Confused by conflicting diet information
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Confused by conflicting diet information
Hi all! I'm pretty new--diagnosed with CC a few months ago and got a red-carpet newbie welcome here a few weeks ago. I'm reading a lot about IBD, the Paleo Diet, and the SCD--I'm starting to digest some of it (pun intended), in terms of some of the universal no-nos. I was hoping I could share some of my process here for guidance on the next step (s), along with the following questions:
1. I've been gluten-free ish for 6 months, but in the last two weeks have really cracked down on looking for hidden gluten. Going g-f made a big difference; even had a couple of months of Normans! But I'm still in a pattern of D for a few weeks, followed by soft stool for a month or so; the attacks are certainly less intense than a few years ago when I was surviving on sourdough toast and fiber!
my question is: how rigorous are others about cross-contamination (toasters, panini maker etc.)? And how rigorous are you when the label says that the product may have been processed on machines in contact with wheat?
2. In the last week, I've eliminated diet coke ( ) and all artificial sweeteners, stopped using sweetened non-dairy creamer (in favor of almond milk and organic honey in my coffee), and I've reduced coffee intake from about 5-6 cups per day to 2-3. I noticed a slight improvement but then had ONE SCOOP of vanilla ice cream on Friday night and have been under mini-siege since; thinking I should explore dairy.
my question is: Should I eliminate both lactose and casein, and what's the difference between the two? Can I have one sensitivity w/ o the other? (I seem to be fine with low-fat, hard, and feta cheeses.)
3. I'm doing the 8 pepto tablets per day self-clinical trial for up to 8 weeks; will let you know results!
4. I'm reading a lot about grains/ sugars in general and plan to try the SCD first (as it's less restrictive than Paleo), but I'm wondering if anyone has tried a more conservative approach.
question: would it make sense to drop one grain at a time to see if that makes a difference? Biggest grain offenders in order of severity?
5. Finally, I know this is a personal decision, but I'd love to hear people's thoughts on medications: when is enough, enough? I am in my early thirties; I am a full-time teacher with dogs, a husband, and usually a ton of energy. But I am fatigued--napping two hours every evening--and
I'm wondering is there a sensible approach with meds and diet that minimizes side effects and long-term effects?
Sorry for the manifesto, but I may be too tired to get to all my points later!!
Thank you all for being here,
Scout
1. I've been gluten-free ish for 6 months, but in the last two weeks have really cracked down on looking for hidden gluten. Going g-f made a big difference; even had a couple of months of Normans! But I'm still in a pattern of D for a few weeks, followed by soft stool for a month or so; the attacks are certainly less intense than a few years ago when I was surviving on sourdough toast and fiber!
my question is: how rigorous are others about cross-contamination (toasters, panini maker etc.)? And how rigorous are you when the label says that the product may have been processed on machines in contact with wheat?
2. In the last week, I've eliminated diet coke ( ) and all artificial sweeteners, stopped using sweetened non-dairy creamer (in favor of almond milk and organic honey in my coffee), and I've reduced coffee intake from about 5-6 cups per day to 2-3. I noticed a slight improvement but then had ONE SCOOP of vanilla ice cream on Friday night and have been under mini-siege since; thinking I should explore dairy.
my question is: Should I eliminate both lactose and casein, and what's the difference between the two? Can I have one sensitivity w/ o the other? (I seem to be fine with low-fat, hard, and feta cheeses.)
3. I'm doing the 8 pepto tablets per day self-clinical trial for up to 8 weeks; will let you know results!
4. I'm reading a lot about grains/ sugars in general and plan to try the SCD first (as it's less restrictive than Paleo), but I'm wondering if anyone has tried a more conservative approach.
question: would it make sense to drop one grain at a time to see if that makes a difference? Biggest grain offenders in order of severity?
5. Finally, I know this is a personal decision, but I'd love to hear people's thoughts on medications: when is enough, enough? I am in my early thirties; I am a full-time teacher with dogs, a husband, and usually a ton of energy. But I am fatigued--napping two hours every evening--and
I'm wondering is there a sensible approach with meds and diet that minimizes side effects and long-term effects?
Sorry for the manifesto, but I may be too tired to get to all my points later!!
Thank you all for being here,
Scout
I've got high hopes, I've got high hopes;
I've got high (gluten free) apple pie in the sky hopes.
I've got high (gluten free) apple pie in the sky hopes.
There are so many differences in what people can eat because there is no one solution to CC that works for everyone.
