
That suggests that anyone who adversely reacts to fiber, is almost surely living with a chronic intestinal inflammation, caused by a protein trigger, even though they might be clinically asymptomatic to the trigger itself. The most likely protein trigger, of course, is gluten, because we all know that there are many people who are gluten-sensitive, but are asymptomatic, so they are totally unaware that they are gluten-sensitive, because they have no clinical symptoms to verify their sensitivity. In those cases, only proper testing, (meaning stool tests), will verify or disprove gluten sensitivity. Of course, the inflammation could also be due to casein, or soy intolerance, but those issues very rarely exist, independent of gluten sensitivity.
Does anyone see a flaw in my logic?
Issy,
In the event that this should turn out to be the case with you, please be aware that contrary to what most authorities used to claim, recent research shows that celiacs who are asymptomatic, and who do not follow the GF diet, have no greater risk of developing Non-Hodgkins lymphoma, (or any other intestinal malignancies), than anyone in the general population. There is no reason not to believe that that exclusion would also apply to anyone who is not a celiac, but who has non-celiac gluten sensitivity, (NCGS).
Tex
Good point. Back when I still had a colon, (:roll:), after I was in remission, and my gut had healed sufficiently, I could eat all the fiber I wanted, without any problems. I didn't crave it, but it didn't bother me at all. Now, of course, I have to limit it, because of a risk of a blockage, due to the ileostomy.
Thinking about this topic a bit, we know that there has to be a reason why one cannot tolerate fiber, (there's a reason for everything), and the most likely reason is chronic inflammation in the gut. In fact, unless there is a risk of blockage, due to a stenosis somewhere in the intestines, inflammation is the only reason that I can think of, that would preclude eating fiber.
That suggests that anyone who adversely reacts to fiber, is almost surely living with a chronic intestinal inflammation, caused by a protein trigger, even though they might be clinically asymptomatic to the trigger itself. The most likely protein trigger, of course, is gluten, because we all know that there are many people who are gluten-sensitive, but are asymptomatic, so they are totally unaware that they are gluten-sensitive, because they have no clinical symptoms to verify their sensitivity. In those cases, only proper testing, (meaning stool tests), will verify or disprove gluten sensitivity. Of course, the inflammation could also be due to casein, or soy intolerance, but those issues very rarely exist, independent of gluten sensitivity.
Does anyone see a flaw in my logic?
Issy,
In the event that this should turn out to be the case with you, please be aware that contrary to what most authorities used to claim, recent research shows that celiacs who are asymptomatic, and who do not follow the GF diet, have no greater risk of developing Non-Hodgkins lymphoma, (or any other intestinal malignancies), than anyone in the general population. There is no reason not to believe that that exclusion would also apply to anyone who is not a celiac, but who has non-celiac gluten sensitivity, (NCGS).
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
In my case on the question between fiber and gluten, I am pretty sure, that the gluten made the difference not the fiber. This summer I had to times a miracle recovery after starting to eat gluten free. My food than was also containing fiber (apple fiber, gluten free, can be bought in a bag, is solvable fiber, high in fiber content). At the moment I am still using this apple fiber without any problem (I am eating GF, SF, EG, DF and YF). But I still do have problems with raw veggies (no D but cramping) and some fruits, for example kiwi, black/blue/raspberries, peach. They do give me D. But not the kind of D, when my MC was active. That was a D, having to go toilet on strange times (for example during night), in morning going 5 times instead of 2 (this is always been normal for me), more liquid and having the rumbling in my tummy (the very load one). With eating some fruit, I have normal bowel movement only with looser stools. But that I would not call D (as D in MC).
I am still on med's at the moment.
I am still on med's at the moment.