Most doctors have no clue how to treat CC. I know of one who ONLY uses steroids as treatment since it was the first one that was used decades ago. Prednisone can be a very dangerous treatment. Just because the guy is head of gastro of a major American teaching hospital does not make him an expert on CC, in my opinion:)
On another thread someone mentions being able to eat rice cakes.. but more than two will bloat me. We are all different and we all have to be our own advocates in our treatment.
I stayed with the first gastro doc for too long... when he couldn't figure out what meds might help.. he then told me my problem was my own fault.. either it was my diet or I had psychological problems. He said not to come back until I had been evaluated by a psychiatrist. I didn't see a psychiatrist and I didn't go back.
During a near death experience from dehydration I was steered to another GI doc who correctly diagnosed me with CC. The doctor who diagnosed me left medical practice for research. Even with a diagnosis it was still hard to find a doctor who knew anything about CC!
Perseverance and dedication to finding your own way are about the only way to learn to live with CC and since it isn't curable.. at least it can be controlled for the most part.. whether you find a diet that works for you.. or through medications.
grannyh
Most doctors have no clue how to treat CC. I know of one who ONLY uses steroids as treatment since it was the first one that was used decades ago. Prednisone can be a very dangerous treatment. Just because the guy is head of gastro of a major American teaching hospital does not make him an expert on CC, in my opinion:)
On another thread someone mentions being able to eat rice cakes.. but more than two will bloat me. We are all different and we all have to be our own advocates in our treatment.
I stayed with the first gastro doc for too long... when he couldn't figure out what meds might help.. he then told me my problem was my own fault.. either it was my diet or I had psychological problems. He said not to come back until I had been evaluated by a psychiatrist. I didn't see a psychiatrist and I didn't go back.
During a near death experience from dehydration I was steered to another GI doc who correctly diagnosed me with CC. The doctor who diagnosed me left medical practice for research. Even with a diagnosis it was still hard to find a doctor who knew anything about CC!
Perseverance and dedication to finding your own way are about the only way to learn to live with CC and since it isn't curable.. at least it can be controlled for the most part.. whether you find a diet that works for you.. or through medications.
grannyh
Hi Scout,
I agree with GrannyH about having to personalize your treament. It sounds as though you're making good progress, and you may just need more time, to allow your gut to heal - it takes a lot longer than most people realize, (especially GI docs). Now to address your questions:
Some kitchen equipment is more likely to cause cross-contamination than others. You should have your own dedicated toaster, that no one else uses. You should also have your own jars of peanut butter, jelly, mayonaise, mustard, etc., because if someone touches a piece of bread with their knife or spoon, while spreading the item, and then sticks the tool back into the jar, to get some more, that jar will probably be contaminated with bread crumbs, (gluten). Never store your "stuff" where someone might work above it, and drop bread crumbs, etc., into or onto your food or utensils. Be careful about baking pans, especially, because gluten often bakes onto them, and may not be completely removed during washing. Any cooking or mixing containers that have cracks, or hard to clean crevices, are also risky to use, if they are ever used for foods that contain gluten.
Also, when the GF diet brings good results for a while, and then symptoms return, that is almost always a signal that you have additional sensitivities, that are "discovered" by your immune system, after the anti-gliadin antibodies diminish, and they no longer flood your system, (thus masking other antibodies). In order of most likely to cause problems, the main intolerances for someone with MC seem to be gluten, dairy, soy, eggs, corn, yeast, etc.
.
Lactase, (the enzyme that the body uses to split the sugar lactose), is created in the brush border region of the small intestine, and anytime enteritis is present, the production of lactase, (and eventually other enzymes), slows way down, and can even cease completely, in some cases. This causes what is known in medical circles, as temporary lactose intolerance, (though it's not a true intolerance - it's simply the inability to digest lactose). Whenever the enteritis is resolved, then lactase production usually returns to normal. IOW, virtually everyone is lactose intolerant, when their GI tract is upset, even in cases of the flu, for example. On the other hand, only those who are truly casen-sensitive, will react to casein, (IOW, a case of the flu, will not make anyone casein-sensitive).
The "worst" grains are wheat, barley, and rye, and all hybrids of these grains, and their close relatives, (they are all equally problematic), followed by oats, and then corn. Millet and amaranth are somewhere in between. Rice and quinoa are the least likely to cause problems for most people, but remember that there are always individual exceptions.
You can remove any doubts about whether or not you are sensitive to certain foods, by ordering a stool test kit form Enterolab. That usually saves time for most people, but it's not necessary, if you do the elimination diet correctly.
Tex
I agree with GrannyH about having to personalize your treament. It sounds as though you're making good progress, and you may just need more time, to allow your gut to heal - it takes a lot longer than most people realize, (especially GI docs). Now to address your questions:
You have to be very rigorous - a crumb can be enough to trigger a reaction for some people. Going low-GF, or "almost-GF", for example, may not result in any significant healing of the gut, meaning that when you went totally GF, you were probably starting from square one, in the healing process. IOW, it takes very little gluten, on an occasional basis, to keep the inflammation going, unless you are one of those who are fortunate enough that Entocort can completely control your symptoms, regardless of what you eat. Most of us are not that lucky. Whether or not I worry about the warnings about being processed on machinery that sometimes processes products containing wheat, depends on the product, and what I know about the manufacturer. Many manufacturers put those warnings on their products, just to cover their butts, but in some cases, those warnings should be heeded.Scout wrote:1. I've been gluten-free ish for 6 months, but in the last two weeks have really cracked down on looking for hidden gluten. Going g-f made a big difference; even had a couple of months of Normans! But I'm still in a pattern of D for a few weeks, followed by soft stool for a month or so; the attacks are certainly less intense than a few years ago when I was surviving on sourdough toast and fiber!
my question is: how rigorous are others about cross-contamination (toasters, panini maker etc.)? And how rigorous are you when the label says that the product may have been processed on machines in contact with wheat?
Some kitchen equipment is more likely to cause cross-contamination than others. You should have your own dedicated toaster, that no one else uses. You should also have your own jars of peanut butter, jelly, mayonaise, mustard, etc., because if someone touches a piece of bread with their knife or spoon, while spreading the item, and then sticks the tool back into the jar, to get some more, that jar will probably be contaminated with bread crumbs, (gluten). Never store your "stuff" where someone might work above it, and drop bread crumbs, etc., into or onto your food or utensils. Be careful about baking pans, especially, because gluten often bakes onto them, and may not be completely removed during washing. Any cooking or mixing containers that have cracks, or hard to clean crevices, are also risky to use, if they are ever used for foods that contain gluten.
Also, when the GF diet brings good results for a while, and then symptoms return, that is almost always a signal that you have additional sensitivities, that are "discovered" by your immune system, after the anti-gliadin antibodies diminish, and they no longer flood your system, (thus masking other antibodies). In order of most likely to cause problems, the main intolerances for someone with MC seem to be gluten, dairy, soy, eggs, corn, yeast, etc.
.
Avoiding artificial sweeteners is a very good idea, because many of us react adversely to them. Lactose is the primary sugar in milk, and casein is the primary protein. The difference is that you may not be able to properly digest lactose, anytime that you have enteritis, (intestinal inflammation), so it will pass undigested into the colon, where it ferments, creating gas, bloating, cramps, etc., but most of us here are actually sensitive to casein, (meaning that it can cause an autoimmune reaction, similar to gluten). When we are sensitive to it, it will actually create inflammation, and cause damage to the gut, much like gluten. (It has been shown to cause villus attrophy in the small intestine, similar to gluten, for some celiacs, also.)Scout wrote:2. In the last week, I've eliminated diet coke ( :crying: ) and all artificial sweeteners, stopped using sweetened non-dairy creamer (in favor of almond milk and organic honey in my coffee), and I've reduced coffee intake from about 5-6 cups per day to 2-3. I noticed a slight improvement but then had ONE SCOOP of vanilla ice cream on Friday night and have been under mini-siege since; thinking I should explore dairy.
my question is: Should I eliminate both lactose and casein, and what's the difference between the two? Can I have one sensitivity w/ o the other? (I seem to be fine with low-fat, hard, and feta cheeses.)
Lactase, (the enzyme that the body uses to split the sugar lactose), is created in the brush border region of the small intestine, and anytime enteritis is present, the production of lactase, (and eventually other enzymes), slows way down, and can even cease completely, in some cases. This causes what is known in medical circles, as temporary lactose intolerance, (though it's not a true intolerance - it's simply the inability to digest lactose). Whenever the enteritis is resolved, then lactase production usually returns to normal. IOW, virtually everyone is lactose intolerant, when their GI tract is upset, even in cases of the flu, for example. On the other hand, only those who are truly casen-sensitive, will react to casein, (IOW, a case of the flu, will not make anyone casein-sensitive).
The fact that you are taking multiple meds, plus the diet, and are wondering if you are making progress, brings up the possibility that you have something in your diet that is causing problems, (such as casein, or soy, for example), or one of the meds might be causing problems. Anytime you are taking more than one med to treat MC, if one, (or more), is causing adverse effects, it can prevent the other med/s from working, and can prevent the diet from working, and you probably won't be able to tell which one is causing the problem.Scout wrote:3. I'm doing the 8 pepto tablets per day self-clinical trial for up to 8 weeks; will let you know results!
Avoidance of grains is the reason for the paleo diet. The SCD addresses that issue also, but it allows yogurt, which is loaded with casein, so that will not work for anyone who is casein-sensitive. Other than the casein issue, the SCD is a pretty decent diet for MC. If you drop one grain at a time, (and then resume eating it, if dropping it seems to make no difference in your symptoms), the usual result will be that you will probably not learn anything, or you will reach incorrect conclusions, since you cannot achieve remission by diet, unless you avoid all our intolerances, (at the same time, not just one at a time). That's why the elimination diet is effective, while eliminating one suspect food at a time is rarely beneficial.Scout wrote:4. I'm reading a lot about grains/ sugars in general and plan to try the SCD first (as it's less restrictive than Paleo), but I'm wondering if anyone has tried a more conservative approach.
question: would it make sense to drop one grain at a time to see if that makes a difference? Biggest grain offenders in order of severity?
The "worst" grains are wheat, barley, and rye, and all hybrids of these grains, and their close relatives, (they are all equally problematic), followed by oats, and then corn. Millet and amaranth are somewhere in between. Rice and quinoa are the least likely to cause problems for most people, but remember that there are always individual exceptions.
A combination of the diet and Entocort is, (for most people with MC), the most effective way to reach remission as soon as possible. At your relatively young age, IMO, lifetime use of a corticosteroid, or any immune system supressants, would be a very bad idea. IOW, after your gut heals, you should be able to discontinue the use of any meds, provided that you have eliminated all intolerances from your diet, and you continue to keep them out.Scout wrote:5. Finally, I know this is a personal decision, but I'd love to hear people's thoughts on medications: when is enough, enough? I am in my early thirties; I am a full-time teacher with dogs, a husband, and usually a ton of energy. But I am fatigued--napping two hours every evening--and
I'm wondering is there a sensible approach with meds and diet that minimizes side effects and long-term effects?
You can remove any doubts about whether or not you are sensitive to certain foods, by ordering a stool test kit form Enterolab. That usually saves time for most people, but it's not necessary, if you do the elimination diet correctly.
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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thank you
for your responses. These are very complex issues indeed. Tex, two questions:
1. What is IOW?
2. I didn't understand what you meant about the multiple meds possibly masking one another; I am taking otc pepto, but no other meds for the MC. Did you mean the dietary approach and pepto at the same time?
Again, thank you!
scout
1. What is IOW?
2. I didn't understand what you meant about the multiple meds possibly masking one another; I am taking otc pepto, but no other meds for the MC. Did you mean the dietary approach and pepto at the same time?
Again, thank you!
scout
I've got high hopes, I've got high hopes;
I've got high (gluten free) apple pie in the sky hopes.
I've got high (gluten free) apple pie in the sky hopes.
I'm sorry - I don't know if I got you mixed up with someone else, or I just got sloppy, but for some reason or other, I was thinking that you were taking Entocort. That obviously negates the multiple med concern. There's nothing wrong with using the Pepto treatment in combination with the diet - that's the way that Dr. Fine originally intended it, and it is usually pretty effective, (about 85%), so long as you're aren't sensitive to the bismuth subsalicylate in the Pepto-Bismol. Theoretically, once the Pepto regimen is over, you shouldn't need any further meds - simply avoiding your food intolerances should be sufficient for maintaining remission, indefinitely.
"IOW" stands for "In Other Words".
Here's a listing of abbreviations frequently used on this board:
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=845
You're most welcome,
Tex
"IOW" stands for "In Other Words".
Here's a listing of abbreviations frequently used on this board:
http://www.perskyfarms.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=845
You're most welcome,
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
- wonderwoman
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- Location: Sun City, AZ
Tex, you are not only a saint, but also a walking encyclopedia. How do you retain all the knowledge you possess. I can't remember diddley squat! I spend soooo much time reading all the posts on this site which takes a lot of time. I can't imagine how many hours you must spend helping everyone to the extent you do. I think we should rename you Saint Tex.
I know how much I have appreciated the help I received here. My heart bleeds for all those out there who are struggling with theses disorders and can't find help from their doctors.
One quick note about the visit I had with my GI this week. I asked him if I should continue the Balsalazide Rx and he said Yes, I would be on it for the rest of my life. He then said it was a steroid. I didn't want to argue with him, but was sure it wasn't. I left and walked down to the pharmacy to pick up my refill and asked the pharmacist if this RX was a steroid and was told NO. Chalk up one more reason why I am looking for another GI.
His next remark was, no one has ever died from this disease. I suppose he was trying to make me feel good, however if it is not treated, I bet you could eventually die from malnutrition or some other complication of it.
I know how much I have appreciated the help I received here. My heart bleeds for all those out there who are struggling with theses disorders and can't find help from their doctors.
One quick note about the visit I had with my GI this week. I asked him if I should continue the Balsalazide Rx and he said Yes, I would be on it for the rest of my life. He then said it was a steroid. I didn't want to argue with him, but was sure it wasn't. I left and walked down to the pharmacy to pick up my refill and asked the pharmacist if this RX was a steroid and was told NO. Chalk up one more reason why I am looking for another GI.
His next remark was, no one has ever died from this disease. I suppose he was trying to make me feel good, however if it is not treated, I bet you could eventually die from malnutrition or some other complication of it.
Charlotte
The food you eat can be either the safest and most powerful form of medicine, or the slowest form of poison. Ann Wigmore
The food you eat can be either the safest and most powerful form of medicine, or the slowest form of poison. Ann Wigmore
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- Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 5:45 am
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I second that Saint Tex nod I think I'm going to try the lab route. And I made my husband read your post, and I'm finally getting my own toaster, cookie sheet! He's from Houston, so from one to another, he trusts another Texan
Charlotte:
I am stunned by how fast and loose docs play with this stuff, but I guess I shouldn't be; as a member of AA, I know how freely some doctors prescribe addictive drugs and how little they understand about recovery. Also, before diagnosis, two docs told me I had IBS--so my 'treatment' was in fact making me sicker--and my first colonoscopy doc told me he didn't need to take any biopsies b/c everything "looked good." And I thought he must now, but the hospital got a new surgeon and HE is the one who insisted I get biopsied. He admits he doesn't know much about CC but wants me to stay off gluten--b/c he trusts my experience--and to try other diet stuff and report back to him before taking any medication.
-scout
Charlotte:
I am stunned by how fast and loose docs play with this stuff, but I guess I shouldn't be; as a member of AA, I know how freely some doctors prescribe addictive drugs and how little they understand about recovery. Also, before diagnosis, two docs told me I had IBS--so my 'treatment' was in fact making me sicker--and my first colonoscopy doc told me he didn't need to take any biopsies b/c everything "looked good." And I thought he must now, but the hospital got a new surgeon and HE is the one who insisted I get biopsied. He admits he doesn't know much about CC but wants me to stay off gluten--b/c he trusts my experience--and to try other diet stuff and report back to him before taking any medication.
-scout
I've got high hopes, I've got high hopes;
I've got high (gluten free) apple pie in the sky hopes.
I've got high (gluten free) apple pie in the sky hopes.
Charlotte and Scout,
Thanks for the kind words - now I'll have to buy a larger hat size.
Wow Charlotte! That was definitely a bad mistake by your GI doc. (And the same can be said about Scout's prior GI doc. )
He's wrong about the mortality risk, also. Most websites, (including those of some of the most prestigious medical institutions, and including articles written by well-known "authorities" in the medical field), virtually always feel obligated to include a comment about the "fact" that the disease is non-fatal, and always runs a benign course. That's not true, and a little research, involving case studies, will turn up reports of fatal outcomes. Of course, this would be classified under death due to complications connected with the disease, but many members here, have had serious encounters with dehydration, requiring repeated emergency room visits, and there are reports of cases on record, with fatal outcomes. Here's an example - I'm pretty sure there are others, that could be located, with a little searching, (of course, most GI docs are too busy to spend time researching what they tell their patients. )
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15228447
Tex
Thanks for the kind words - now I'll have to buy a larger hat size.
Wow Charlotte! That was definitely a bad mistake by your GI doc. (And the same can be said about Scout's prior GI doc. )
He's wrong about the mortality risk, also. Most websites, (including those of some of the most prestigious medical institutions, and including articles written by well-known "authorities" in the medical field), virtually always feel obligated to include a comment about the "fact" that the disease is non-fatal, and always runs a benign course. That's not true, and a little research, involving case studies, will turn up reports of fatal outcomes. Of course, this would be classified under death due to complications connected with the disease, but many members here, have had serious encounters with dehydration, requiring repeated emergency room visits, and there are reports of cases on record, with fatal outcomes. Here's an example - I'm pretty sure there are others, that could be located, with a little searching, (of course, most GI docs are too busy to spend time researching what they tell their patients. )
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15228447
Tex
It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.